Originally posted by id369
Nate has never accessed those vast energy reserves and live to brag about them. The one time he did, he instantly overloaded himself and died.What keeps Nate going intangible and ripping his heart out. You mean besides the shields? How about Kyle going intangible himself.
Yes he has, when he first appear in the 616 universe, he forced Xavier right out of the Astral Plane.
And when has Kyle gone intangible?
Originally posted by DarthZoom
Yes he has, when he first appear in the 616 universe, he forced Xavier right out of the Astral Plane.And when has Kyle gone intangible?
Thats more or less Nate's ability to manipulate the astral plane into the real world. A feat previously thought to be impossible.
Kyle went intangible in GLv3 around issue 160's.
Originally posted by id369
Thats more or less Nate's ability to manipulate the astral plane into the real world. A feat previously thought to be impossible.
No, thats not what it said on panel, Xavier was painfully forced out. His astral form wasn't brought into the real world.
Kyle went intangible in GLv3 around issue 160's. [/B]
Was that as Original Ion?
Originally posted by DarthZoom
No, thats not what it said on panel, Xavier was painfully forced out. His astral form wasn't brought into the real world.
He was able to pull my astral self into the real world - Xavier (X-Man #11)
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0268/X-Man_011_Large09
Originally posted by DarthZoomWas that as Original Ion?
No, plain every day Green Lantern Kyle.
Originally posted by id369
[B]coffee1
I really don’t feel like arguing useless schematics. Its not like Nate will pull Kyle from the astral plane. But here keep note.He was able to pull my astral self into the real world - Xavier (X-Man #11)
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0268/X-Man_011_Large09
Thats not the example I'm talking about. When Nate frist arrived, Xavier was exploring the Astral Plane and experienced such agony from X-man's presence there that he was forced out. He was swimming in a pool at the time if I recall correctly.
No, plain every day Green Lantern Kyle.
Can you find out the issue number?
Originally posted by DarthZoom
Thats not the example I'm talking about. When Nate frist arrived, Xavier was exploring the Astral Plane and experienced such agony from X-man's presence there that he was forced out. He was swimming in a pool at the time if I recall correctly.
Originally posted by DarthZoomCan you find out the issue number?
Phasing through matter, was never an ability outside of the reach of a GL. Even for post crisis Green Lanterns.
Green Lantern - Legacy
An explanation of what it means to be a Green Lantern and Manipulate its power by Hal Jordan.
“The ring responds to will power simple as that.” - Hal
But what can it do? - Tom
“Anything, everything if you will it…happens” - Hal“It forges dreams and thoughts into matter. It reads minds. It let’s you fly, become invisible, pass through walls, teleport through space, walk through time” - Hal
“You become your imagination, there’s nothing else like it.” - Hal
http://g.imagehost.org/0402/GLLegacy_pg057.jpg
http://g.imagehost.org/0636/GLLegacy_pg058.jpg
Originally posted by id369
Ok I know of the instance. But that in it of itself, holds little value in a confrontation. Kyle does not relay on the psi or the astral plane.
And your point would be? It still shows Nate has TP beyond that of Xavier and GL's have trouble with second string TP's like Hector Hammond.
Thanks for the scans, okay so that attack may not work, although, if Black Lanterns can rip out their hearts why wouldn't Nate be able to? Just asking.
Originally posted by DarthZoom
And your point would be? It still shows Nate has TP beyond that of Xavier and GL's have trouble with second string TP's like Hector Hammond.Thanks for the scans, okay so that attack may not work, although, if Black Lanterns can rip out their hearts why wouldn't Nate be able to? Just asking.
I would not go as far as to say, Hector Hammond being a second string telepath. But that’s besides the point, since Kyle has never fought against Hammond to being with. Kyle has had encounters with Psimon, and the Controllers. For those instances we find out, that has a resilient mental fortitude because he overcame their mind control.
The point that you brought up of Nate ripping out Kyle’s heart by messing with molecular density is actually not out of the question. However this happened when the shields have failed to defend against such attack, or not making use of his other ability set. Like going intangible.
That’s the mistake your making, holding on to the instances when the shields have failed. And completely ignore where they have bin successful against more stressing moments. Like flying strait into the massive event horizon that threaten the entire multiverse.
Kyle has had encounters with Psimon, and the Controllers. For those instances we find out, that has a resilient mental fortitude because he overcame their mind control.
Okay so your putting them on par with a TP power that beats out Xavier handidly?
The point that you brought up of Nate ripping out Kyle’s heart by messing with molecular density is actually not out of the question. However this happened when the shields have failed to defend against such attack, or not making use of his other ability set. Like going intangible.
Originally posted by DarthZoom
Okay so your putting them on par with a TP power that beats out Xavier handidly?
