If Captain Marvel is an 100..

Originally posted by h1a8 I don't believe Thor can shatter worlds even with Mjolnir. With that said Thor can't even destroy 1/1000 of a mountain with his fists. And that is the truth.

Bullshit. Beta Ray Bill has one shotted planets. There is more evidence to Thor being able to shatter planets, than there is that Superman can.

That is utter bullshit. Mjolnir does not amp his strength in anyway. It’s role in his striking feats are purely mechanical. Even when I provided scans, you still refuse to believe Thor’s level of strength. It’s nothing but utter ignorance. This isn’t how powerful you think Thor should be, but how powerful he has shown to be with his strength.

Mountains > Planets/Worlds

Amirite?

And just for fun, Thor cleaves a mountain in two:

Originally posted by h1a8 No need to prove as it is common sense to anyone who has read Thor.

Despite the fact that his greatest feats of strength come from without Mjolnir, and even his striking force has been stated to be world wrecking, without Mjolnir, you still have this notion that he is astronomically weaker without Mjolnir currently? Cool.

Wonder Woman is astronomically stronger than Superman. I say she is, and so she must be. I like your logic.

Originally posted by h1a8 False. No comic has backed up the lie that Thor has planet shattering strength. He doesn't even have mountain shattering strength. And no it hasn't been shown. Thor is weak dude in comparison to Superman. Very weak.

So you’re clearly ignoring Thor’s feats to justify this conclusion am I correct?

Originally posted by h1a8 If exaggerated narration is evidence then yes. Otherwise, I would be hard pressed to ignore they actual unquestionable feat.

It would be exaggerated narration, if it only was stated once and didn’t much up to his other feats. That is not the case. It completely matches up, to his level of strength, and is even further backed up by the fact that his inferior, Beta Ray Bill, has one shotted a planet with this force of his blow hitting Stardust. So, no it’s not simple exaggerated narration.

Originally posted by h1a8 I don't believe he has. And if so I don't believe it. Just like I don't believe Sentry can stalemate Galactus.

So we agree, that:

Thor > Beta Ray Bill > Superman

Beta Ray Bill can destroy planets clearly, yet you don’t believe Superman has the strength, and Thor has been shown, to be Beta Ray Bill’s superior. Cool. It’s A, B, C but it makes more sense than some of the other shit being argued here.

Originally posted by h1a8 Also I believe BRB is a lot stronger than Thor anyway. He bested him without even having the power of Thor. Gaining the power of Thor makes him stronger.

You see, that’s the problem right there. What you personally believe means shit, if it doesn’t match up the comics.

Beta Ray Bill is not a lot stronger than Thor, not even close. Thor is his superior actually. I thought this was evident? He bested him with only circumstances as he turned into Donald Blake in the first fight, and in the second fight, Odin placed them in a special battle field where apparently even Gods can die, and in an environment where Beta Ray Bill would have the advantage. He intended for Thor to lose to teach him humility, which was stated in the end of the comic. Thor being stronger was even evident during the recent Secret Invasion arc, the same Super Skrull that was manhandling Beta Ray Bill with a single arm while taking on Asgard couldn’t even make Thor bleed, and Thor not only did not use the small portion of the Odin Force, according to Fraction, he was severely weakened as that how he intended the time line to be. Also, Beta Ray Bill got an ass beating during Blood and Thunder.

In the case of Beta Ray Bill, Simonson, did not have the hammer amp up his strength to any level above Thor.

Originally posted by h1a8 With that said, those magical hammers [b]can supply extra momentum to the strike due to them having to obey their master's commands. For example, we all know that Mjolnir comes to Thor upon his command. It flies through the air. So when Thor is striking, the hammer can supply extra momentum by moving in the direction with Thor's swing. Helping him sort of. [/b]

That’s cool, and a smart tactic. Too bad it was never stated Thor or Beta Ray Bill were using it to assist them.

Originally posted by h1a8 The problem is it isn't backed up. Meaning, there is no evidence that backs it up.

Just because you refuse to ignore the evidence, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Originally posted by h1a8 I never used a unquantifiable feat.

Lol. Was it not, you who brought up the Superman: Beyond incident? Was it not you, that brought up the instance Superman/Wonder Woman held up Spectre? Do I have to quote you? I will.

It’s okay for you do it, but it’s not okay when I start bringing up the feats right?

