Just for anyone wondering:
How many sith have there been in the entire order's history (not just the famous ones)?
Now count how many Kenobi CAN'T beat
Now divide that number by the total number of sith.
Now multiply it by 100.
Now put a percentage sign next to it.
You'll see that the percentage is far less than 0.1%.
Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Do you believe that you're the only one who understands that there have been an assload of Sith Lords in the SW universe? Most are unknowns and so we have no idea if Obi-Wan could beat them or not.
By "unknowns" do you mean sith like Ragnos and Revan that are powerful but it's unkown HOW powerful?
Or just random run of the mill no name sith that we never heard about and never will?
Most of the former are superior/close to Kenobi, but all of the latter are no where close.
Here's my scale:
1. Obi-Wan makes mincemeat out of Darth Maul, Darth Zannah, and anyone from Krayt's Sith Order including Krayt himself.
2. Dooku for a debatable outcome
3. Even with Vader
4. Dies against anyone above Vader's level (That's Exar Kun, Darth Caedus, Post-Russan Bane, Orbalisk Bane, and both versions of Sidious)
Originally posted by Gideon
Don't bother. The guy just told me that Yoda may be better than Obi-Wan, but he's definitely not better than Obi-Wan and a starfleet. I think I've lost IQ points from reading his bullshit.Put him on ignore and be done with it.
So Obi Wan with a fleet can't beat Yoda?
And you always take everything I say literally. It was an exaggeration to show that Sidious > Bane doesn't mean that Sidious > Bane with ORBALISKS.
Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Can you prove this?
Former I can't because they're unknowns, just educated speculation really.
Latter I can, because those sith are no name for a reason.
Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Jedi are only put on the council for their combat abilities?
No, but all of them are also remarkable fighters compared to random jedi/sith.
Think about it: Obi Wan is THE master of Soresu, beat Maul (albeit due to Maul's overconfidence) and Grevious.
No name sith are just average, random sith that can't hope to stand up to someone that is not a no name due to his superior skill in combat, the Force, diplomacy and legacy.
Originally posted by DarthDaniel1001Uh, how exactly does he make "mincemeat" out of Maul, when Maul is his superior and defeated and all but killed Kenobi, after killing Qui Gonn while being injured? Together the Jedi team was no match for Maul, let alone Ob1 by himself. OB1 even had to tap into the darkside to defeat Maul in the very end. If Maul wasn't so sure that victory was his and finished him while he had the chance (however the story wouldn't allow that), then OB1 would have been SOL.
Here's my scale:
1. Obi-Wan makes mincemeat out of Darth Maul, Darth Zannah, and anyone from Krayt's Sith Order including Krayt himself.
Originally posted by DarthDaniel1001How is Dooku pwning OB1 TWICE a debateable outcome? As a Jedi, Dooku was one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order's 25,000 year history and was an even greater Sith. He was the foremost lightsaber instructor in the Order, and had a wealth of knowledge in all saber forms and mastered the finest lightsaber form to it's highest degree. He was one of only two people to ever defeat Mace, and has 8 decades of experience, some of which were during the turbulent times of the Clone Wars.
2. Dooku for a debatable outcome
Sorry, OB1 loses here too.
Originally posted by DarthDaniel1001Uh... how so? Even in RoTS it was stated that Anakin/Vader was the more powerful of the two, OB1 just had the experience edge along with not having his mind a judgment clouded by the darkside, as Anakin did before he learned how to control it. Vader is 80% of ROTJ Sidious, who is a league or two above OB1. He got a lucky hit on an enraged Anakin and had no chance of beating him in ANH, hence the suicide move.
3. Even with Vader
Originally posted by DarthDaniel1001There's a few more as well. All in all, he's defeated by more than he beats.
4. Dies against anyone above Vader's level (That's Exar Kun, Darth Caedus, Post-Russan Bane, Orbalisk Bane, and both versions of Sidious)
His only chance is his Soresu (spelling?) which will only by him time. He can run, but just die tired.
He only beat GG because of his form, and because GG has no force ability AND it should be mentioned that he had to kill him with a blaster... not his saber.
Originally posted by Darth SubjektI agree on almost everything. The part about Zannah, I think it would be even. She uses Soresu in my inference is correct, and she also has sith sorcery (albeit difficult to use in combat, she only needs a second) along with her command of the force which, I must add, had the ppotential to surpass Bane, who would have mauled Kenobi.
Uh, how exactly does he make "mincemeat" out of Maul, when Maul is his superior and defeated and all but killed Kenobi, after killing Qui Gonn while being injured? Together the Jedi team was no match for Maul, let alone Ob1 by himself. OB1 even had to tap into the darkside to defeat Maul in the very end. If Maul wasn't so sure that victory was his and finished him while he had the chance (however the story wouldn't allow that), then OB1 would have been SOL.How is Dooku pwning OB1 TWICE a debateable outcome? As a Jedi, Dooku was one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order's 25,000 year history and was an even greater Sith. He was the foremost lightsaber instructor in the Order, and had a wealth of knowledge in all saber forms and mastered the finest lightsaber form to it's highest degree. He was one of only two people to ever defeat Mace, and has 8 decades of experience, some of which were during the turbulent times of the Clone Wars.
