Originally posted by jinzin
🤨Have you SEEN the encounters between tooth and himself?
And that was all classic tooth.
Then Wolverine to Spidey's "He's fast. Faster than me?"
Spidey is far faster than Sabertooth and is the most agile in Marvel. Spidey has a slight healing factor and could handle Deadpool, no problem.
Originally posted by jinzinWell it changes the statement a great deal when you neglect to finish it.
I know. doesnt change his implied speed.
W/o the last part it implies that Wolverine is probably faster than Spiderman, instead of Spiderman momentarily questioning his speed, which was what actually happened.
Originally posted by SamZEDYup it means he's fast... fast enough to make Spiderman second guess himself, and if you've seen they're other encounters you understand why...
You know that was just something he thought in the middle of the fight, doesnt mean anything other than that Wolverine's fast. I mean, he once said that he lifted a weight "the Hulk and Thor couldn't lift"...
For people to come in here and delude themselves with the notion that Spiderman's a great deal faster than the other combatants here is total crap and anyone who isn't crazed with Spider sense instead of common sense is going to be able to recognize that. 😬
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm back (for now).
Bloodlust on then Spidey and Wolverine wins.Spidey being hit in comics contradicts the fact that he actually has spider-sense. In this fight Spidey will [b]always
have his spider-sense and thus won't get hit. [/B]
Prime example of what I'm talking about. 😐
Originally posted by Mindset
Well it changes the statement a great deal when you neglect to finish it.W/o the last part it implies that Wolverine is probably faster than Spiderman, instead of Spiderman momentarily questioning his speed, which was what actually happened.
Sorry I just assumed we've all seen the scans so many times that I didn't need to explain the entire thing. I made my point about this to Sam, no need to rehash it.
Originally posted by zacura
Spidey is far faster than Sabertooth and is the most agile in Marvel. Spidey has a slight healing factor and could handle Deadpool, no problem.
I'm guessing you aren't familiar with either Sabretooth OR Deadpool outside of the Wolverine movie or cartoon or something.
Originally posted by Mindset
We may have, other people, doubtful.
You're right, I shouldn't give KMC comic readers the credit to have read comics with the characters and the fights we're talking about on the forum.. even though we've provided scans of them in length specifially for that reason. STUPID KMCERS! 😠 .... 🙁
Originally posted by zacura
Spidey is far faster than Sabertooth and is the most agile in Marvel. Spidey has a slight healing factor and could handle Deadpool, no problem.
Your fanboyism astounds me. Spideys healing factor is null and void here, he'll need time to recover any moderate damage, unfortunatley for him here, getting hit by Sabes or one of DP's weapons wont be moderate damage, it'll be bleeding time.
Originally posted by jinzinI've read every encounter they've had but THAT was the ONLY real fight they've EVER had, so dont see how other their brief encounters matter more than the actual fight. And Spider-man second guessing himself hardly means anything, he does that all te time.
Yup it means he's fast... fast enough to make Spiderman second guess himself, and if you've seen they're other encounters you understand why...
Originally posted by jinzinI hope that wasnt pointed at me. Also, Spider-man IS faster than any other combatant in this thread, not a great deal but fast enough to dodge anyone's attacks here for a looong time.
For people to come in here and delude themselves with the notion that Spiderman's a great deal faster than the other combatants here is total crap and anyone who isn't crazed with Spider sense instead of common sense is going to be able to recognize that. 😬
Originally posted by SamZED
I've read every encounter they've had but THAT was the ONLY real fight they've EVER had, so dont see how other their brief encounters matter more than the actual fight. And Spider-man second guessing himself hardly means anything, he does that all te time.
If you're about to on about that whole "it wasn't a real fight" nonsense in regard to their other encounters....
For one, Spiderman's attacked Logan outright in several of those encounters.
And second, if that's your defense, then you need to realize Wolverine wasn't "really fighting" in that encounter either. As he was clearly holding back, shown several times in that fight.
