Best saber duelists

I'm loathe to put Obi-Wan in the definite top ten. He's never really regarded for his skills outside of his prominence in negotiation and tactical skills.

He's always considered an above average Jedi, nothing more or less.

see, the ROTS novelization is completely inconsistent with the rest of the sources we have on kenobi.

Using that source alone, he is a great duelist. He defeats Grievous with ease, because the council decided HE would be the one most capable of doing so. (Mace quote) He dominates a fight with Sith Anakin,(according to the novel, not such an easy win on-screen.) and wins in the end.

The other sources do put him in a much more average light, its true. Though he handles ventress with pitiful ease (not THAT great an accomplishment, admittedly) in the Clone Wars.

I'm not sure who i would put above him though. I couldn't put grievous after he lost the head to head, perhaps Maul, but Maul has fewer impressive wins than Kenobi does.

Its just ROTS seems a bit out of whack with the rest of the universe.

To be fair, the novelization makes it perfectly clear that Obi-Wan was essentially being buttfvcked by the Force in all his engagements with Grievous; there is even one standout line that says something like how Grievous's Magnaguards were "far beyond Obi-Wan's ability to defeat" but that the Force was using him as a vessel and someshit.

Kudos to Matthew Stover for trying to rationalize Grievous's vacation in the little western town of Suckville, USA.

thats very true. But according to this thread, it included their ability to use the force to aid in saber battles, so i figured he needed to be included. He consistently uses the force to become a stronger combatant than he should be capable of.

No, I said that they could not have the force, this is just raw skill......

but then Grievous is >>> than all? I thought you specifically answered that question to the contrary? Jedi use the force to fight with sabers. Without it, they are all behind Grievous or even Boba fett for that matter.

Good God you guys! 4 pages in as many hours? WTF!?!?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
ROFLROFLROFL. So wait, Anakin is a prodigy, Yoda is a prodigy, Mace is a prodigy, but Yoda..ISNT? Wow that made my day. I can see why the smart people don't come to KMC on saturday. Absolutely hilarious.

FAIL. You realize that you are also on KMC on a Saturday?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Thanks, I appreciate it after your 20 second responses. I'll just leave everyone who reads this thread with this, for a good laugh for labor day weekend:

You have fast responses sometimes. All it means is that they clicked the refresh button?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Ok, and the notion of 900 years not aiding in his ability to be as good as he is, is also ludicrous. That's all I'm saying.

DS:
You seem to be mistaking a factor of Yoda's skill for the determinant of Yoda's skill. No one is saying that it is irrelevant. It has to be noted, however, that having 800 years would help one master any skill. This cannot be disputed. The midichlorians would put a ceiling on just how good he could get, as well as a floor for his beginning level, but the actualization of that potential is due to the time taken in practice.

See: Leia Skywalker

Beef - I don't know about Marvel, but i never said, or meant to insinuate that Yoda was not a prodigy. My entire point was that despite whatever natural skill he already has, his training for over an 800 period made him as good as he is. Like Gideon said, Dooku was a prodigy and was merely a "joke" to Anakin once he came into his own. You have said that all Yoda had done for 800 years was occasionally spar... do you care to prove that? When dealing with someone with a work ethic, or just ethics in general, like Yoda, why would you assume that he wasn't always trying to to better himself over his many years? You've yet to answer that.

EDIT: RN, what I got out of his posts was that his centuries of training had nothing to do with his level of skill, when it did. He had the same midi count at 200 that he did at 700, the difference is the 500 years of practice inbetween. That was my entire point. And the comparison to Anakin was to point out that after 23 years, he was on the top tier of saber skills right along with, if not above, Yoda himself. Not trying to be a dick, but does that make sense the way I'm saying it?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Beef - do you care to prove that?

Spoiler:
he doesn't do proof

Beginning to notice. He's quite the sidestepped.

his centuries of training had nothing to do with his level of skill, when it did.

If this was his point then you've destroyed it.

If it wasn't (and I sincerely hope that it was not) then the issue was merely on emphasis. That is a topic open to discussion, rather than debate. Discussion is less confrontational.

If this is to be a debate then you will win, as the idea that practice is insignificant is laughable.

That's just the way I took it. I was discussing rather than debating or arguing. Still feeling out the old stomping grounds.

This is all interesting. I guess I have the same view as DS on this though.

I vaguely recall some fangirl making an argument for Kyle Katarn this one time... it wasn't very good from what I remember though. 😂

We don't have enough proof of this to have a view on it. All you're doing is making assumptions.

You don't know if, Yoda was already unstoppable at his thirties and didn't get better over the years or if he kept getting better until RotS.

I've never even remotely implied Yoda's age had nothing to do with his skill. I dont expect TJ to know how to read but subjekt and RH come on. It was also a response to Marvel who said he had skill ONLY because of his skill. And don't pay any attention to Tj, he is just mad he got his ass kicked.

truejedi
Though he handles ventress with pitiful ease (not THAT great an accomplishment, admittedly) in the Clone Wars.

Do I need to push you off a building?

RN
DS:
You seem to be mistaking a factor of Yoda's skill for the determinant of Yoda's skill. No one is saying that it is irrelevant. It has to be noted, however, that having 800 years would help one master any skill. This cannot be disputed. The midichlorians would put a ceiling on just how good he could get, as well as a floor for his beginning level, but the actualization of that potential is due to the time taken in practice.

See: Leia Skywalker

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I've never even remotely implied Yoda's age had nothing to do with his skill. I don't expect TJ to know how to read but subjekt and RH come on. It was also a response to Marvel who said he had skill ONLY because of his skill. And don't pay any attention to Tj, he is just mad he got his ass kicked.

Originally posted by Eminence
😐

Do I need to push you off a building?

por que?

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
DS:
You seem to be mistaking a factor of Yoda's skill for the determinant of Yoda's skill. No one is saying that it is irrelevant. It has to be noted, however, that having 800 years would help one master any skill. This cannot be disputed. The midichlorians would put a ceiling on just how good he could get, as well as a floor for his beginning level, but the actualization of that potential is due to the time taken in practice.