Originally posted by BattlehammerStay in the peanut gallery.
Really, because what you asked for was were he stated it was an accident which is what the scan states.
I wanted the scan where he actually hit Spiderman, but I got the comic, so don't worry about it, even though I don't know why you were.
Originally posted by Mindset
Stay in the peanut gallery.I wanted the scan where he actually hit Spiderman, but I got the comic, so don't worry about it, even though I don't know why you were.
Then ask for when he hit him, not were he stated it was an accident. It not anyone but your own fault for asking for a scan that you did not want.
Originally posted by Mindset
*sigh*Throwing knees and elbows full force on purpose is comparable to Wolverine punching with his claws out on purpose, his claws didn't accidentally pop out. Both have the potential to seriously hurt someone, and it's not exclusive to those two attacks, it applies to any kind of attack that is overtly dangerous. Your example of punching someone a little harder in the face than intended is not at all comparable. Anywhere that Wolverine hit could cause massive damage with his claws out, the purpose of sparring is not to hurt your partner.
The point was that accidents can and do happen in sparring. You seem to think the point is illegitimate because of the lethality or level of danger in a given attack? As if an accident isn't an accident anymore if the level of danger goes up which is utterly ridiculous because the moment you go from controlled sparring to regular sparring the level of danger goes up and so does the accident rate...
And to keep your implications abound that it wasn't an accident.... So what, you think Wolverine was lying about that? Right.
Of course the purpose of sparring isn't to hurt your partner, (probably should let Spidey know that the next time he's slamming people into steel walls) which is why it was an "accident".
Originally posted by Mindset
Looking at the comic again I don't see how you can say Wolverine accidentally stabbed him, as soon as he did it he said, "Tag you're it". More like he accidentally let his anger take over.
As I said before, I'm not in a position to say which part of that was accidental, all we know is that it was. As stated before, he referred to it as a scratch, he clearly didn't think he did much damage with that attack. Once again maybe he gave Pete too much credit in what he could take.
Originally posted by Mindset
Right, so being stabbed in the torso isn't potentially life threatening...what are you talking about?
Originally posted by Mindset
So now Spiderman has the durability and healing to let him take claw shots w/o much trouble?
Nice way to intentionally try to twist words around though. Transparent but nice.
Originally posted by Mindset
Oh well, yea, let's take what Wolverine says. It was probably just a little paper cut, one that caused Spiderman to pass out from blood loss, one that had him still bleeding through his bandages later that night.
Lol, what an asswipe.
So when it's not exaggerating Spiderman taking full on claw assaults now it's exaggerating the blow being a papercut. 🙄
If you can't even take the context of my words at face value how then do you think you can properly gauge my example?
Look point is you think it was a potentially life threatening attack, one which Wolverine regarded as a scratch, and one that Parker immediately went on an all out offensive about. I don't doubt that even an inch of Wolverine's claws in your belly would cause bloodloss, but to say that it was a potentially life threatening attack, and to insist that it wasn't an accident is downright insulting to both parties in so many ways I don't know where to begin.. 🤨
Originally posted by Mindset
Wasn't trying to be witty, just pointing out how stupid the comparison was.
Originally posted by Mindset
Anyway, Spiderman was obviously shocked that Wolverine actually stabbed him, he was not expecting Wolverine to attack like that, neither were any of the other Avengers. And no, it is not a clear indication of how a real fight would go. That probably has something to do with it not being a real fight.I'll gladly be awaiting your personal attacks.
Never said it was the ultimate example of how a real fight would go.
I can see I really don't need to even argue here as all you care to do is attack your own straw men.
it may not have been a real fight but it proves things about a fight between the two.
One that Wolverine can take Spidey's punches in a full frontal assault.
Two, that Wolverine can negotiate webbing.
Three, that Spiderman can negotiate Wolverine's pounce.
Four that Wolverine can hit Spiderman.
and Five that Spiderman can't take more than one hit from Wolverine before having his battlefield effectiveness massively reduced.
And we all know the problem here is number 4.
