Originally posted by h1a8Examples?
^I understand that. I'm just inferring from comics. Maybe it's psychological but certainly Thor doesn't seem as physically strong or durable without the possession of Mjolnir. I mean everytime someone knocks it away he becomes somewhat weaker (especially in the durability department).
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol. Dude was put down by a Gas Station. Still in continuity.What's the point of this discussion again?
That's your example? Clark was punched in the face. He fell down. He wasn't moving at all. He was portrayed clearly out of it. It was a momentarily knock out. What else was it?
In the next issue, it was stated that Konvict weakened him more than he fought. I believe it was Wonder Woman who stated it.
before a very bluntly stated upgrade.
you tell me.
and i disagree. he invited the punch. he fell down. he got back up barely seconds later. i don't think he was unconscious.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is difficult, as none of these character's have say a set limit, and so on.Strength:
Superman - 100 (In general.)/ 105 (Not holding back. He does have superior feats as well, which doesn't necessarily count for much as they are shown to be equals, but I think that deserves taking into account.)
Silver Surfer (can amp) - 100 (Higher if we use his ability to amp/absorb energy at the highest level we've seen.)
Wonder Woman - 95
Sentry - 97 (On a good day. Less or even higher depending on emotional state.)
Orion - 100 (In general.)/105 (Not holding back and in berserker state.)
Martian Manhunter - 97
Beta Ray Bill - 100
Mongul (without rings) - 85
Shaggy Man - Depends on incarnation.
Thor - 100 (In General.)/106 (When not holding back. Dude has arguably the largest strength reserve out there outside of amping.)
Hulk - At base he is way down the list, but he can amp in strength. Hard to gauge.
Gladiator - 100 (On a confident day. Lower or higher depending on how confident he is. At his peak he has shown some incredible strength)
Agree with everything but for the Hulk.
Hulk would start at 95/96, en reach 106/107 or a little bit above. Or a lot above, depending of the version, of the "pissed-off" effect, etc.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Wuuuut? Starting off as like 100 ton counts as 95? So Captain Marvel can only list like 110 ton then? And Hulk can't grow to more than 105 tons or so? That's logical. If Hulk starts out 95, then he would grow to around 200000.
Um the numbers don't represent how many tons they can lift... 😱
Originally posted by h1a8 It was "magically" crushing the Earth. If the boat didn't pull away Thor couldn't move the Serpent completely off the Earth. Thor's arm's are only a few feet in length.
What the hell is that supposed to mean? How does that relate to what we were just talking about? You said only it’s head was material or some other crap. Nice attempt at a dodge.
Thor used a giant fishing rod, on the Serpent, and used his strength to overpower it and force it to release the Earth from its grip. Did you read the comic? It is directly referenced that it is Thor’s strength that overpowers the Serpent and saves the Earth from its grip.
Originally posted by h1a8 Accepted. Well if so then Thor moves up a little notch.
Moves up a little notch? He one shotted a significantly amped Silver Surfer’s Force Field, and easily pounded away Kang’s Force Field, which is ridiculously durable.
Originally posted by h1a8 Plain Hammer my ass. Thor couldn't do nowhere near the damage he can with Mjolnir. His average punches are astronomically weaker than that of hitting with Mjolnir.
The only advantage Mjolnir adds is mechanical. Yes, the blunt force would be greater, but when a being’s strength can shatter worlds, and the same being is nigh invulnerable, it really is inconsequential as the output difference would be incredibly tiny.
Prove it. You keep spouting nonsense, and statements, but you have yet to actually proven it. Prove to me, that Thor’s blows are astronomically weaker than Mjolnir.
The simple fact is that with or without Mjolnir, the comics have backed up the fact that Thor has planet shattering strength. Shit, it’s been shown, that Thor hits just as hard with his fists as he does with Mjolnir in the past.
Originally posted by h1a8 I take narration, especially in the old days, as exaggeration and not the truth. Show me Thor actually wrecking worlds with a punch and then I'll believe it.
So you are ignoring comic book evidence now? Lol.
You’d have a point “maybe” if this was an isolated incident, which was above Thor’s level of strength ever shown but that isn’t the case. Thor has been stated to have planet shattering strength, on more than one occasion, so you really have no argument if you whine, hyperbole and choose to ignore any evidence presented.