Originally posted by h1a8 Read the 5th post down (my post). http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=503446&pagenumber=5

Nice post, but for all I know it could be gibberish. Throwing in the fact, that Kyle was somehow reducing the gravitional affects on Earth or whatever he was doing, would throw everything out of whack would it not? As well, moving the Earth requires self propelled motion and is not a feat of pure strength. The part that really, reduces it’s validility is this:

Originally posted by h1a8 The most I've seen Thor lift (while struggling) was a 500-1000 ton creature. So Superman being a billion times stronger than Thor is very generous indeed.

Originally posted by h1a8 Thor never overpowered the weight of half the planet.

And this is why you should read the comics of the characters you are attempting to debate about.

Originally posted by h1a8 He lifted a mostly ghostly Snake with the help of a magical boat.

Again, how could it be ghostly if it was crushing the Earth in it’s grip, and Asgardian’s used it as a bridge to Earth? I mean seriously. For someone who attempts to apply physics and math to comics, you don’t use common sense.

Originally posted by h1a8 Of course he would shrug off those blasts, I already said he is very durable in the energy projection department.

Cool.

Originally posted by h1a8 But guess what Superman is too and would do the same in his own comic.

If that’s what you think.

Originally posted by h1a8 Looks like armor to me.

Are you blind? Thor’s armor was a strip of cloth running down the middle of his chest. Those bullets were rebounding of his sides.

Here are a few other times, Thor’s been unharmed by bullets.

Guns from Space Policemen? No problem.

Shit here he takes the Starblazer completely unharmed. It’s like a cosmically powered gun. Last encounter, he jumped Thor and shot him, it only stunned him and the force of the shot was so powerful, it put down Iron Man/Vision who were besides him at the time.

Seriously, you have Iron Man even saying shit, like his armor is nowhere as strong as Thor’s skin in the past.

His taken exploding rocket penetrating missiles (Some powerful artillery.) at point blank range completely unharmed, while the Demon who was next to him (Who can shrug off grenades, catch bullets in his palms etc.) was knocked the hell out. His taken, heavy cannons at point blank range unharmed. I got plenty of evidence of Thor being unharmed by this shit, but one showing in an issue where the writer had Thor at Captain America’s level physically, and suddenly Thor can be harmed right?

Shit, Hercules in the next Deadpool comic, is taking point blank bullets/shells to his exposed eyes and face, and is going to be unharmed completely.

Originally posted by h1a8 Exploding Gas station > bullets and blades. My point is that Thor's low showing are much lower than Superman's. Thus he is weaker and less durable. He's more evidence. Logan will most definitely can slice Thor up. Yet he can't even put a scratch on Superman.

sly

Much weaker, than Superman and less durable? Even using the low showings of Thor being shot which is clear P.I.S and Superman taking an exploding gas station and being knocked out, the conclusion we come to, is Thor is tougher, while Superman’s skin is harder to penetrate. But at the end of the day, P.I.S is just that P.I.S. One instance does not stand above a character’s entire history.

When have blades harmed Thor unless there were circumstances? When Asgardians try to cut Thor their weapons break. Even Volstag whose a Class 50 took an axe to Thor’s chest and it broke.Thor while severely weakened has taken a slash from Ares Adamantine axe to the exposed and naked throat, without a scratch. He recently took a slash from a Super Skrull stronger than Beta Ray Bill while she had the Stormbreaker Axe and was unharmed. Hell, Thor has taken a slash from Perrikus scythe to the chest unharmed. Perrikus cut Mjolnir in half as if it was made out of clay. If a blade can cut Thor, it can cut Superman.

And it’s not as if Superman cannot be cut or anything along those lines, etc. Wonder Woman slashed his throat opened, and could cut him with her sword easily.

Marvel will have Logan cut anyone short of Juggernaut and Norrin at this point. If they had the chance, they’d have him cut Superman. Recently Thor took a direct slash from a pissed of Logan to the cheek who thought he was Sabertooth, with so little damage I’ve had worse papercuts. He didn’t even puncture the skin at points. It’s not a good showing based on Thor’s other feats of penetration, but in general? Easily a good showing. This is Wolverine. If they won’t let him cut Thor what would his threat even be? This way it won’t be completely hopeless.

Originally posted by h1a8 It is all in the writer's mind. That is all the proof we need. It is common sense that Stan Lee didn't want Thor to be bulletproof. Otherwise he wouldn't had him block bullets. At least bullets put stings on Thor is why he was blocking them.

Thor blocks bullets because he can. Not because he has to. There is a difference.

