Phoenix (Rachael) vs Silver Surfer

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Yeah, the same Goblic Force that was defeated by some Celestials.

Stop acting like defeating Galactus is an uber feat. He was recently nearly killed by Beta Ray Bill.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
That's a great excuse ecept for one small point, the EMP shattered the Phoenix Force into millions of pieces. What does that have to do with Jeans durability?

A being that can eat stars was killed by a significantly less amout of a small portion of the type of energy a star produces.?

😐

Yeah that was completely plot driven.

Originally posted by Mindset
Maybe MRIs can also beat the Phoenix force.

Jean was brought down by Xorneto and his world level EMP. Moments of weakness vary depending on how the Host accesses and uses the Phoenix Force. Rachael is not Jean, you cant simply carry over circumstances disregarding previous showings, or considering the range of factors. Case and point being as of recent match up, where Rachael was tanking the blast of an actual planet buster in the form of stellar energy.

So can we get, back on topic. What does Rachael lack to bring down the Surfer?

Silver surfer stomps ... If we are talking about Rachel who does not have Phoenix Force or is potrayed in the older X-men. With the full Phoenix Force she stomps.

Originally posted by id369
You mean when Dark Phoenix fought Galactus?
What_If_-_V1_-_027_-_Phoenix_had_not_died.

Incidentally Phoenix goes on to destroy the Universe at the end.

What If's aren't canon.

maybe a merging is in order . . .?

merged. use the search in the future before making threads. thank you.

Originally posted by Digi
What If's aren't canon.

That’s some what the point I wanted to establish.

The insert, where Galactus mentions he could destroy the Phoenix is found in the What If.

Though incidentally, its the Phoenix that ends up destroying the universe in the same comic. So I am not sure, why members would reference it. Considering its non cannon, and Galactus was not doing to well in the match all together.

Another key point is how Phoenix handled Firelord, and stripped Terrax of the power of cosmic. If you want to make an argument in favor of the Heralds, I would keep from referencing that particular title.

What is canon is that the PF itself, (all hostless ... as in, actual Force)
got blown into billions of pieces by a planetary scale attack.

Was trapped, defeated and nearly killed by freakin alien ship.

Was shattered again into pieces by Shiar tech.

Was stalemated then owned by 6 heroes, one of which was Rogue.
(mind you ... the heroes were tired, the PF was fresh & reborn) literally stated.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

That's a great excuse ecept for one small point,

[b]the EMP shattered the Phoenix Force into millions of pieces.

What does that have to do with Jeans durability? [/B]

Originally posted by Mindset

Maybe MRIs can also beat the Phoenix force.

Phoenix Rachel wins easy

Recently Rachel daunted an extremely small portion of the Phoenix Force. So small its not even considered the Phoenix Force. Its worded along the lines of, being an echo or a shadow Phoenix Force.

http://h.imagehost.org/view/0267/Uncanny_X-Men_479_022
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0037/Uncanny_X-Men_481_017

Though she is wielding much less, her competence with the Force has risen. Rachael hardly has ANY embarrassing moments, like those that plagued her in her time with Excalibur. At least she remembers, her power is enough to effect matter at a molecular level, or simply pop the heads of dangerous people ala Cable and Deadpool.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1606/wok05017.jpg
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0471/Marvel_Team-Up_024_017

Rachel and her various encounters with Shi’Ar War Ships.
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0645/xkb_03_004-005j1
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0423/xkb_03_006
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0830/xkb_03_007
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0133/X-Men_Kingbreaker_01_Zone-Megan_08
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0023/X-Men_Kingbreaker_01_Zone-Megan_09
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0328/X-Men_Kingbreaker_01_Zone-Megan_12

Rachel has no qualms in using lethal force.
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0081/Uncanny_X-Men_484_012
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0158/Uncanny_X-Men_484_016
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0562/X-Men_Kingbreaker_004_013

The one hitter quitter that put Vulcan. It doesn’t put Rachel down she gets back up, and confronts Vulcan. Indirectly manipulating the energy blast or Mr. Omega himself.
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0558/Uncanny_X-Men_485_017
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0231/UncannyX-Men486-11

Rachel Stalemates Gladiator in close quarter combat. Notice she is unphased by the sucker punch?
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0152/XMen_EV_5_DCP_0014
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0415/XMen_EV_5_DCP_0022

In terms of speed, here she is outpacing Gladiator racing towards Star Ship.
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0491/X-Men_Kingbreaker_002_007
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0426/X-Men_Kingbreaker_002_008

Here she is intercepting the female Stronian.
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0422/X-Men_Kingbreaker_002_015
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0600/X-Men_Kingbreaker_002_017

Here is a nice durability feat. Rachel tanks, a blast from a vary casual planet buster, on top of a fleet of all the Shi”Ar war ships targeting missiles on her.
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0746/xkb_03_020
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0336/X-Men_Kingbreaker_004_003_004

Note: The Shi’Ar Criminal turned Elite Guard is no joke. He casually blows up planets. By the time he meets Rachel, he had already lost his mind and destroyed various planets, incinerating multiple ones just by passing through them.
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0151/X-Men_Kingbreaker_002_021
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0098/X-Men_Kingbreaker_002_022
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0903/xkb_03_013

My question is. Considering her past feats with the PF, her recent showings. What can Silver Surfer do, that could not be contested by Rachel if she is back to hosting the Phoenix Force?

Rachel had extremely small portion of the Phoenix Force. I think, if she would want to really hurt Gladiator she would. She did what she wanted. And that very very very small portion of Phoenix Force would be more than enough power to bring Silver Surfer down. It's only matter if she would chose it so.

bump