Shit, Beta Ray Bill, Thor lite, has wrecked worlds with his blows, so why in the hell would Thor not be able to? I don’t recall Thor ever actually destroying a planet, but neither has someone like say Superman Post-Crisis, but people, believe he has planet shattering strength as well. Hell, an argument for Thor to have planet shattering strength, would be easier to make than one for Superman.
It stops being Hyperbole, when it’s been backed up multiple times. At this point, your trolling, if you start simply ignoring evidence and scans.
Originally posted by h1a8 I dare not use an unquantifiable feat.
Except the times you did.
Originally posted by h1a8 I use feats that can be proven mathematically how strong someone has to be to achieve them. That is how I obtained my greater than "a million" estimate. I will show you if you like.
hysterical
That’s what I’ve been asking you this entire time. Please, prove to me that Superman is a million times stronger than Thor or whatever nonsense your spouting. Show me these so called feats, where you came to the conclusion. No more dodging and other nonsense. You’ve been spouting this nonsense without any factual prove.
Originally posted by h1a8 Honestly, Marvel characters like Hulk and such are on average far weaker than the D.C. characters on Superman level. Superman's lowest strength showings would actual make it as showings in Thor's respect thread. Thor's lowest strength showings couldn't ever happen for Superman [b]ever. This is the truth Ruth. [/B]
facepalm
Do you actually read comics? Have you actually read any Thor or are familiar with any of his feats? Do you even know who Thor is? I honestly think you don’t. Like at all.
Please post these so called showings. When Thor has feats like supporting and easily overpowering the weight of half the planet, withstanding the weight of a score of planets, lifting the Midgard Serpent, shrugging off a blast equivalent to the power of an exploding Sun, withstanding attacks from Odin, Celestial’s, Galactus, Superman being knocked out by a Gas Station isn’t going to fit in here.
I seriously don’t understand how you can come to this conclusion when Thor has strength feats capable of easily matching Superman’s. Lol, at Hulk being far weaker than characters at Superman’s level on average.
Originally posted by h1a8 I don't see it bouncing off his skin. Maybe it's the armor, and maybe it's leaving bothersome welts. lol .
Do I need to circle it for you? You can clearly see bullets bouncing off of his chest, which would be covered in his skin. In that new armor, the chest was only a single strip running down the middle of his chest, while you can clearly see bullets ricocheting from all over his chest.
Originally posted by h1a8 The point is that it proves that Superman has greater durability than Thor. How can you not see that? Superman has been the victim of bad writers too but never been cut and hurt by bullets and blades or even had to block them with a plot device.
eer
The entire point of the Konvict scan was to prove that, just because of one instance, it does not dictate a character’s level of strength, durability etc. if it contradicts an already established, level that is backed up by decade’s worth of showing.
If you believe that scan, is prove that Superman is superior to Thor, than you must also believe that the instance Superman was knocked out by an exploding Gas Station, can just as easily be used as adamant evidence, that Thor is tougher than Superman then right? Or is it double standards, and it only applies when you feel like it?
Seriously, that comic was serious plot induced stupidity. Do you also believe Batman can go blow for with Thor as well, because based on that issue you must, if you believe it to be the only showing of Thor’s supposed true level of power. Stupidity.
Originally posted by h1a8 Originally Stan Lee wrote Thor to not be bulletproof. But rather use his hammer to protect himself from them.
Show me one instance where Stan Lee, had bullets harm Thor. I mean ever. He had him use Mjolnir to block bullets but what does that prove? He had Thor written as nigh invulnerable. He even had Thor shrug off a mortar round back in the day without any harm as I recall.
Originally posted by h1a8 Hulk is weak compared to Superman. Thor being stronger than him means nothing.
facepalm
Hulk is weak compared to Superman? Lol. How the hell is the Hulk is weak compared to Superman? Where the hell do you get this shift from? At best, you can save face by saying you were referring to him at his base, but I honestly don’t believe that was the case, whatsoever. I personally think you actually believe your statement unless you’re just trolling which might also be a possibility. Who knows?