Those other brief encounters matter because they ARE fights, or fighting scenarios, and Spiderman HAS a Spider sense that allows him to dodge things on instinct, conscious and subconcious indicators regardless if he's in a real fight or not, regardless if it's a sneak attack or not.
This is something that Spidey fans always baffle me with... He's got a spider sense so he'll dodge anything, but that wasn't a fight so his spider sense didn't matter.... 🤨 ok whatever....
Anyways..
Spiderman second guessing himself about his speed against Wolverine DOES mean something when everyone of their one on one encounters proves a point as to WHY he would be doing that.... E.I. Being punched, kicked, stabbed, and pinned in a hefty majority of their fights and conflicts thereafter.
Hell, even in that story there are several references to Wolverine moving so fast, Peter couldn't stop him from killing people.
Your assertion that their encounters afterwards are not fights and his comment inconsequntial comes off as immature, like a kid plugging his ears and closing his eyes to the truth. Wolverine is very much in the same league as Spiderman's speed, and this has been proven time and time again.
Originally posted by SamZEDNot necessarily directed at you... but....
I hope that wasnt pointed at me. Also, Spider-man IS faster than any other combatant in this thread, not a great deal but fast enough to dodge anyone's attacks here for a looong time.
And frankly Wolverine can keep moving at maximum speed for a longer duration than Spiderman, so Pete can't even hold onto that advantage. Bottem line is that hardly ANY of Spiderman's encounters with decent streeters even comes CLOSE to proving that he's going to be dodging their attacks for a "looong time".... that's absolutely asinine to be entirely honest. His enire history is littered with getting battered around by high end MA's in close quarters, that's just how it is and right now he's fighting 3 guys who are at the top of that totem pole. 😕
AND,
Spiderman's not faster than Tooth. 😬
Originally posted by jinzinYou mean the time when he thought he's fighting some idiot dressed up like Wolverine? Or Wolverine stabbing Parker during a TRAINING session? Ive many times heared the "they were still fighting so it counts" argument of fans that are desperately trying to prove that Wolverine would kill Parker in few seconds in a REAL fight and the argument is laughable.
If you're about to on about that whole "it wasn't a real fight" nonsense in regard to their other encounters....For one, Spiderman's attacked Logan outright in several of those encounters.
Originally posted by jinzin🤨
And second, if that's your defense, then you need to realize Wolverine wasn't "really fighting" in that encounter either. As he was clearly holding back, shown several times in that fight.
Originally posted by jinzinYeah on paper and it's been stated in few books but no writers ever pay attention to that. Parker's also said several times in books that he didn't even notice his ss going off let alone react to it. So the encounters do not really matter unless they're real fights.
Those other brief encounters matter because they ARE fights, or fighting scenarios, and Spiderman HAS a Spider sense that allows him to dodge things on instinct, conscious and subconcious indicators regardless if he's in a real fight or not, regardless if it's a sneak attack or not.
Originally posted by jinzinUm yeah and you know why? Because he didn't think Logan would actually try to cut him during the training. In a recent book Parker said it himself "you're my friend, you'd never stab me" even thogh Logan had his claws right next to Parker's throat. He'd never think Logan would actually stab him so that training incident doesnt really rove anything. And you've mentioned Spider-man fans, im no more Spider-man fan than I am a Wolverine fan.
This is something that Spidey fans always baffle me with... He's got a spider sense so he'll dodge anything, but that wasn't a fight so his spider sense didn't matter.... 🤨 ok whatever....
Originally posted by jinzinI dont even understand how you linked what he THOUGH once during a fight to their other encounters. He thought "He's fast. Faster than me? No. Noone is faster than me. Noone!" I guess by your logic that makes him faster than Quicksilver. And what "kicked, punched, stabbed" etc are you talking about? The one during the training? Or the one when he thought its just some guy wearing Logan's costume and not taking him seriously. That only works if you take stuff outta context and pretend to yourself that it proves something kinda like "Spider-man threw Wolverine outta window so he wins lolz" If im gonna judge about their speed id take the only real fight they had where both were really trying to fight and knew whom they're up against instead of some breaf encounters like Spider-man slapping Wolverin in secret wars or Wolverine stabbing Spider-man during training.