This notion that had it been a real fight Spiderman would have dodged, which isn't supported by anything that applies to a fight between Wolverine and Spiderman except maybe the Secret Wars example. It's so utterly rediculous to assume that Wolverine can't land one punch on Spiderman in a fight when he has, and other people who are slower and less skill have.
Of course it was just "training" so Spiderman clearly would not respond to his spider sense. pft.
Originally posted by jinzinYes, accidents do happen in sparring, but we're talking about avoidable accidents that you wouldn't expect, like being stabbed.
It IS comparable due to the principles that apply to both scenarios.The point was that accidents can and do happen in sparring. You seem to think the point is illegitimate because of the lethality or level of danger in a given attack? As if an accident isn't an accident anymore if the level of danger goes up which is utterly ridiculous because the moment you go from controlled sparring to regular sparring the level of danger goes up and so does the accident rate...
And to keep your implications abound that it wasn't an accident.... So what, you think Wolverine was lying about that? Right.
Of course the purpose of sparring isn't to hurt your partner, (probably should let Spidey know that the next time he's slamming people into steel walls) which is why it was an "accident".
As I said before, I'm not in a position to say which part of that was accidental, all we know is that it was. As stated before, he referred to it as a scratch, he clearly didn't think he did much damage with that attack. Once again maybe he gave Pete too much credit in what he could take.
Well when I'm talking about the comic I tend to include character histories, abilities, attributes, etc etc..... Wolverine knows how to hurt people, and do it with those claws better then anyone. If he was attempting to land a potentially life threatening blow he would have. As it stands he put his claws barely into spidey's chest, and called it a scratch. If you're assuming to know more about lethality than a fictional character like Wolverine..... well...
To take claws penetrating him no more than an inch in? He should.
Nice way to intentionally try to twist words around though. Transparent but nice.
Lol, what an asswipe.
So when it's not exaggerating Spiderman taking full on claw assaults now it's exaggerating the blow being a papercut. 🙄
If you can't even take the context of my words at face value how then do you think you can properly gauge my example?
Look point is you think it was a potentially life threatening attack, one which Wolverine regarded as a scratch, and one that Parker immediately went on an all out offensive about. I don't doubt that even an inch of Wolverine's claws in your belly would cause bloodloss, but to say that it was a potentially life threatening attack, and to insist that it wasn't an accident is downright insulting to both parties in so many ways I don't know where to begin.. 🤨
Only stupid if you ignore the principles which apply to both, which you clearly have no problems doing.
Never said it was the ultimate example of how a real fight would go.
I can see I really don't need to even argue here as all you care to do is attack your own straw men.
it may not have been a real fight but it proves things about a fight between the two.
One that Wolverine can take Spidey's punches in a full frontal assault.
Two, that Wolverine can negotiate webbing.
Three, that Spiderman can negotiate Wolverine's pounce.
Four that Wolverine can hit Spiderman.
and Five that Spiderman can't take more than one hit from Wolverine before having his battlefield effectiveness massively reduced.And we all know the problem here is number 4.
This notion that had it been a real fight Spiderman would have dodged, which isn't supported by anything that applies to a fight between Wolverine and Spiderman except maybe the Secret Wars example. It's so utterly rediculous to assume that Wolverine can't land one punch on Spiderman in a fight when he has, and other people who are slower and less skill have.Of course it was just "training" so Spiderman clearly would not respond to his spider sense. pft.
He's either lying or confused about what the word accident means. Or maybe like I said, he meant it was an accident that he couldn't control himself. It's not like he accidentally stabbed Spiderman, that was clearly his purpose.
Wolverine wasn't at all hurt from Spiderman hitting him against the wall. He was never in any danger of being seriously hurt.
So I am to believe that Wolverine gave Peter too much credit on what he could take, but he also was aware to what degree that his attack would harm Spiderman...what? Obviously, Wolverine didn't know how much damage he was doing with his claws, you don't pass out from blood loss from just a little scratch. And let's assume it was an accident, like you say, how would Wolverine be able to pick and choose where he struck Spiderman and how much damage he was inflicting, if he wasn't intending to stab him in the first place?
