Originally posted by pym-ftw
I haven't read through the last few pages but a hearty lol to base Superman overpowering WBH... Especially "casually"
Naah, thats one of the things they are thinking along with Superman being able to destroy the eastern seaboard with a casual footstep. A Superman footstep like this...
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16004683/blackrockbats5.JPG.html
And we know what happened when WBH and She Rulk did this...
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16670071/Supe80_073.jpg.html
😄
Originally posted by Delta1938I don't even think you know what you're arguing anymore.
Waverider states how B13 remade the "fabric of the universe" in his image. Nothing indicates there were Probes around, and based on Waverider's statement, it looks YJ was followed through time. Not that there were Imperiex Probes around they stumbled across them.
Even if you are completely right, how does that prove that it was Imperiex?
Even if... how was it Imperiex?
The thing was stated to be a Probe. The thing was shown to be growing. The thing was a Probe.
It doesn't matter if there were two Probes, three Probes, or 30 Probes. It doesn't matter if they were tracked through time. It doesn't matter if Imperiex was dipping his balls in peanut butter.
All that matters is the thing that grew big, was a Probe.
Your entire argument is based around that. Now go ahead and prove it was actually Imperiex.
Originally posted by Delta1938Here's another one then.
That's not answering the question.
Who cares? Alternate futures can do whatever they want. It doesn't mean anything that happens will branch into them... especially that future.
Hell, it outright states "Just one possible future. Nothing is set in stone"
Originally posted by Delta1938I agree.
Missed the panel with Superman right by his hand when I looked at the issue yesterday. I thought it was an energy blast based on the explosion through the building.
You completely and utterly missed and misinterpreted that.
Originally posted by Delta1938Yes, Brainiac wrapping Superman up like bubble wrap with his appendages after Superman unloads on him has nothing to do with strength.
Not sure what these have to do since they don't contradict what I wrote nor have anything to do with the point I made in the first place.
Originally posted by Delta1938The punch should have lost most of it's force since it looked to be at the very end of Brainiac's punch judging from where it landed.
What does it being away from his face have to do with anything? And yeah, he got knocked away from a double handed attack.
Superman gets knocked away and is helplessly getting knocked away for an entire page. Doesn't matter.
Superman catches a punch (and then gets knocked away). This is the only thing that matters.
How does this work exactly?
Originally posted by Delta1938
I was referring to pure strength, and a punch catch is a sign of superiority in that department. Nowhere did I argue Superman against Brainiac-13's overall power.
*snip*
Billy catches a flying punch and stops Superman:
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/271_Superman_v2_216_Page_05_Image_0001.jpg
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/271_Superman_v2_216_Page_06_Image_0001.jpg
Wonder Woman stops a pissed off Superman's punch while it goes through her hand in a comic somewhat connected to OWAW. Obviously we can conclude Wonder Woman was stronger, because if that comic showed anything, it was that WW was stronger than Superman...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/fangirl102/wonderwoman_175_29.jpg
Vixen stops flying Superman's punch cold, though a little bit different:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/6428/2152219-armored_beetle.jpg
You know what, maybe I can subscribe to your theory here. Maybe catching a punch is a sure sign of superiority. Maybe Superman was definitely stronger than Brainiac, but you know what, that's alright with me because it means Wonder Woman was stronger than Superman...
But yes, catching a punch in one panel means everything when you actually fail to show superior strength the rest of the fight... or the other 3 fights... or any other panel.
I mean, I could see your point if Superman actually followed up that showing by showing superior strength, but when he just gets knocked away right away, and then gets ramburglered in 3 other fights? Completely pointless assertion to make.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Which I never argued that example.
*reply to post to fill up character limit*
Originally posted by Delta1938Sure you would. You're arguing that one panel out of four fights shows superiority right now.
No, I would not. I've never argued that Superman's stronger than Lobo or Orion based on Supes knocking Lobo into orbit or Orion part way across the continent. This looks to me like a discrediting tactic, instead of going against my argument itself. I would ask you kindly not to resort to stuff like that.
