No, dudes, adamantium cannot be cut by a lightsaber.
There's no if ands or buts about it. It simply cannot be cut.
Using movie feats alone, it cannot be cut by a lightsaber.
If we use the canon EU, it only makes the case all the more stronger.
There is no longer a debate on whether or not a lightsaber can cut adamantium. I have destroyed the idea. It doesn't even scratch it.
Just kidding, man, but EU doesnt count here.
The battle begins. Maul force lifts Wolvie into the air, hurls him several feet away, then force chokes him to death.
Oh wait, Maul is never shown employing these powers. OK. On the same note, Adamantium is never shown resisting a lightsaber.
See how that works? Adamantium is the hardest metal in Wolverines universe. Phirk metal is the hardest metal in the SW universe. Doesnt take rocket science to figure that Phrik metal pwns adamantium in terms of durability. More advanced universe, more advanced metals, more advanced technology.
Adamantium cannot be penetrated by any other solid object.
However, a lightsaber is not exactly solid. It is a grouping of accelerated particles. It doesn't so much cut as it simultaneously separates and overheats the component molecules of any object it comes into contact with.
What does this tell you?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The battle begins. Maul force lifts Wolvie into the air, hurls him several feet away, then force chokes him to death.
You do know that it's impossible to force choke him to death, don't you?
On top of that, Maul never used those powers. Wait, you cover that.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Oh wait, Maul is never shown employing these powers. OK. On the same note, Adamantium is never shown resisting a lightsaber.
Indeed.
But regular blast door metal is shown resisting it.
I've covered this in vivid detail. There's no debate anymore on whether or not a lightsaber can cut through adamantium. Origins provides us with more than enough information to finally say, 100%, that it cannot. Before that, we had the EU. In cases of versus matches involving Star Wars, if something isn't known for sure, but is explained in the EU AND the EU doesn't contradict the movies, they are permissible. For example, there are metals in the EU that are not as strong as adamantium but they can resist a lightsaber, some quite well.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
See how that works? Adamantium is the hardest metal in Wolverines universe. Phirk metal is the hardest metal in the SW universe. Doesnt take rocket science to figure that Phrik metal pwns adamantium in terms of durability. More advanced universe, more advanced metals, more advanced technology.
It is arguable that Phrik is the hardest. It is an ore where as adamantium is a specially designed alloy made with an extremely complex process that is almost impossible to recreate.
Simple ore that can be mined versus highly technologically advanced metal that is almost impossible to create.
hmm
Let's see..
Ah. Yes. Adamantium is superior, technological, to both Phrik and Mandalorian iron.
In addition, it is superior to it in durability, strength, almost completely resistant to sublimation, heat resistant, and an extremely small amount of it exists.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Adamantium cannot be penetrated by any other solid object.
True. Except for adamantium.
And, in the movie, they made adamantium, incorrectly so, penetrateable by adamantium. So, real adamantium would have bounced off of itself.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
However, a lightsaber is not exactly solid. It is a grouping of accelerated particles. It doesn't so much cut as it simultaneously separates and overheats the component molecules of any object it comes into contact with.
Logical fallacy.
You concluded, incorrectly that it is limited only solid objects.
In fact, it has already been shown how adamantium is resistant to an energy-heat type attacks that are superior to the "cutting" ability of a lightsaber.
A lightsaber's cutting ability comes from its extreme heat. The blade is plasma, contained in a field.
We've already seen how Adamantium works against a super heated energy, which, by the way, would have to be much hotter than a lightsaber blade in order to accopmlish what it did. It works just fine.
Can adamantium resist the temperature of a lightsaber? Check.
Was adamantium ever cut by anything superior to the cutting ability of a lightsaber, such as Weapon XI's optic blast? Nope. Not even close.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What does this tell you?
Tells us that you comitted a logical fallacy in the premise.
Wow haermm Still just opinion, man, no proof, no hard core evidence has been shown to prove anything.
But Maul can use force choke. He displayed telekinetic powers in TPM, and force choke is a simple telekinetic grip on one's windpipe. He reached out and hurled that object at the blast door, on screen, so yes, force choke is a creditable power for him to use here. TK is TK, he is simply focusing on one's windpipe instead of a solid object on the ground.