Originally posted by h1a8 When I say stronger than Hulk I'm talking about over 99% of all appearances of Hulk. Thus it is safe to say that Superman is stronger than Hulk. Put potentially, yes Hulk could match and even exceed Superman. But for practical purposes that won't happen.

Hulk’s strength is proportional to the threat. Place him against Thing, and he’ll hold his own and beat him, eventually. Place him against Wonder Man, and he’ll hold his own and eventually beat him. Place him against Superman or Thor and he will amp up their level as well. It’s all relative to the threat.

Originally posted by h1a8 Comics don't move. So of course a still picture looks like Superman is not moving. Duh. But in the next issue we see that Superman wasn't koed.

facepalm

No they don’t move but the art indicates a sign of movement. If Superman is portrayed lying on the ground with his eyes closed, then it’s pretty safe to say his down, even if temporarily. In the next comic, the first thing we do see, is Superman down lying, unmoving. A few panels later, he starts stirring and rubbing his head, and speaking with a shaky voice as I recall. Even pages later, as he flies at Konvict, Wonder Woman comments that the punch weakened him more than he realized etc. Lol, a single punch.

Originally posted by h1a8 I'm not trolling. You just didn't understand my words. Juggs can trade punches with nearly anyone doesn't mean he is as strong. I would say his durability is astronomically more than his strength. Durability doesn't equal strength. WW taking hits from Konvict gives credit to her durability and not strength. Thus going toe to toe with someone doesn't prove you are as strong.

That depends on who you ask. Makes more sense than the other shit that’s been said, and I don’t care enough to address anything.

Looks like you're a month late.

School, work have been a *****. I'll probably not log in for another week or so after this weekend.

Barely have time for my Thor respect thread.

Strength

Superman 101 (all out) (Sundipped 150+)
Silver Surfer 98 (amped)
Wonder Woman 99
Sentry 99
Orion 102
Martian Manhunter 99
Beta Ray Bill 99
Mongul 95
Thor 98 - 100 (WM)
Hulk 95 - 101 (WWH)
Gladiator 100 (full con)

Physical (Str, Speed, Durability (invulnerability))

Superman 100 (Sundipped 150+)
Silver Surfer 99 (amped)
Wonder Woman 98
Sentry 99
Orion 100
Martian Manhunter 98
Beta Ray Bill 98
Mongul 90
Thor 98 - 99 (WM)
Hulk 90 - 99 (WWH)
Gladiator 100 (full con)

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is difficult, as none of these character's have say a set limit, and so on.

Strength:

Superman - 100 (In general.)/ 105 (Not holding back. He does have superior feats as well, which doesn't necessarily count for much as they are shown to be equals, but I think that deserves taking into account.)
Silver Surfer (can amp) - 100 (Higher if we use his ability to amp/absorb energy at the highest level we've seen.)
Wonder Woman - 95
Sentry - 97 (On a good day. Less or even higher depending on emotional state.)
Orion - 100 (In general.)/105 (Not holding back and in berserker state.)
Martian Manhunter - 97
Beta Ray Bill - 100
Mongul (without rings) - 85
Shaggy Man - Depends on incarnation.
Thor - 100 (In General.)/106 (When not holding back. Dude has arguably the largest strength reserve out there outside of amping.)
Hulk - At base he is way down the list, but he can amp in strength. Hard to gauge.
Gladiator - 100 (On a confident day. Lower or higher depending on how confident he is. At his peak he has shown some incredible strength)

I am feeling what you posted. But i know the Hulk ultimately will be #1 in strength 🙂

Originally posted by batdude123
Looks like you're a month late.

Superman- Ranges from 90-105 and with sundip 140
Silver Surfer- 95
Wonder Woman- 90
Sentry- 80-95
Orion- 120
Martian Manhunter- 75
Beta Ray Bill- Don't know enough to make an objective estimate but I'll guess and say 80-90
Mongul- 70-105 (really he seems to range between a pimp smacking tyrant and some chump that sometimes fills Darkseid's role when DS doesn't feel like playing with Superman)
Shaggy Man- 125
Thor- 95
Hulk- 75-130
Gladiator- 70-100

[QUOTE=12226145]Originally posted by Philosophía
[B]..in strength, where do the following characters stand:

Superman 115
Silver Surfer (can amp) 120
Wonder Woman 110
Sentry 110
Orion 110
Martian Manhunter 90
Beta Ray Bill 120
Mongul (without rings) 105
Shaggy Man 110
Thor 120
Hulk 140
Gladiator 150