Psimon wrecks planets. The Controllers are equivalent to Guardians of the Universe. Draw your own conclusion, but those are not weak characters.
Originally posted by DarthZoom
This actually brings up a whole new debate. Is Ion's power in this feild greater then Nates? If one goes intagible, can the other force them back into solid form? And if not, then wouldn't that render this match a stalemate?
Who is the greater energy/matter manipulator of the two?
Originally posted by id369
Psimon wrecks planets. The Controllers are equivalent to Guardians of the Universe. Draw your own conclusion, but those are not weak characters.
Shadow King can do the same and Nate is stronger then him. Keep in mind Nate's psionic power is on par with the Phoenix.
Who is the greater energy/matter manipulator of the two?
To be honest not sure.
Originally posted by DarthZoom
Shadow King can do the same and Nate is stronger then him. Keep in mind Nate's psionic power is on par with the Phoenix.
His potential my rival the Phoenix. He cant risk, tapping into that potential because his body cant handle the strain.
The Phoenix Force destroys suns, tosses moons, ignites planets. Could vary well wipe out a Galaxy, on a whim. Nate has not shown even remotely this level of power, because of the risk he run of going into critical mass.
Originally posted by DarthZoom
To be honest not sure.
Originally posted by id369
His potential my rival the Phoenix. He cant risk, tapping into that potential because his body cant handle the strain.
For starters. At best, Nate (Cable) has shown matter manipulation across the globe. Kyle has recreated an entire planet on two separate occasions.
Example:
You have a gun that fires at 10 meters, I have a rocket laucher that only fire 5 meters. Range isn't the same as power output. I agree with you that Ion most likely has a greater range.
Originally posted by DarthZoom
As I said telepathically he has.
Nate falls short to the telepathic feats performed by the Phoenix. Because if he did, I would have referenced it in either Phoenix or X-Man’s respect thread.
Originally posted by DarthZoomThat shows a greater distance, but not nessecairly a greater level of power.
Example:
You have a gun that fires at 10 meters, I have a rocket laucher that only fire 5 meters. Range isn't the same as power output. I agree with you that Ion most likely has a greater range.
An entire planet was rendered to cinders and debris. Kyle effectively molded it back together. How is this a lack of power? Nate has nothing to show that level matter manipulation.
Originally posted by id369In the same comic, Marty, using Hal's tactics, put Psi shields over himself and Tom, that completely nullified any Psi attacks from Martian Manhunter.
Ok I know of the instance. But that in it of itself, holds little value in a confrontation. Kyle does not relay on the psi or the astral plane.Green Lantern v3 #167 pg20
http://h.imagehost.org/0219/20_10.jpgPhasing through matter, was never an ability outside of the reach of a GL. Even for post crisis Green Lanterns.
[B]Green Lantern - Legacy
An explanation of what it means to be a Green Lantern and Manipulate its power by Hal Jordan.
http://g.imagehost.org/0402/GLLegacy_pg057.jpg
http://g.imagehost.org/0636/GLLegacy_pg058.jpg [/B]
Originally posted by id369
Nate falls short to the telepathic feats performed by the Phoenix. Because if he did, I would have referenced it in either Phoenix or X-Man’s respect thread.
You must've missed it, I would consider forcing Xavier out of the astral plane to be a more impressive feat then anything the Phoenix accomplished when it faced Xavier.
An entire planet was rendered to cinders and debris. Kyle effectively molded it back together. How is this a lack of power? Nate has nothing to show that level matter manipulation.
Was that not Original Ion? Let me be clear, I think Original Ion would win, but not post IC Ion.
In the same comic, Marty, using Hal's tactics, put Psi shields over himself and Tom, that completely nullified any Psi attacks from Martian Manhunter.
Who is Marty? And like I said guys like Hector Hammond give GL's trouble.
Originally posted by DarthZoomMarty is Hal's good side manifest from Hal Jordan's power, while Hal Jordan was dead. Sort of a fail-safe Hal left behind during Final Night.
Who is Marty? And like I said guys like Hector Hammond give GL's trouble.
When Hal had trouble keeping his concentration against Hammond as a rookie, Sinestro mocked him that he could actually lose his concentration to a telepath.
In the current Green Lantern run, when Hal went t see Hammond, he had to specifically lower his defenses to allow Hammond into his mind. He simply couldn't otherwise.
Originally posted by Juntai
In the current Green Lantern run, when Hal went t see Hammond, he had to specifically lower his defenses to allow Hammond into his mind. He simply couldn't otherwise. [/B]
I don't think it spacifically stated he couldn't otherwise, do you have a scan?
In Green Lantern 80-Page Giant #2 he is able to exert control over a GL. Impluse had to pull the Lantern away to save him.
And I'm not saying Nate would be able to control them forever, but should be able to long enough.
Also as I said how is Kyle supposed to kill Nate?
