Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You're a wall of text.Also, unrestrained Superman isn't some speed God. Those are rare cases. Unrestrained Superman is a "I'll ****ing punch you straight in the face and there's nothing you can do about it" type of guy.
I could see him getting to 9, but I could also see him stopping at six. Meh. Either way I can't see him beating Pakbreaker Hulk. That calls for sundipping time IMO.
Honestly, I haven't thought much about the match itself, so you could be right.
And you're right, he isn't some sort of speed god. It's also true, though, that he can and has used some measure of speed when his mental blocks have been off.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynOr you can see he is all out. Basically, the mental blocks thing just proves it is really difficult for Superman to go all out compared to other heroes.
Again, an unrestrained Superman has no mental blocks.A Superman with no mental blocks is not a "Base" Superman.
After CRUSHING you in the Dr. Fate VS Odin thread, I know you are seeking shelter wherever you can find it.
NEVER, test the King of Canon!
You'd better hope I don't go back into that thread.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynI never understood why this completely unextraordinary and generic comic fact that is applicable to everyone is dropped so often when it comes to Superman discussions as if were some sort of distinction that separates him from other characters. Everybody from Hal Jordan to Jubilee to Airwave to Galactus shares this trait.
WhenSuperman[insert any comic character] unleashes that means there are no longer any mental blocks of his power. When these mental blocks are removed his power is significantly increased.
Even people without superpowers share this trait, like Cassandra or Shang Chi who decides to use lethal combat when the kiddie gloves are taken off. This is obvious. So obvious, it's almost pointless.
Originally posted by ODG
I never understood why this completely unextraordinary and generic comic fact that is applicable to everyone is dropped so often when it comes to Superman discussions as if were some sort of distinction that separates him from other characters. Everybody from Hal Jordan to Jubilee to Airwave to Galactus shares this trait.Even people without superpowers share this trait, like Cassandra or Shang Chi who decides to use lethal combat when the kiddie gloves are taken off. This is obvious. So obvious, it's almost pointless.
Your examples of Cassandra, Shang-Chi and Hal have absolutely no connection to my statement in reference of Superman.
Cassandra and Shang-Chi using lethal force is not indicative of their becoming more powerful. Hal went insane when his city was destroyed and became more ruthless in combat. He only gained more power after absorbing the energy of the fallen and the Battery.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynWhen Hal doesn't hold back, he lets loose a Krona-buster. When Jubilee stops holding back, she detonates huge amounts of matter on an atomic scale. When Shang Chi stops holding back, he tears people to pieces. When Thor stops holding back, he destroys Durok with a godblast from his person. When Spider-Man stops holding back, he supports a building.
Your examples of Cassandra, Shang-Chi and Hal have absolutely no connection to my statement in reference of Superman.Cassandra and Shang-Chi using lethal force is not indicative of their becoming [B]more powerful
. Hal went insane when his city was destroyed and became more ruthless in combat. He only gained more power after absorbing the energy of the fallen and the Battery. [/B]
I am astounded by the tunnel-vision being used here. Nobody argues that Superman isn't more formidable and/or doesn't output more power when he stops holding back. But that's the same for every phucking comic character in the history of comics whether it be Electro, Orion, Wolverine, or Robin.
Originally posted by ODG
I never understood why this completely unextraordinary and generic comic fact that is applicable to everyone is dropped so often when it comes to Superman discussions as if were some sort of distinction that separates him from other characters. Everybody from Hal Jordan to Jubilee to Airwave to Galactus shares this trait.Even people without superpowers share this trait, like Cassandra or Shang Chi who decides to use lethal combat when the kiddie gloves are taken off. This is obvious. So obvious, it's almost pointless.
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Exactly. I said this a couple of pages back.
Originally posted by ODG
When Hal doesn't hold back, he lets loose a Krona-buster. When Jubilee stops holding back, she detonates huge amounts of matter on an atomic scale. When Shang Chi stops holding back, he tears people to pieces. When Thor stops holding back, he destroys Durok with a godblast from his person. When Spider-Man stops holding back, he supports a building.I am astounded by the tunnel-vision being used here. Nobody argues that Superman isn't more formidable and/or doesn't output more power when he stops holding back. But that's the same for every phucking comic character in the history of comics whether it be Electro, Orion, Wolverine, or Robin.
You're missing the point.
The beginning stats for Shang-Chi, Jubilee, Hal and Spider-Man are not augmented by a change in disposition. Shang-chi could've always used the death touch at the beginning of the brawl. Jubilee could've made a Christmas tree out of a small state at the start. Hal could've gone Krona killer from the get go.
These are elements of plot that we are all used to.
The only example that is comprable to Superman here is Thor under a specific circumstance.
Thor entering Warrior Madness has definitive increases in power that are consistent and NOT plot driven.
Originally posted by ODG
When Hal doesn't hold back, he lets loose a Krona-buster. When Jubilee stops holding back, she detonates huge amounts of matter on an atomic scale. When Shang Chi stops holding back, he tears people to pieces. When Thor stops holding back, he destroys Durok with a godblast from his person. When Spider-Man stops holding back, he supports a building.I am astounded by the tunnel-vision being used here. Nobody argues that Superman isn't more formidable and/or doesn't output more power when he stops holding back. But that's the same for every phucking comic character in the history of comics whether it be Electro, Orion, Wolverine, or Robin.