Analogy? You saying Maul cannot use force choke is like saying "RJ can lift a 20 pound case of milk, but not a 20 pound case of oranges."
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Choke
And numerous other powers.
And no, it isn't impossible to force choke Logan to death. He needs oxygen to breathe. No oxygen, the brain dies, bada boom, the body dies.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wow haermm Still just opinion, man, no proof, no hard core evidence has been shown to prove anything.
I think this is where we are disconnecting. There is proof. Hard core proof. Both canon and EU proof. There is literally, no debate.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
But Maul can use force choke. He displayed telekinetic powers in TPM, and force choke is a simple telekinetic grip on one's windpipe. He reached out and hurled that object at the blast door, on screen, so yes, force choke is a creditable power for him to use here. TK is TK, he is simply focusing on one's windpipe instead of a solid object on the ground.
Not shown in the movies. He can't do it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Analogy? You saying Maul cannot use force choke is like saying "RJ can lift a 20 pound case of milk, but not a 20 pound case of oranges."
No, it's like saying only 3 dark side users were ever shown using force choke, and Maul wasn't one of them.
If he could use it, why didn't he force choke Qui Gon behin the shield?
Simple, it wasn't in GL canon to force choke.
There is no debate here.
Maul cannot use force choke in movie versus threads. It is a specific force power that only dark side users have been shown to use. At that, exactly 3 people have been shown to use it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_ChokeAnd numerous other powers.
[QUOTE=12195829]Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
[B]And no, it isn't impossible to force choke Logan to death. He needs oxygen to breathe. No oxygen, the brain dies, bada boom, the body dies.
Except you're wrong.
XI got the healing powers from wolvie. He was alive for quite a whle after his head was removed.
Further evidence of this is Logan's head being removed in the ocmics and surviving just fine.
😐
I pwned you TWICE with a canon AND movie reference. I can hear the sizzling, now.
i have to say I go with Maul here . In two different comic books adimanium was damaged by normal force. Thor was able to dent it with his hammer, and the Hulk was able to dent a robot (name excapes me right now) during a fight. If brute force is able to damage it, I'm sure a lightsaber could.
anyways, whats to say maul doesn't use the force to pull wolverines two outermost "claws" apart untill his arms rip in half? he may not die, but he's not gonna be able to stop the lightsaber from slivering up under his jaw.
Originally posted by XornonJay
i have to say I go with Maul here . In two different comic books adimanium was damaged by normal force. Thor was able to dent it with his hammer, and the Hulk was able to dent a robot (name excapes me right now) during a fight. If brute force is able to damage it, I'm sure a lightsaber could.
Riiiiiiight.
Thor, one of the most powerful beings in the universe, a god, and someone who can lift a million million million million+ tons of weight, somehow managed to barely be able to dent Adamantium, and this remarkeably makes adamantium able to be cut by a hot plasma blade?
This is the same Thor whose punch's shockwave almost destroyed an entire planet. 😐 Not even the punch itself. The shockwave.
You know, the same Thor that is a god that is nearly omnipotent, being about to destroy Captain America's shield, which is stronger than true adamantium, etc.
That's some very faulty logic.
Then, we have Hulk.
I would say Hulk's feats are much more known than Thor's because Hulk is more popular. I don't really need to go anywhere with this, but, Hulk busted a HUGE asteroid in half, that was larger than the Earth. He also held up a mountain that weighed much more than a BILLION tons. A billion. 😐
In addition, that was a Bannerless "enrgaged" Hulk that is stronger than regular Hulk.
On top of that, Onslaught allowed his armor to crack so he could evolve further. On top of that, it wasn't adamantium...it was something onslaught made.
Originally posted by XornonJay
anyways, whats to say maul doesn't use the force to pull wolverines two outermost "claws" apart untill his arms rip in half? he may not die, but he's not gonna be able to stop the lightsaber from slivering up under his jaw.
It would require a force much greater than any force user was shown to use in all of the movies.