As far as Wolverine was concerned it was little more than a scratch and he was hitting someone with superhuman durability and a healing factor of his own.This is what you said, you seem to be implying that his healing and durability would provide any kind of protection against Wolverine's claws. I may have exaggerated too much, but you should get the point, and that's that it's laughable to think his durability would be a factor when Wolverine can stab Hulk, and that his healing would make a difference mid fight.
Hyperbolic statement to better prove a point. It was obviously not a little scratch, you can't honestly think that. As for this only going one inch in business, where are you getting that? It looks like at least half the length of the claws went in Pete's body. You don't think being stabbed in the torso and bleeding to the point of passing out is potentially lethal? You think stabbing someone while saying "Tag you're it" shows that it was an accident? OK.
Except the principle doesn't work. You expect certain attacks in a sparring match, like being punched, whether it is a little harder than you agreed upon doesn't really matter, you're expecting those kinds of attacks. You, however, are not expecting attacks that can really hurt you. Spiderman was not expecting Wolverine to attack him in a fashion that could really hurt him.
The "fight" didn't show anything we don't already know:
We know Wolverine can take multiple punches, we know when he can cut the webbing he can escape, and we know Wolverine can hit him, but the ease in which he stabbed him in the sparring match isn't congruent with how their real fights have gone.
Do you perform as well in sparring as you do in a real fight? Would you do the same careless moves you do in sparring in a real fight? I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that Wolverine can't hit Spiderman, but Spiderman, also can and has dodged Wolverine's attacks as well. The things that happen in a sparring match are not clearly translatable to what would happen in a real fight. Spiderman would not put himself in a position where Wolverine could easily attack him with his claws while he had no way to escape, defend, or attack himself. He knows what Wolverine is capable of, and had it been a real fight between the two he would have been less careless, as he has shown in their actual fights.
Originally posted by Mindset
Yes, accidents do happen in sparring, but we're talking about avoidable accidents that you wouldn't expect, like being stabbed.He's either lying or confused about what the word accident means. Or maybe like I said, he meant it was an accident that he couldn't control himself. It's not like he accidentally stabbed Spiderman, that was clearly his purpose.
Wolverine wasn't at all hurt from Spiderman hitting him against the wall. He was never in any danger of being seriously hurt.
Doesn't matter. Spiderman began his legitimate counter attack first.
Once more, he wasn't expecting to elicit a response out of Wolverine? You said it yourself, he knows what Wolverine is capible of. You "expect" the unexpected in fighting, and that goes for any fighting. You have to be prepared for a multitude of different scenarios wheather that means you take an accidental elbow or not.
As I already said, I'm in no position to say which part was the accident, whether he meant to throw a fake and it landed, or simply didn't mean to cause as much damage as he did, he confirmed several times that it was an accident. To keep insisting otherwise is just self serving on your part because you're flat out ignoring what you don't agree with.
Originally posted by MindsetHe clearly didn't think it would harm him that much given that he assumed it was a sccratch. 😕 Don't see what's hard to understand about that.
So I am to believe that Wolverine gave Peter too much credit on what he could take, but he also was aware to what degree that his attack would harm Spiderman...what?
Originally posted by Mindset
Obviously, Wolverine didn't know how much damage he was doing with his claws, you don't pass out from blood loss from just a little scratch. And let's assume it was an accident, like you say, how would Wolverine be able to pick and choose where he struck Spiderman and how much damage he was inflicting, if he wasn't intending to stab him in the first place?
Jeezus, do you mean you're taking the term scratch literally now? WOW... yeah you're comprhensive abilities are only used to suit your P.o.v instead of remaining objective.
We both know that it was a simplistic term that while not meant to be taken literally was used to exibit what level of attack Wolverine assumed he used, which wasn't life threatening or lethal.... Clearly given Peter's reaction.
Wolverine can cut the wings off a barfly and your asking me about his assumptions on accuracy?