Originally posted by carver9
👆Exactly. I said this a couple of pages back.
So you're agreeing with him, then?
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You're missing the point.The beginning stats for Shang-Chi, Jubilee, Hal and Spider-Man are not augmented by a change in disposition. Shang-chi could've always used the death touch at the beginning of the brawl. Jubilee could've made a Christmas tree out of a small state at the start. Hal could've gone Krona killer from the get go.
These are elements of plot that we are all used to.
The only example that is comprable to Superman here is Thor under a specific circumstance.
Thor entering Warrior Madness has definitive increases in power that are consistent and NOT plot driven.
Where are.you getting this from?
@Pr,
Yes, I agree with him.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynMy basic stats go up when I feel a surge of adrenaline. I'm faster, I'm stronger, my reaction speed is amped, my tolerance to pain is lessened. When Shang-Chi's, Jubilee's, Hal's and Spider-Man's mindsets are changed and they stop holding back, their power, their lethality, their performance, their strength, it changes. So you're not noting a distinction worth a difference.
You're missing the point.The beginning stats for Shang-Chi, Jubilee, Hal and Spider-Man are not augmented by a change in disposition. Shang-chi could've always used the death touch at the beginning of the brawl. Jubilee could've made a Christmas tree out of a small state at the start. Hal could've gone Krona killer from the get go.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynSo what you're saying is Superman plots are exceptionally different from any other comic character who stops holding back. Ok.
These are elements of plot that we are all used to.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynWell, I'm pretty sure I'm striking your position full-on with the hypocrisy bat. But you don't care.
The only example that is comprable to Superman here is Thor under a specific circumstance.Thor entering Warrior Madness has definitive increases in power that are consistent and NOT plot driven.
So, whatever. Keep arguing that Superman's one of the rare characters in comics whose formidability, powers, and/or stats change when they stop holding back.
Originally posted by ODG
My basic stats go up when I feel a surge of adrenaline. I'm faster, I'm stronger, my reaction speed is amped, my tolerance to pain is lessened. When Shang-Chi's, Jubilee's, Hal's and Spider-Man's mindsets are changed and they stop holding back, their power, their lethality, their performance, their strength, it changes. So you're not noting a distinction worth a difference. So what you're saying is Superman plots are exceptionally different from any other comic character who stops holding back. Ok. Well, I'm pretty sure I'm striking your position full-on with the hypocrisy bat. But you don't care.So, whatever. Keep arguing that Superman's one of the rare characters in comics whose formidability, powers, and/or stats change when they stop holding back.
The OUR WORLDS AT WAR arc refutes every aspect of your argument presented here.
A "Surge" in the instances you've cited are in no way comprable to the gain in power Superman has in the same circumstances.
How many classes are Jubilee, Spider-Man, and Shang-Chi advancing in power with these "Surges"?
How long have they sustained these increases in power?
Superman went from struggling with a single Imperiex probe, to smashing scores of probes with ease for an extended period of time.
That isn't a "Surge" that is a character entering another tier of power.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynAs opposed to every single comic that's been published where a character stops holding back and inexplicably achieves performances and feats beyond what they were capable of beforehand.
The OUR WORLDS AT WAR arc refutes every aspect of your argument presented here.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynOnly if you ignore every comic that's ever been published.
A "Surge" in the instances you've cited are in no way comprable to the gain in power Superman has in the same circumstances.How many classes are Jubilee, Spider-Man, and Shang-Chi advancing in power with these "Surges"?
How long have they sustained these increases in power?
Beyond the class they were previously. Just like Superman.
As long as the plot demanded it. Just like Superman.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynThor went from taking hours to destroy a single All-Black hound, to destroying scores of them simultaneously, not to mention absorbing the Godbomb. Wolverine went from being stomped by Creed solo, to wrecking Lady Deathstrike, Lord Deathstrike, Sauron, Bloodscream, Roughhouse, Slug, Silver Samurai, Daken, Wildchild, Tigershark, Mystique, Sabretooth and dozens of miscellaneous villains. Thing has gone from being humiliated by single Doombot to crushing scores of them.
Superman went from struggling with a single Imperiex probe, to smashing scores of probes with ease for an extended period of time.That isn't a "Surge" that is a character entering another tier of power.
Why in the world do you think Superman can never benefit from reverse-ninja theory like pretty much every character ever in comics? Scratch that. Obvious question has obvious answer.
Originally posted by ODG
As opposed to every single comic that's been published where a character stops holding back and inexplicably achieves performances and feats beyond what they were capable of beforehand. Only if you ignore every comic that's ever been published.Beyond the class they were previously. Just like Superman.
As long as the plot demanded it. Just like Superman. Thor went from taking hours to destroy a single All-Black hound, to destroying scores of them simultaneously, not to mention absorbing the Godbomb. Wolverine went from being stomped by Creed solo, to wrecking Lady Deathstrike, Lord Deathstrike, Sauron, Bloodscream, Roughhouse, Slug, Silver Samurai, Daken, Wildchild, Tigershark, Mystique, Sabretooth and dozens of miscellaneous villains. Thing has gone from being humiliated by single Doombot to crushing scores of them.
Why in the world do you think Superman can never benefit from reverse-ninja theory like pretty much every character ever in comics? Scratch that. Obvious question has obvious answer.
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