That's why he couldn't do that. 😐
Originally posted by dadudemonAll I see are opinions, where is this proof? I want links that back up what you are saying.
I think this is where we are disconnecting. There is proof. Hard core proof. Both canon and EU proof. There is literally, no debate.
Not shown in the movies. He can't do it.Telekinesis is basically an invisible hand that extends from the force wielder to the object he/she wishes to grab. If Maul can grip a metal object and hurl it away from him at blinding speed, he can use this same technique to crush someone's windpipe. "Objectivity", look it up.No, it's like saying only 3 dark side users were ever shown using force choke, and Maul wasn't one of them.
If he could use it, why didn't he force choke Qui Gon behin the shield?
Simple, it wasn't in GL canon to force choke.
There is no debate here.
Maul cannot use force choke in movie versus threads. It is a specific force power that only dark side users have been shown to use. At that, exactly 3 people have been shown to use it.
What if I said "Neo is never shown using Wushu, so he cannot use it here, even though he is trained in every martial art?" or "Han Solo cannot fly a snow speeder because he is never shown flying one in the movies?" or "Vader cannot throw an uppercut because he is never shown throwing an uppercut?" Wait, I got one better, "Yoda is never shown force lifting a TIE fighter, therefore he cant!!!" 🙄
Maul CAN use force choke. To say that he can't is just stupid.
Not that he would even have to. He could simply force lift Logan into the air and slam him into the ground over and over again. Wait, Maul is never seen using force lift!!! OMG!!! Debate over!!! 🙄
Except you're wrong.So what would happen when Maul employs force choke (And yes, he can do this), and Wolverine passes out? And as Maul continues to hold the choke, depleting the brain of oxygen? The brain would DIE.XI got the healing powers from wolvie. He was alive for quite a whle after his head was removed.
Further evidence of this is Logan's head being removed in the ocmics and surviving just fine.
😐
I pwned you TWICE with a canon AND movie reference. I can hear the sizzling, now.
Not that any of this really matters, OP said Logan can be beaten by being incapacitated. Maul force pushes him into the freezing chamber, freezes him, indo story.
Here's my opinion on some arguments:
Lightsaber vs Adamantium
- A lightsaber cannot cut through Adamantium. Adamantium is said to be indestructable in X2. The fact that Strkyer's bullet penetrated him was a movie mistake or just a cheap solution to connect Origins to the X-men series (memory loss). An indestructable object, does not penetrate another indestructable object, regardless of its kinetic energy.
Someone previously compared that SW Metals are more durable because they are more 'high tech'. This is not really an argument. Although it should logically be true, it doesn't hold much water in a 'movie vs' debate. It should also be noted that the elements from which Adamantium is made are not from this planet. This fact really reduces the advanced technology argument.
Darth Maul Force Choke
I don't have a clear position on this. Logically speaking, there shouldn't be a doubt that Maul can use Force Choke. If someone can use force telekinesis to hold and move objects around, there is no reason why they can't apply this ability to a person's throat.
However, Maul has not been seen to use choke so it's not correct to give him this ability in the fight. It's also too bad Maul hasn't telekinetically held anything in place, or we the Maul-backers could just argue that Maul holds him and the air and has fun with his saber.
Darth Maul vs Wolverine
The real point of this topic. Overall I CAN see Darth Maul taking the win. The simple fact is that Wolverine's healing factor can be over-taxed. This can be seen in his fight vs Lady Deathstrike in X2, and also even in Origins in his first fight against Victor Creed. In the former example, after he is stabbed in the back, he is almost completely incapacitated, only barely being able to slice some chains to pocket the very lucky win against Deathstrike. He will have no such luck against Maul. If Maul can get Wolverine on the ground, he can likewise keep impaling Wolverine for the win.
Something else *off topic*
Just something I noticed in Origins that I need to get off my chest:
I'd like to mention that Wolverine should not have been able to beat Victor after the Adamantium upgrade if he couldn't do it before. The simple reason is this - the Adamantium's upgrade only helps Wolverine in this particular fight because it allows him to slice things off. However, Wolverine at no point slices or attempts to slice anything off Creed. He only stabs him in the chest. But wait, how is this different to stabbing Creed with normal bone claws? Not much really, although one could argue that the claws are now a bit bigger. But should that account for the dramatic domination in his fight after the upgrade? I think not.