But you don't even have an argument though, since your entire argument is based on an alternate future of Brainiac incorporated throughout a vast amount of the universe, and you're twisting it to be Imperiex Prime instead of a Probe... if you want to get down to the basics.
If you get rid of that, everything else you say fails entirely. No more Imperiex Prime level strength, no more Superman being superior to Y2K Brainiac mattered, and no more mindset talk. It all crumbles once you remove your claim.
But yes, get defensive when I don't go against your "argument" when you can't even prove the most important part of your argument in the first place.
Originally posted by Delta1938I was crawling on the floor dying yesterday when I made all my points.
I was rather sleep deprived yesterday and I know I could've done a better job of making my argument instead of you thinking I claimed Superman consistently was showing superiority over B13 everywhere.
I never said you claimed he was consistently showing superiority. I just said that he never showed superiority in that arc. And I covered every fight.
Originally posted by Delta1938I think your example makes absolutely no sense is what I think of it.
You claimed Superman's powers don't jump "that much" without a power-up. What do you think going to powerless and somewhat superhuman to fighting Orion levels would be? A small jump?
At that point in time in that arc, Superman was at his "OWAW SUPERMAN" mindset. He was never powerless, or even close enough to compare... what an irrelevant point to bring up.
Superman was already operating at extremely high levels. You figure he was somehow holding back so much that his powers can jump up to Imperiex Prime + possibly (because that's a safety for the argument) another Imperiex Prime from Probe fighting levels?
Superman wasn't even in the Doomsday teamup mindset. He was in the same mindset he was during the rest of the arc. His strength isn't jumping up that much.
Originally posted by Delta1938You're dismissing it because it's off panel. When we know they were fighting h2h/energy blasts, so there's nothing more to know. It could have taken 2 hours, or 2 seconds. Fact of the matter is it was one Probe. After his breakthrough moment in comics of "dynamic strength".
What by "Superman's own words?" That he said a broken arm is the first thing he felt all day? Unless you think it happened quickly and almost immediately before the scene, I'm not seeing what that's arguing.
Even after his Doomsday Team Up he was capable of getting his arm broken by a Probe. Which strongly hints that in that same mindset, he's not going to suddenly match Imperiex Prime's strength level.
Originally posted by Delta1938You certainly stated it enough. And that changes nothing anyway. Superman beating up Probes in an issue doesn't mean he can suddenly match an Imperiex Plus being in strength.
Actually it was simply one example of Superman having a big leap in power, and I never argued it WAS B13 and Imperiex Prime stacked, simply that it was one possibility. You're assuming I argued it was stacked.
Originally posted by Delta1938
He talks about the power of Imperiex is now his own. This can either be taken as he's added Imperiex Prime's power on top of his, or he's merely using it as an energy source to enhance his own power. Either way, he'd be immensely powerful. And Superman still matches him in strength
Originally posted by Delta1938
You would have to prove that Gardner is on a strength level greater than Imperiex Prime. Brainiac-13 matched Imperiex in hand-to-hand, and when Superman locked-up with him, B13 was amped from his connection to Warworld, its connection to Apokolips and the energy he took from Imperiex Prime(whether stacking Imperiex's stats to his own, or simply enhancing his own via Imperiex Prime's energy). I already gave some examples to establish the two.
Apparently you're not content with Superman matching an equal, and then ripping it apart as Sundipped. No, it has to be something else. Also, your point means that Sundipped Superman ripped apart a being with Imperiex Prime's strength (plus being amped by another Imperiex level force) effortlessly... which I'm sure you're OK with, but considering Brainiac just made a shit ton more Brainiacs, it's very questionable to say the least.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I don't even think you know what you're arguing anymore.Even if you are completely right, how does that prove that it was Imperiex?
Even if... how was it Imperiex?