Superman 105-115
Silver Surfer (can amp) 90-???
Wonder Woman 90
Sentry 100
Orion 100-105
Martian Manhunter 95
Beta Ray Bill 95-100
Mongul (without rings) 105
Shaggy Man 105
Thor 105-110
Hulk 95-???
Gladiator 105-115
Juggernaut 100
Hercules 100
Captain Atom 90

added those 3 cause u just have to... =D

Factoring overall physicall abilities, including speed, skill, durability etc. In short, overall physicall formidability

Superman 105
Silver Surfer 55
Wonder Woman 90
Martian Manhunter 98
Beta Ray Bill 80
Thor 85
Hulk 35
Juggernaut 89
Captain Atom 95

Superman-100 (All direct comparisons show stalemate here)
Silver Surfer (can amp)-98
Wonder Woman-85
Sentry-90
Orion-105
Martian Manhunter-90
Beta Ray Bill-90
Mongul (without rings)-95
Shaggy Man-110
Thor-100
Hulk-95
Gladiator-100

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

And it’s not as if Superman cannot be cut or anything along those lines, etc. Wonder Woman slashed his throat opened, and could cut him with her sword easily.

And we've already been over the Superman not being knocked out thing several times now.

Superman 90
Silver Surfer (can amp) 70
Wonder Woman 70
Sentry 100
Orion
Martian Manhunter 70
Beta Ray Bill 70
Mongul (without rings)
Shaggy Man
Thor 70
Hulk 100+++ depending on how long hes in rage
Gladiator 80

Strength

CM 100 ...(however can amp too)
Superman 100 (maxium against heroes) 150(maxed against villains)
Silver Surfer 100 (potentially) 70 (without amp)
Wonder Woman 98
Sentry 95
Orion 100
Martian Manhunter 95
Beta Ray Bill 90
Mongul (without rings) 85
Shaggy Man 100
Thor 100 (not holding back) 80 (normally)
Hulk 100+(potentially) (base strength = 5 🙁 )
Gladiator 100 (max confidence) 80(base)

Physicaly formidability

CM 100
Superman 115
Silver Surfer 115
Wonder Woman 95
Sentry 110
Orion 100
Martian Manhunter 115
Beta Ray Bill 110
Mongul 100
Shaggy Man 100
Thor 115
Hulk 100
Gladiator 110

its hard to quantify unless specified if its lifting power or striking power IMO...bcuz 3/4 of the ppl on this list can amp..whether by magic, power cosmic, ambient cosmic energy(solar ,gamma, starlight etc.,) calling on patron dieties, or just willing it so.

the Sentry recently learned that he can control molecules, if he dials back the EMO and insanity im sure he can make a rock the size of the Universe weigh 3 pounds....probably.

Superman and Gladiator envelop objects they lift in a tactile TK field, not only to keep them structurally intact but effectively negating most if not all the density of said object so they can literally lift anything they can get a TK field around.

im more partial to striking power myself...cuz we've seen who have shattered planets, planet sized asteroids and mountain ranges with pure locomotive muscle power...

Superman: 100
Silver Surfer: 90
Wonder Woman: 90
Sentry: 80-95
Orion: 100
Martian Manhunter: 85
Beta Ray Bill: 85
Mongul: 80
Shaggy Man: Depends
Thor: 100
Hulk: Can range from 60 to 100+
Gladiator: 85

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is difficult, as none of these character's have say a set limit, and so on.

Strength:

Superman - 100 (In general.)/ 105 (Not holding back. He does have superior feats as well, which doesn't necessarily count for much as they are shown to be equals, but I think that deserves taking into account.)
Silver Surfer (can amp) - 100 (Higher if we use his ability to amp/absorb energy at the highest level we've seen.)
Wonder Woman - 95
Sentry - 97 (On a good day. Less or even higher depending on emotional state.)
Orion - 100 (In general.)/105 (Not holding back and in berserker state.)
Martian Manhunter - 97
Beta Ray Bill - 100
Mongul (without rings) - 85
Shaggy Man - Depends on incarnation.
Thor - 100 (In General.)/106 (When not holding back. Dude has arguably the largest strength reserve out there outside of amping.)
Hulk - At base he is way down the list, but he can amp in strength. Hard to gauge.
Gladiator - 100 (On a confident day. Lower or higher depending on how confident he is. At his peak he has shown some incredible strength)

Orion 'In general' is a massive ***. His power level is King of Inconsistency

Lord - this arguing over decimal points... 🙄