But wait, some might say that his bones are now unbreakable. That's true but that is not the reason why he lost to Creed before. His bones weren't broken in their first fight, but he still lost anyway. He was also decisively beaten before Creed stomped off his bone claws. If anything, the adamantium upgrade would've slowed him down (added weight) and also reduced his healing factor (although this is only mentioned in the comics).
Ok enough off-topicness 🙂
Originally posted by PlacidityTK is TK. Maul is a frigging evil Sith Lord, if he sees Wolvie regenerating over and over, surely he can and will use force choke. Likewise for force lift. Think about it: Maul spent years training with Sidious, surely he knows that a person can be lifted with the force, and certainly he knows or would figure out force choke. If half trained Luke Skywalker can do it, with little training, then a fully trained Sith like Maul can. It's common sense.
Here's my opinion on some arguments:[b]Darth Maul Force Choke
I don't have a clear position on this. Logically speaking, there shouldn't be a doubt that Maul can use Force Choke. If someone can use force telekinesis to hold and move objects around, there is no reason why they can't apply this ability to a person's throat.
However, Maul has not been seen to use choke so it's not correct to give him this ability in the fight. It's also too bad Maul hasn't telekinetically held anything in place, or we the Maul-backers could just argue that Maul holds him and the air and has fun with his saber. [/b]
So what if he has never been shown using them onscreen? Neo has never been shown using a shotgun, Beck was never shown using a baseball bat, Crocodile Dundee was never shown using a switchblade, Riddick was never shown using a 2x4, you saying they can't use these items in threads here?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So what if he has never been shown using them onscreen? Neo has never been shown using a shotgun, Beck was never shown using a baseball bat, Crocodile Dundee was never shown using a switchblade, Riddick was never shown using a 2x4, you saying they can't use these items in threads here?
No, force choke is a specific ability. Not the same as using a gun, which you or I could do easily. The real argument is whether someone who can manipulate the force (TK push/pull) should be able to Force Choke, and whether they are really just the same ability, but applied differently.
I would say they are the same, but it would just still be speculation (very good speculation btw, but nonetheless just that).
Originally posted by Placidity
No, force choke is a specific ability. Not the same as using a gun, which you or I could do easily. The real argument is whether someone who can manipulate the force (TK push/pull) should be able to Force Choke, and whether they are really just the same ability, but applied differently.
I would say they are the same, but it would just still be speculation (very good speculation btw, but nonetheless just that).
Here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Maul#Powers_and_abilities
Maul displayed a reasonable amount of competence in telekinesis, utilizing Force Grip and Force Choke while interrogating Hath Monchar, and being able to activate a set of door controls behind him with a flung piece of wreckage.
Yes, I know the first part is EU, but the second part is from TPM. He grabbed the piece of wreckage with TK, and force choke is TK. Even if Maul has never heard of force choke, he is not a dumbass, he will figure it out. If anything, force choke is much more simple.
And, as I stated, Like did it in ROTJ, and he had little training, while Maul trained with Sidious for his entire life.
Why can't you see it? You are one of the smarter posters here, I can't believe you are failing to put the pieces together.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Maul#Powers_and_abilitiesWhy can't you see it? You are one of the smarter posters here, I can't believe you are failing to put the pieces together.
Haha, I can see it. I've already said my opinion on it, that Maul should be able to use Choke. But I also think there is still some speculation to it.
Plus, shouldn't matter too much. Going back to the bigger picture, Maul still wins.
And uh, thanks btw, I think 🙂
Originally posted by PlacidityNo speculation, it's as simple as ABC.
Haha, I can see it. I've already said my opinion on it, that Maul should be able to use Choke. But I also think there is still some speculation to it.Plus, shouldn't matter too much. Going back to the bigger picture, Maul still wins.
And uh, thanks btw, I think 🙂
Welcome 😉