The thing was stated to be a Probe. The thing was shown to be growing. The thing was a Probe.
It doesn't matter if there were two Probes, three Probes, or 30 Probes. It doesn't matter if they were tracked through time. It doesn't matter if Imperiex was dipping his balls in peanut butter.
All that matters is the thing that grew big, was a Probe.Your entire argument is based around that. Now go ahead and prove it was actually Imperiex.
Here's another one then.
Who cares? Alternate futures can do whatever they want. It doesn't mean anything that happens will branch into them... especially that future.
Hell, it outright states "Just one possible future. Nothing is set in stone"
I agree.
You completely and utterly missed and misinterpreted that.
Yes, Brainiac wrapping Superman up like bubble wrap with his appendages after Superman unloads on him has nothing to do with strength.
The punch should have lost most of it's force since it looked to be at the very end of Brainiac's punch judging from where it landed.
Superman gets knocked away and is helplessly getting knocked away for an entire page. Doesn't matter.
Superman catches a punch (and then gets knocked away). This is the only thing that matters.
How does this work exactly?
OK. So catching a punch is a sure sign of superiority in strength going by your own words?
Well, this solves a lot of questions like "Is Billy, Wonder Woman, and Vixen stronger than Superman?"Billy catches a flying punch and stops Superman:
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/271_Superman_v2_216_Page_05_Image_0001.jpg
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/271_Superman_v2_216_Page_06_Image_0001.jpgWonder Woman stops a pissed off Superman's punch while it goes through her hand in a comic somewhat connected to OWAW. Obviously we can conclude Wonder Woman was stronger, because if that comic showed anything, it was that WW was stronger than Superman...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/fangirl102/wonderwoman_175_29.jpgVixen stops flying Superman's punch cold, though a little bit different:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/6428/2152219-armored_beetle.jpgYou know what, maybe I can subscribe to your theory here. Maybe catching a punch is a sure sign of superiority. Maybe Superman was definitely stronger than Brainiac, but you know what, that's alright with me because it means Wonder Woman was stronger than Superman...
But yes, catching a punch in one panel means everything when you actually fail to show superior strength the rest of the fight... or the other 3 fights... or any other panel.
I mean, I could see your point if Superman actually followed up that showing by showing superior strength, but when he just gets knocked away right away, and then gets ramburglered in 3 other fights? Completely pointless assertion to make.*reply to post to fill up character limit*
Sure you would. You're arguing that one panel out of four fights shows superiority right now.
But you don't even have an argument though, since your entire argument is based on an alternate future of Brainiac incorporated throughout a vast amount of the universe, and you're twisting it to be Imperiex Prime instead of a Probe... if you want to get down to the basics.
If you get rid of that, everything else you say fails entirely. No more Imperiex Prime level strength, no more Superman being superior to Y2K Brainiac mattered, and no more mindset talk. It all crumbles once you remove your claim.
But yes, get defensive when I don't go against your "argument" when you can't even prove the most important part of your argument in the first place.
I was crawling on the floor dying yesterday when I made all my points.
I never said you claimed he was consistently showing superiority. I just said that he never showed superiority in that arc. And I covered every fight.
I think your example makes absolutely no sense is what I think of it.
At that point in time in that arc, Superman was at his "OWAW SUPERMAN" mindset. He was never powerless, or even close enough to compare... what an irrelevant point to bring up.
Superman was already operating at extremely high levels. You figure he was somehow holding back so much that his powers can jump up to Imperiex Prime + possibly (because that's a safety for the argument) another Imperiex Prime from Probe fighting levels?
Superman wasn't even in the Doomsday teamup mindset. He was in the same mindset he was during the rest of the arc. His strength isn't jumping up that much.
You're dismissing it because it's off panel. When we know they were fighting h2h/energy blasts, so there's nothing more to know. It could have taken 2 hours, or 2 seconds. Fact of the matter is it was one Probe. After his breakthrough moment in comics of "dynamic strength".