Like I said, I don't know which part was the accident which makes it harder to interpret at which point Wolverine lost control. Was it physical? Dunno. Mental? You seem to think so, but when Wolverine loses it, it's usually damned transparent.
Originally posted by Mindset
This is what you said, you seem to be implying that his healing and durability would provide any kind of protection against Wolverine's claws. I may have exaggerated too much, but you should get the point, and that's that it's laughable to think his durability would be a factor when Wolverine can stab Hulk, and that his healing would make a difference mid fight.
Never said that his HF would matter mid-fight, but it would clearly help him deal with a wound which wasn't that big a deal in the first place, his own fault for over exerting himself thereafter.
Originally posted by Mindset
Hyperbolic statement to better prove a point. It was obviously not a little scratch, you can't honestly think that..
The same way it wasn't an intentionally lethal attack, which you honestly couldn't think as well.
Originally posted by Mindset
As for this only going one inch in business, where are you getting that? It looks like at least half the length of the claws went in Pete's body. You don't think being stabbed in the torso and bleeding to the point of passing out is potentially lethal? You think stabbing someone while saying "Tag you're it" shows that it was an accident? OK.
Again, Peter's fault for over exerting himself while bleeding, you don't think engaging in fast paced physical combat using strength and agility, would make the effects of the wounds worse? Okay.
Originally posted by Mindset
Except the principle doesn't work. You expect certain attacks in a sparring match, like being punched, whether it is a little harder than you agreed upon doesn't really matter, you're expecting those kinds of attacks. You, however, are not expecting attacks that can really hurt you. Spiderman was not expecting Wolverine to attack him in a fashion that could really hurt him.
In a "training" scenario where IM speared Luke Cage, SW was trying to zap Steve, and Wolverine had already lunged at Spiderman with his claws out..... during which Spiderman who counterattacked Wolverine with a slam hard enough to send steel debris flying, didn't "expect" to elicit a response from Wolverine? Even though he has hyperactive senses and borderline precognition that tells him to expect one...... Uh huh,, that's not an excuse at all.
And in response to that last bit, Wolverine clearly didn't assume he was going to really hurt Peter with something he deemed twice to be a scratch.
Originally posted by Mindset
The "fight" didn't show anything we don't already know:We know Wolverine can take multiple punches, we know when he can cut the webbing he can escape, and we know Wolverine can hit him, but the ease in which he stabbed him in the sparring match isn't congruent with how their real fights have gone.
Do you perform as well in sparring as you do in a real fight? Would you do the same careless moves you do in sparring in a real fight? I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that Wolverine can't hit Spiderman, but Spiderman, also can and has dodged Wolverine's attacks as well. The things that happen in a sparring match are not clearly translatable to what would happen in a real fight. Spiderman would not put himself in a position where Wolverine could easily attack him with his claws while he had no way to escape, defend, or attack himself. He knows what Wolverine is capable of, and had it been a real fight between the two he would have been less careless, as he has shown in their actual fights.
I'm not sure what you mean, the ease....
Wolverine missed Spiderman once and hit him on a second attempt.. Given that in other scenarios he's landed his first strikes or pounces on Spiderman it doesn't come off THAT easy looking.
And.. 🤨
Spiderman didn't put himself in any kinda bad position.. He was in mid air jumping away WHILE continuing his counter attack.. he got hit in spite of all that ON TOP of Pete's spider sense... Again, nothing you say here comes off as anything other than an excuse. 😬
I'm not sure what you think is careless about continuing to try webbing Wolverine down while bounding away but your perogative I guess.
Originally posted by jinzinWhat "every encounter"? During a training? Or when Parker wasn't even taking him seriously thinking he's fighting some guy who doesn't pose any kind of danger to him? Wolverine couldn't tag him ONCE during the real fight until Spider-man ALLOWED him to and keep in mind Parker was moving even SLOWER than usually, yet you're saying that in a fight where Spider-man fights at his 100% Wolverine's somehow gonna cut him fast and with ease. So yeah, laughable.
How on god's green earth is this laughable?