Sorry, OB1 loses here too.
Uh... how so? Even in RoTS it was stated that Anakin/Vader was the more powerful of the two, OB1 just had the experience edge along with not having his mind a judgment clouded by the darkside, as Anakin did before he learned how to control it. Vader is 80% of ROTJ Sidious, who is a league or two above OB1. He got a lucky hit on an enraged Anakin and had no chance of beating him in ANH, hence the suicide move.
There's a few more as well. All in all, he's defeated by more than he beats.
His only chance is his Soresu (spelling?) which will only by him time. He can run, but just die tired.
He only beat GG because of his form, and because GG has no force ability AND it should be mentioned that he had to kill him with a blaster... not his saber.
Also about Maul, that was a padawan Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan at his best may have been able to kill him, can some1 give me a list of feats for Maul and the force and a saber plz? (plz make sure in force that it works on jedi, so mind tricks wouldnt be usable)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So Obi Wan with a fleet can't beat Yoda?And you always take everything I say literally. It was an exaggeration to show that Sidious > Bane doesn't mean that Sidious > Bane with ORBALISKS.
Former I can't because they're unknowns, just educated speculation really.
Latter I can, because those sith are no name for a reason.
Yeah but sidious > bane with the orbalisks.
Well I didn't mention Zannah, just Maul, but yea.
OB1 may have been a padawan, but QGJ certainly wasn't, and he was said to have been better than the duo. QGJ was said to have been among the most gifted Jedi with the living force, and an excellent swordsman.
Maul, after being tired and famined, attacked Sidious and nearly killed him whith his saber. Of course that was until Sidious traced Maul's body with his saber to calm him down, but the fact that once the rage took over he was still able to put forth a great attempt at killing his master. He defeated Anoon who's lightsaber skills were "second to none" in the entire order.
Here's more:
Darth Maul was a highly skilled lightsaber duelist, trained by Darth Sidious in Juyo, which drew heavily on volatile emotions and the dark side. However, Maul only devoted himself to Form VII's physical focus, desiring pure physical victory, rather than the "higher" Sith tradition of Dun Möch; dominating the opponents spirit and exposing his inner doubts through taunts and psychological warfare. In addition to this, Maul had training in Niman lightsaber combat and the Jar'Kai dual-saber technique, as well as mastery of the fighting style of Teräs Käsi. When fighting multiple opponents, Maul extended the second blade of his lightsaber to form a saberstaff, doubling his lethality as Jedi rarely faced such a weapon, or a skilled practitioner in its use. Maul often used this to catch opponents by surprise. Maul had constructed the weapon himself, using ancient plans stored within one of the holocrons the Sith still possessed. He had based his lightsaber design upon that of Darth Zannah's weapon, which in turn had been a development on Exar Kun's original design. It is likely that this choice also came from his species' penchant for the zhaboka, a similar weapon.
Unlike the traditional dueling techniques of most Jedi, Maul combined his swordsmanship with martial arts and hand-to-hand combat skills—a combination which made him a nearly unstoppable dervish of destruction.
Maul displayed a reasonable amount of competence in telekinesis, utilizing Force Grip and Force Choke while interrogating Hath Monchar, and being able to activate a set of door controls behind him with a flung piece of wreckage.
Maul also demonstrated a resistance to Force lightning, shrugging off a barrage unleashed by the Night Sister Mighella while hunting for Alexi Garyn.
Darth Maul was skilled in combining Force talents with mechanics. Sidious gave Maul the funds and schematics he needed, and provided his apprentice with a secret facility on Coruscant in which to work. There Maul constructed his signature speeder bike Bloodfin and the Dark Eye seeker droids. Using the Force mechanical skill mechu-deru, Maul modified the protocol droid C-3PX into an assassin droid to guard his ship.
Other talentsDue to his Zabrak heritage and his intense training at the hands of Darth Sidious, Maul was able to withstand immense amounts of physical pain.
When crippling the Black Sun Syndicate Maul came across an Iktotchi Guard who in turn attempted to read his mind in order to find who sent him and who he was hunting. Maul let him but the Iktotchi was soon incapacitated because of the darkness of his mind. Maul then neutralized the guard.
Maul had also mastered the use of the Sith lanvarok.
Sidious also gave Maul a powerful Sith Infiltrator called Scimitar which contained a cloaking shield generator. This vehicle was developed by Raith Sienar, the man whose company would later develop the TIE/ln starfighter for the Empire.