Anyways..Spiderman second guessing himself about his speed against Wolverine DOES mean something when everyone of their one on one encounters proves a point as to WHY he would be doing that.... E.I. Being punched, kicked, stabbed, and pinned in a hefty majority of their fights and conflicts thereafter..
Originally posted by jinzin😕 That doesn't take someone to be faster or even as fast as Spider-man to do that. Murdering a bunch of people in a crowded room for a trained killer is much easier than preventing the murders for someone even if this someone is faster than the killer, hell half of the time Parker would just stand there frozen of fear, confusion or whatever.
Hell, even in that story there are several references to Wolverine moving so fast, Peter couldn't stop him from killing people. .
Originally posted by jinzinUm.. THIS statement about the kid plugging his ears, THAT'S immature. I simply prefer an example of a real fight and random feats instead of some scans ripped out of context to make my the judgment. And lets see we're on the same page here. What do you mean by the "same league"? I never said Spider-man's many times faster than Wolverine hell no! im too familliar with Logan to say something stupid like that, but Parker still IS faster. That combined with his ss makes it REALLY hard for others to tag him, even the once who's as fast as Logan.
Your assertion that their encounters afterwards are not fights and his comment inconsequntial comes off as immature, like a kid plugging his ears and closing his eyes to the truth. Wolverine is very much in the same league as Spiderman's speed, and this has been proven time and time again.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by jinzinNot really. Sure there are many examples of him getting tagged by some streetlevelers and low showings but otherwise who'd buy the books? Well-written Spider-man doesnt get battered around. His latest fight with Kingpin would be a good example, but people hate it for some reason so meh. Take Carnage for example. He's as fast as Spider-man, has many sharp claws, countless number of sharp tendrils that move faster than bullets but unlike bullets can change their direction and his attacks are not detected by the ss yet Parker fought him like dozen times and almost always could succesfully dodge him. So yeah, I believe he can fight anyone here without getting tagged for a long time.
And frankly Wolverine can keep moving at maximum speed for a longer duration than Spiderman, so Pete can't even hold onto that advantage. Bottem line is that hardly ANY of Spiderman's encounters with decent streeters even comes CLOSE to proving that he's going to be dodging their attacks for a "looong time".... that's absolutely asinine to be entirely honest. His enire history is littered with getting battered around by high end MA's in close quarters, that's just how it is and right now he's fighting 3 guys who are at the top of that totem pole. 😕.
Originally posted by jinzinI know its generally believed that Tooth is faster than Wolverine so im not gonna argue that for now. Also I remember a fight of Wolverine completely pwning Sabertooth speedwise, not sure if its canon to 616. They fought near a waterfall. Ever heard of it?
AND,
Spiderman's not faster than Tooth. 😬
Originally posted by SamZED
You mean the time when he thought he's fighting some idiot dressed up like Wolverine? Or Wolverine stabbing Parker during a TRAINING session? Ive many times heared the "they were still fighting so it counts" argument of fans that are desperately trying to prove that Wolverine would kill Parker in few seconds in a REAL fight and the argument is laughable.
As for this "training" session... It was a SPARRING match, if you can't understand the implications of a sparring match, I can only assume you've never really sparred or have only done so in a point system fasion. In sparring.. you get hit, period. 😐
I find it "laughable" that you think Spiderman who had just slammed Wolverine into a wall hard enough to make a small crater, and was STILL spraying webbing at Wolverine didn't think he would elicit a reaction from someone who he KNOWS is a "killer" and a "psycho brawler". I find it laughable that you guys think Spiderman was surprised in a 1on1 fighting scenario were he was counterattacking someone the very moment he got nailed.. You can argue that doesn't say anything about their speed in combat, and I'll be here finding THAT laughable.