Wolverine has tagged parker in nearly every one of their encounters. Wolverine is a faster, and better MA than most high tier street levels that Spiderman has fought who have ALSO tagged Spiderman in a LARGE majority of his 1on1 encounters with them.
Originally posted by jinzinSpider-man only needs to grab his wrists to win. Also simple.
Wolverine only needs to land one hit to win. Pretty simple.
Originally posted by jinzinOh I have sparred. A LOT of times and believe me Ive never tried to gutt anyone during the sparring. And no opponent ever expected me to do so. Only helps to prove my point.
As for this "training" session... It was a SPARRING match, if you can't understand the implications of a sparring match, I can only assume you've never really sparred or have only done so in a point system fasion. In sparring.. you get hit, period. 😐
Originally posted by jinzinYou find THAT "laughable"? I find laughable that you think that Spider-man would EXPECT Wolverine who is "a friend" and "a good guy" and "who would never hurt him" to go ahead and stab him during a TRAINING simply for webbing him up. Now that IS funny. Argue that all you want, he never thought that Wolverine would even concider doing something like that. "can't believe you stabbed me!"
I find it "laughable" that you think Spiderman who had just slammed Wolverine into a wall hard enough to make a small crater, and was STILL spraying webbing at Wolverine didn't think he would elicit a reaction from someone who he KNOWS is a "killer" and a "psycho brawler". I find it laughable that you guys think Spiderman was surprised in a 1on1 fighting scenario were he was counterattacking someone the very moment he got nailed..
Originally posted by jinzinWhy that says something. That Wolverine can stab Spider-man who isn't really fighting him.
You can argue that doesn't say anything about their speed in combat, and I'll be here finding THAT laughable.
Originally posted by jinzinWolverine's managed to dodge an attack that was coming from a mile away from Spider-man who thought he's fighting some idiot dresses up as Wolverine and by your logic that autamatically means he's as fast as Spider-man. To do what Wolverine did there doesn't even take superhuman speed.
Same with the rooftop... Spiderman initiated the attack and failed miserably... Doesn't matter if he didn't know it was Wolverine, it was someone dressed in a superhero suit in a world where Spiderman's had his fair share of doppleganger battles.... He jumped an enemy from behind and paid the price because he wasn't fast enough to deal.
Originally posted by jinzinNot really, if you refuse to accept facts, that's your problem.
Again, anything you muster past that is an excuse built on a premise of speculation.
Originally posted by jinzinFirst of all about the "several" opportunities. He didn't get ANY opportunitis until the very moment Spider-man allowed him to get in close. In fact he couldn't even lay a finger on him until then. Also, I'M speculating?? O.o You said Wolverine was holding back and wasn't trying to stab Parker. Now THAT is a speculation because everything in that book suggests that Wolverine wasn't holding back and he made MANY clear attempts to stab Parker.
Again, nothing but your speculation.... Why would Wolverine be actively trying to kill Spiderman and the moment he had the oppurtunity to do so (and he had several) he suddenly changed his mind.... There was no change in plot, moment of revalation or anything close to that... the notion that Wolverine was trying to kill a superhero is inconsistent with his character, a superhero who he regards as a kid is ALSO inconsistnet, and that he was trying to kill Parker at the beginning of the fight but not the end? That's just downright silly as it makes no sense whatsoever.
Originally posted by jinzinAnd he wasn't trying to reason with him, he was trying to gutt him because his best friend's life was depending on it and HE said that HIMSELF. Yet you act like you know better. The reasoning started after Parker allowed Wolverine to get in close because killing Parker was no longer necessary. He pretty much gave up.
Bottom line:
If Wolverine was trying to kill Parker, he wouldn't have been bothering trying to reason with him during the fight...