Even after his Doomsday Team Up he was capable of getting his arm broken by a Probe. Which strongly hints that in that same mindset, he's not going to suddenly match Imperiex Prime's strength level.
You certainly stated it enough. And that changes nothing anyway. Superman beating up Probes in an issue doesn't mean he can suddenly match an Imperiex Plus being in strength.
Apparently you're not content with Superman matching an equal, and then ripping it apart as Sundipped. No, it has to be something else. Also, your point means that Sundipped Superman ripped apart a being with Imperiex Prime's strength (plus being amped by another Imperiex level force) effortlessly... which I'm sure you're OK with, but considering Brainiac just made a shit ton more Brainiacs, it's very questionable to say the least.
Dipping his balls in peanut butter. 😆 😆
Originally posted by Delta1938
Well, Enzeru was sure entertaining. If he wants to debate feats I'm up for it if he comes back.....and doesn't get himself banned the way he's going.I know how you like to downplay the Warworld instance. How you argued it somehow proved Superman doesn't have dynamic strength(like anybody was arguing his powers are truly limitless as long as he has the right mindset) while either leaving-out or being unaware that it was far more than planet moving.
But hey, how about I show you what Superman was doing before the Sun-Dip?
We all know Imperiex Probes were stronger than most Top-Tiers. So we know Imperiex Prime himself/itself would be far beyond them in strength. Here, around the end of time, Brainiac-13 one-shot one by stepping on it. And was fighting Imperiex Prime hand-to-hand.
http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Brainiac-13/Time_Stream_Fight
Now flash back to the present, when Brainiac-13 was connected to Warworld, and had taken Imperiex Prime's energy. He talks about the power of Imperiex is now his own. This can either be taken as he's added Imperiex Prime's power on top of his, or he's merely using it as an energy source to enhance his own power. Either way, he'd be immensely powerful. And Superman still matches him in strength, for a little while before he decides to go into the Sun.
So.....he did this before a Sun-Dip so great he was emitting plasma.
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftOwned.
I don't even think you know what you're arguing anymore.Even if you are completely right, how does that prove that it was Imperiex?
Even if... how was it Imperiex?
The thing was stated to be a Probe. The thing was shown to be growing. The thing was a Probe.
It doesn't matter if there were two Probes, three Probes, or 30 Probes. It doesn't matter if they were tracked through time. It doesn't matter if Imperiex was dipping his balls in peanut butter.
All that matters is the thing that grew big, was a Probe.Your entire argument is based around that. Now go ahead and prove it was actually Imperiex.
Here's another one then.
Who cares? Alternate futures can do whatever they want. It doesn't mean anything that happens will branch into them... especially that future.
Hell, it outright states "Just one possible future. Nothing is set in stone"
I agree.
You completely and utterly missed and misinterpreted that.
Yes, Brainiac wrapping Superman up like bubble wrap with his appendages after Superman unloads on him has nothing to do with strength.
The punch should have lost most of it's force since it looked to be at the very end of Brainiac's punch judging from where it landed.
Superman gets knocked away and is helplessly getting knocked away for an entire page. Doesn't matter.
Superman catches a punch (and then gets knocked away). This is the only thing that matters.
How does this work exactly?
OK. So catching a punch is a sure sign of superiority in strength going by your own words?
Well, this solves a lot of questions like "Is Billy, Wonder Woman, and Vixen stronger than Superman?"Billy catches a flying punch and stops Superman:
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/271_Superman_v2_216_Page_05_Image_0001.jpg
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/271_Superman_v2_216_Page_06_Image_0001.jpgWonder Woman stops a pissed off Superman's punch while it goes through her hand in a comic somewhat connected to OWAW. Obviously we can conclude Wonder Woman was stronger, because if that comic showed anything, it was that WW was stronger than Superman...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/fangirl102/wonderwoman_175_29.jpgVixen stops flying Superman's punch cold, though a little bit different:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/6428/2152219-armored_beetle.jpgYou know what, maybe I can subscribe to your theory here. Maybe catching a punch is a sure sign of superiority. Maybe Superman was definitely stronger than Brainiac, but you know what, that's alright with me because it means Wonder Woman was stronger than Superman...