Same with the rooftop... Spiderman initiated the attack and failed miserably... Doesn't matter if he didn't know it was Wolverine, it was someone dressed in a superhero suit in a world where Spiderman's had his fair share of doppleganger battles.... He jumped an enemy from behind and paid the price because he wasn't fast enough to deal. Again, anything you muster past that is an excuse built on a premise of speculation.
Originally posted by SamZED
🤨
What fight are you talking about? Im talking about a fight where Logan was trying to gutt Parker from the beginning of the fight, plus his friends life was at risk so he was ready to kill Spider if that was the only way to make sure she wont suffer. And he wasn't holding back untill the VERY end of the fight
Again, nothing but your speculation.... Why would Wolverine be actively trying to kill Spiderman and the moment he had the oppurtunity to do so (and he had several) he suddenly changed his mind.... There was no change in plot, moment of revalation or anything close to that... the notion that Wolverine was trying to kill a superhero is inconsistent with his character, a superhero who he regards as a kid is ALSO inconsistnet, and that he was trying to kill Parker at the beginning of the fight but not the end? That's just downright silly as it makes no sense whatsoever.
Bottom line:
If Wolverine was trying to kill Parker, he wouldn't have been bothering trying to reason with him during the fight... or let himself be hit in the face for that matter.. 😐
Originally posted by SamZED
where Parker STOPPED fighting and on PURPOSE ALLOWED Wolverine to get in close because Wolverine knew exactly what Spider is planning and he knew that Parker doesnt have the guts fr it so killing him was no longer neccessary.
Originally posted by SamZED
Until that moment Logan wasn't holding back, more than that he was trying his best to stab Parker,
😂
WOW.... uh... No... if this is really your assertion, you need to read more Wolverine or less Spiderman... This is nothing more than complete speculation that goes against evidence and common sense.
Your perogative I guess.
Originally posted by SamZED
who at the time was YOUNG, unexperienced and was moving and fighting much SLOWER than usually and still Wolverine couldn't lay a finger on him until Parker ALLOWED him to. Kinda sums up the whole speed rivalry thing. That's the fight I've read.
Originally posted by SamZED
Yeah on paper and it's been stated in few books but no writers ever pay attention to that. Parker's also said several times in books that he didn't even notice his ss going off let alone react to it. So the encounters do not really matter unless they're real fights.
The crap you're talking about is when he's reverting to serious moments of CIS, lost in thought etc.... none of which apply to his Wolverine encounters... the majority of which... he was the antagonist.. 😐
Originally posted by SamZED
Um yeah and you know why? Because he didn't think Logan would actually try to cut him during the training.
It's no excuse to be hit by someone who's too slow to hit him..... Maybe it's because he's not too slow.
Originally posted by SamZED
In a recent book Parker said it himself "you're my friend, you'd never stab me" even thogh Logan had his claws right next to Parker's throat. He'd never think Logan would actually stab him so that training incident doesnt really rove anything. And you've mentioned Spider-man fans, im no more Spider-man fan than I am a Wolverine fan.
Originally posted by SamZED
I dont even understand how you linked what he THOUGH once during a fight to their other encounters. He thought "He's fast. Faster than me? No. Noone is faster than me. Noone!" I guess by your logic that makes him faster than Quicksilver.
If that's what you got from that, then you're not really one to dictate to others about logic.. 😕
Originally posted by SamZED
And what "kicked, punched, stabbed" etc are you talking about? The one during the training? Or the one when he thought its just some guy wearing Logan's costume and not taking him seriously. That only works if you take stuff outta context and pretend to yourself that it proves something kinda like "Spider-man threw Wolverine outta window so he wins lolz"
In the SPARRING and rooftop scenarios Spiderman was the antagonist in each instance.
In the window example... Spiderman was.... ALSO... the antagonist.