Originally posted by jinzin🤨 ok now im SURE you've been reading a different fight. Wolverine didn't "let" him do anything. Parker was beating him in the face and the was NOTHING Wolverine could've done to stop him, but he wasn't getting koed either, so the least he could do is try and freak him out. That's why he was smiling. And it worked - Parker stopped fighting and Wolverine used that and attacked. You can't SERIOUSLY believe that Wolverine allowed Parker to punch him in the face, can you? 🤨
or let himself be hit in the face for that matter.. 😐
Originally posted by jinzinYes it was. At that point to Wolverine Parker was just some guy who always brought him trouble and if killing him was the ONLY way to make sure that his best friend doesn't suffer a horrible death after days (weeks? Months?) of torture then he was ready to do that.
Again this makes no sense.
Wolverine never thought Spiderman had the guts for killing, before OR after that fight, it has no barring on what kind of threat he thought Parker was.
Killing him was never necessary.
Originally posted by jinzin🤨 Both evidence AND common sense actually 100% support what I said. And the only speculation here is you saying that he wasn't when EVERYTHING about that book clearly suggests that he WAS trying to stab him.
😂WOW.... uh... No... if this is really your assertion, you need to read more Wolverine or less Spiderman... This is nothing more than complete speculation that goes against evidence and common sense.
Your perogative I guess.
Originally posted by jinzinUm.. wrong. All we really know is - Wolverine was trying his best to stab Spider-man who at that time was unexperienced, affraid and moving a lot slower than usually and YET Wolverine couldn't lay a finger on him during the entire fight (even though he wanted to)UNTIL Spider-man on PURPOSE allowed him to. Now THAT sums up the whole speed rivalry for me, while you base your judgement on false assumptions and on a quick thought that Spider-man had during the fight.
Yeah, that's the fight you read when you had blinders on, clearly.
It would sum up the whole speed rivarly thing if you had any clear evidence to support your farce of a case. All we know is that Wolverine was fast enough to make Spiderman second guess himself, he took maybe one or two swings which didn't land, and that might account for something if the notion that Wolverine was trying to hit Spiderman wasn't invalidated the moment he had the opportunity to do so.
Originally posted by jinzinNot nice, and not necessary.
Bullshit..
there are literally DOZENS of moments in which Spiderman's SS goes off haphazardly before he's even aware of what's going on. [/B][/QUOTE] And a dozen more where he doesn't even notice it going off until he's hit.
Originally posted by jinzinLost in thought? On paper Spider-man should react on INSTINCT, you said that yourself and being lost in thought is no excuse to not notice the ss, yet it happens very often in books. And look at that training incident again, did it look to you like Spider-man's ss went off and his body made an attempt to dodge the attack by instinct? No, it seemed like another example where writers seem to forget about the ss at all, so dont even try to say that Spider-man was "supposed" to expect that Wolverine's going to stab him during a TRAINING because he has the ss. Because that instinctive dodging clearly wasnt the case there. He was like wtf.
The crap you're talking about is when he's reverting to serious moments of CIS, lost in thought etc.... none of which apply to his Wolverine encounters... the majority of which... he was the antagonist.. 😐
Originally posted by jinzin😕 You took that seriously? You really think he was affraid that Wolverine would "KILL" him for talking to him? And you gathered that from Spider-man thinking "oh no he's gonna kill me!" If you took that Spider-man's thought seriously you really should read more Spider-man. He WASNT affraid that Wolverine would kill him, in fact he was 100% SURE that Wolverine wouldn't even hurt him. Yet, you suggest that he expected Wolverine to stab him during a TRAINING.
And yet he was afraid of Wolverine killing him for being late. He was looking for validation and hoping he was right.
Originally posted by jinzinYay for him. Proves jack unless that was a real fight with both opponents taking the fight seriously and actually trying to fight.
Again... FAIL.In the SPARRING and rooftop scenarios Spiderman was the antagonist in each instance.
In the window example... Spiderman was.... ALSO... the antagonist.
Originally posted by jinzinYou're the one to talk about taking things out of context to "suit your purposes" You use almost every possibility to post a scan compilated out of many pannels ripped out of context of Wolverine hitting Spider-man including non-canon ones to prove a point about speed. So who's the hypocrite? And dont even get me started on the whole Wolverine allowing Spider-man to punch him in the face thing. Yeah Wolverine said "here it comes, bub", prepared to attack and all of a sudden decided that that would be the best moment to "let" Parker punch him in the face a few dozen times while his best friend's life was at risk. Yeah, ok...