But yes, catching a punch in one panel means everything when you actually fail to show superior strength the rest of the fight... or the other 3 fights... or any other panel.
I mean, I could see your point if Superman actually followed up that showing by showing superior strength, but when he just gets knocked away right away, and then gets ramburglered in 3 other fights? Completely pointless assertion to make.*reply to post to fill up character limit*
Sure you would. You're arguing that one panel out of four fights shows superiority right now.
But you don't even have an argument though, since your entire argument is based on an alternate future of Brainiac incorporated throughout a vast amount of the universe, and you're twisting it to be Imperiex Prime instead of a Probe... if you want to get down to the basics.
If you get rid of that, everything else you say fails entirely. No more Imperiex Prime level strength, no more Superman being superior to Y2K Brainiac mattered, and no more mindset talk. It all crumbles once you remove your claim.
But yes, get defensive when I don't go against your "argument" when you can't even prove the most important part of your argument in the first place.
I was crawling on the floor dying yesterday when I made all my points.
I never said you claimed he was consistently showing superiority. I just said that he never showed superiority in that arc. And I covered every fight.
I think your example makes absolutely no sense is what I think of it.
At that point in time in that arc, Superman was at his "OWAW SUPERMAN" mindset. He was never powerless, or even close enough to compare... what an irrelevant point to bring up.
Superman was already operating at extremely high levels. You figure he was somehow holding back so much that his powers can jump up to Imperiex Prime + possibly (because that's a safety for the argument) another Imperiex Prime from Probe fighting levels?
Superman wasn't even in the Doomsday teamup mindset. He was in the same mindset he was during the rest of the arc. His strength isn't jumping up that much.
You're dismissing it because it's off panel. When we know they were fighting h2h/energy blasts, so there's nothing more to know. It could have taken 2 hours, or 2 seconds. Fact of the matter is it was one Probe. After his breakthrough moment in comics of "dynamic strength".
Even after his Doomsday Team Up he was capable of getting his arm broken by a Probe. Which strongly hints that in that same mindset, he's not going to suddenly match Imperiex Prime's strength level.
You certainly stated it enough. And that changes nothing anyway. Superman beating up Probes in an issue doesn't mean he can suddenly match an Imperiex Plus being in strength.
Apparently you're not content with Superman matching an equal, and then ripping it apart as Sundipped. No, it has to be something else. Also, your point means that Sundipped Superman ripped apart a being with Imperiex Prime's strength (plus being amped by another Imperiex level force) effortlessly... which I'm sure you're OK with, but considering Brainiac just made a shit ton more Brainiacs, it's very questionable to say the least.
Originally posted by quanchi112
👆Or else he doesn't know what he word means.
Again, an unrestrained Superman has no mental blocks.
A Superman with no mental blocks is not a "Base" Superman.
After CRUSHING you in the Dr. Fate VS Odin thread, I know you are seeking shelter wherever you can find it.
NEVER, test the King of Canon!
Originally posted by pym-ftwYes because he has never displayed how truly powerful he is when he doesn't hold back, right? Because we shouldn't give him credit for ALL his abilities if they're not always displayed at the same time, right? Wrong.
And you have to disregard all his portrayals to get to that version of forum Superman
Originally posted by -Pr-You're a wall of text.
Holy walls of text...
Also, unrestrained Superman isn't some speed God. Those are rare cases. Unrestrained Superman is a "I'll ****ing punch you straight in the face and there's nothing you can do about it" type of guy.
I could see him getting to 9, but I could also see him stopping at six. Meh. Either way I can't see him beating Pakbreaker Hulk. That calls for sundipping time IMO.