Originally posted by SamZEDYeah, you'll take that fight.. take that fight right out of context to suit your purposes and then blab to others about how they need to take context into account. You're looking quite the hypocrite in this thread.
If im gonna judge about their speed id take the only real fight they had where both were really trying to fight and knew whom they're up against instead of some breaf encounters like Spider-man slapping Wolverin in secret wars or Wolverine stabbing Spider-man during training.
Originally posted by SamZED
😕 That doesn't take someone to be faster or even as fast as Spider-man to do that. Murdering a bunch of people in a crowded room for a trained killer is much easier than preventing the murders for someone even if this someone is faster than the killer, hell half of the time Parker would just stand there frozen of fear, confusion or whatever.
Um.. THIS statement about the kid plugging his ears, THAT'S immature. I simply prefer an example of a real fight and random feats instead of some scans ripped out of context to make my the judgment. And lets see we're on the same page here. What do you mean by the "same league"? I never said Spider-man's many times faster than Wolverine hell no! im too familliar with Logan to say something stupid like that, but Parker still IS faster. That combined with his ss makes it REALLY hard for others to tag him, even the once who's as fast as Logan.
I'm calling you immature because you're ignoring the context of the fights that makes them suitable examples in the first place.
i.e. Spiderman constantly being the antagonist when it comes to Wolverine in their 1on1 encounters, and either being in a fight situation or looking for one... Just like you keep blowing off the rooftop encounter like he thought he was fighting joe shmoe? He was throwing punches hard enough to crush steel and level brick walls, Wolverine dodged him and batted him halfway across the roof.. and if that wasn't bad enough, AFTER that happened, after Spiderman could clearly assess he wasn't up against just some goof in a suit, he STILL got pwned. You can "pretend" that doesn't say anything about both parties, speed, but to do so is... "laughable".
Originally posted by SamZED
Not really. Sure there are many examples of him getting tagged by some streetlevelers and low showings but otherwise who'd buy the books? Well-written Spider-man doesnt get battered around. His latest fight with Kingpin would be a good example, but people hate it for some reason so meh.
Originally posted by SamZED
Take Carnage for example. He's as fast as Spider-man, has many sharp claws, countless number of sharp tendrils that move faster than bullets but unlike bullets can change their direction and his attacks are not detected by the ss yet Parker fought him like dozen times and almost always could succesfully dodge him.
Originally posted by SamZED
So yeah, I believe he can fight anyone here without getting tagged for a long time.
That's fine, you can have a belief and be wrong. Just look at religion and evolution...
Originally posted by SamZEDActually that's not a belief that's a fact stated on panel, proven on panel and confirmed by both characters as well as third parties.
I know its generally believed that Tooth is faster than Wolverine so im not gonna argue that for now. Also I remember a fight of Wolverine completely pwning Sabertooth speedwise, not sure if its canon to 616. They fought near a waterfall. Ever heard of it?
The only fight they've ever had near a waterfall I can remember is in the Ultimates verse and Tooth was winning.
Originally posted by h1a8
Spidey being hit in comics contradicts the fact that he actually has spider-sense. In this [b]forum fight Spidey will always have his spider-sense and thus won't get hit. [/B]
You actually believe that? This isn't a case of him just dodging, it's a fight aswell, he has to get in close to land a hit and in their will come the question of his CQC compentence, it's all well him being told by his spider-sense an attack is on the way, it's a different story actually getting out of the way of said attack, especially if it's dealt by someone with comparable speed. Your statement is all kinds of wrong really.
I mean with your logic, anyone who has ever dodged a bullet , should also never get hit..well hell that would be all the goddamn street levelrs in history of MA characters.
Originally posted by jinzinAs for this "training" session... It was a SPARRING match, if you can't understand the implications of a sparring match, I can only assume you've never really sparred or have only done so in a point system fasion. In sparring.. you get hit, period. 😐
Do you take your gloves randomly off when you spar with your friends? 😐
I don't believe Spidey was excepting to be stabbed in a sparring match where the point is to learn, not to compete.