Yeah, you'll take that fight.. take that fight right out of context to suit your purposes and then blab to others about how they need to take context into account. You're looking quite the hypocrite in this thread.
Originally posted by jinzin
No.. it doesn't. That's the whole point... is that in SPITE of his spider sense and spider speed.. while it helps him fight virtually anyone else who has impressive superpowers, when it comes to skilled streeters he gets tagged... A LOT... by Wolverine included... this isn't even remotely up for debate. Again his ENTIRE career is virtually littered with him getting tagged by people slower, less skilled, and having lower stamina than Wolverine in one on one hand to hand fights.
Originally posted by jinzinActually I do not ignore the context, I take it into concideration. All of it. Even things like "one character doesn't want to fight" or "doesnt take the fight seriously" or "is holding back", dont see how that makes me immature, while you only concider things that suit you like "Spider-man attacked first"
I'm calling you immature because you're ignoring the context of the fights that makes them suitable examples in the first place.
i.e. Spiderman constantly being the antagonist when it comes to Wolverine in their 1on1 encounters, and either being in a fight situation or looking for one...
Originally posted by jinzinOh please. ROBIN is stong enough to damage a brick wall, doesnt take a class 10 punch, just a comicbook peak human one. So dont even try to make it sound like Spider-man was going all out. He was still holding back like he ALWAYS does even when he fights psychos like Green Goblin who randomly throws granades at innocent people. Let alone when he fights some guy in a haloween costume who's just standing on a rooftop.
Just like you keep blowing off the rooftop encounter like he thought he was fighting joe shmoe? He was throwing punches hard enough to crush steel and level brick walls, Wolverine dodged him and batted him halfway across the roof..
Originally posted by jinzinYou mean when the "idiot dressed up like Wolverine" suddenly popped adamantium claws out of his hands and Spider-man was standing there like wtf. Yeah that proves something, that Wolverine can tag Spider-man when he's holding back, doesn't see Wolverine as a threat and doesnt even know he's fighting Wolverine. That's all that proves but doesnt help your case at all.
and if that wasn't bad enough, AFTER that happened, after Spiderman could clearly assess he wasn't up against just some goof in a suit, he STILL got pwned. You can "pretend" that doesn't say anything about both parties, speed, but to do so is... "laughable".
Originally posted by jinzinHe doesn't get tagged a lot seeing how most of Carnage's attack are lethal for Spider-man. Still, the guy IS faster than anyone in this thread (except maybe for Tooth) plus he has bullet fast tendrils yet Spider-man's head is still attached after like a dozen long battles with him. You can't just ignore that. So yeah, that kinda proves he can dodge anyone on this thread for a long time and not get cut.
For one, he also gets tagged A LOT in his encounters with Carnage, and two.. Carnage suffers HEAVY CIS... You don't see Spiderman dance around Brock right?
Originally posted by jinzinRead that fight, bad example. Carnage wasn't even using his speed there, he didn't even take the fight seriously which is the main reason he got three claws stuck up his ass.
'Sides Black Cat's fought Carnage a few times and takes a lil bit before getting caught up... Wolverine fought Carnage and the only damage he took was when Carnage bit his bone claws... I'm not sure if you can look at fights with Carnage and somehow determine the characters he's fighting are immaculate in their speed and dodging ability. 😕
Originally posted by jinzinLeave that for the off-topic thread.
That's fine, you can have a belief and be wrong. Just look at religion and evolution...
Originally posted by jinzinNo, not that one. In that book Wolverine went to see Shang Chi before fighting Tooth. Anyway, I guess that wasn't the 616 or you would've heard, so nvrm.
Actually that's not a belief that's a fact stated on panel, proven on panel and confirmed by both characters as well as third parties.
The only fight they've ever had near a waterfall I can remember is in the Ultimates verse and Tooth was winning.