Anyways, the Hulk is not weak compared to Superman. Not weak at all. Based on the Hulk’s power set, when all said is done, the Hulk should be stronger than even him eventually.
Originally posted by h1a8 I like you Rage.
It ain't mutual.
Originally posted by h1a8 First of all Superman wasn't koed.
So what was he doing when he was lying on the ground, eyes closed, unmoving, with no apparent consciousness?
Playing dead?
Originally posted by h1a8 Second, WW couldn't match Konvict's strength. Going toe to toe has nothing to do with strength. Durability, speed, and skill is all you need.
eer
What? How the hell does trading punches with your opponent and being able to hold your own have nothing to do with your strength? Are you honestly this stupid or are you trolling? I’ve never reported anyone in my life, because I enjoy arguments, but dude, at this point your just being silly.
Originally posted by h1a8 He landed a full 100% clean square surprising hit on Superman. Later, when superman was actually fighting him that didn't happen again, no hits were as clean and full and no hits were as suprising. So no contradiction.
Man, you need a personal editor to check your shit over.
If one clean hit, was all that was needed, to put Superman down from such a level of an opponent, than his durability is clearly below Thor’s, except that isn’t the case with Superman’s durability on the norm, hence why I do not use it as evidence as the entire Konvict fight was silly with everyone jobbing, and it would be a contradiction to his already established power set for him to go down so easily. No hits were given again because Superman apparently was smart enough not to try and block his punch with his face again, and tried to not be hit again. That does nothing in regards to his durability and reflects on his skill and speed. You cannot simply dismiss it because you cannot wrap your head around the idea.
Originally posted by h1a8 I disagree. I believe you can lift Mjolnir without gaining superhuman strength if you are worthy. If not, then the hammer is not only a real plot device but a powerful one now isn't it.
First of all what the hell are you talking about? Second, those who are worthy of Mjolnir gain a part of Thor’s powers, which include Super Strength as far as I can tell, when it’s needed.
Originally posted by h1a8 Hulk, Hercules, and Namor are nothing to Superman so who cares.
Lol, no they ain’t.
Originally posted by h1a8 Thor usde a plot device to take away part of Juggs enchantment. Without doing that he couldn't win.
Plot device? He used Mjolnir, something that’s part of his power set to have the ability to defeat Juggernaut. Thor using Mjolnir does not take anything away from Thor. He could also use battle field removal. At least he has options. Outside of battle field removal, Superman would get beat down by Juggernaut in a fight.
Originally posted by h1a8 Plus I'm referring to when he doesn't have the hammer on his person (even within 60 seconds). Not in his hands or on his belt or such. Like being completely knocked away. That first 60 seconds would show a very weak Thor. Take away Thor's hammer and then see how weak he is.
What does him having the hammer on his person change anything? It doesn’t affect his physical stats at all. The only thing it would add to a brawl would be purely mechanical.
No how about you show me. Show me an instance where Thor is supposedly so weak without his hammer. Show me some examples. If I was any less patient, at this point, I’d be considering reporting you for trolling because now, your just wasting my time.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusYes Thor used force. But he wasn't pulling against all of the weight of the Serpent. It is also referenced that the Serpent was in ethereal form. The OHOTMU officially says that only the A section of the serpent was materialized (whatever that means).
What the hell is that supposed to mean? How does that relate to what we were just talking about? You said only it’s head was material or some other crap. Nice attempt at a dodge.Thor used a giant fishing rod, on the Serpent, and used his strength to overpower it and force it to release the Earth from its grip. Did you read the comic? It is directly referenced that it is Thor’s strength that overpowers the Serpent and saves the Earth from its grip.
I don't believe Thor can shatter worlds even with Mjolnir. With that said Thor can't even destroy 1/1000 of a mountain with his fists. And that is the truth.
The only advantage Mjolnir adds is mechanical. Yes, the blunt force would be greater, but when a being’s strength can shatter worlds, and the same being is nigh invulnerable, it really is inconsequential as the output difference would be incredibly tiny.
Prove it. You keep spouting nonsense, and statements, but you have yet to actually proven it. Prove to me, that Thor’s blows are astronomically weaker than Mjolnir. No need to prove as it is common sense to anyone who has read Thor.
The simple fact is that with or without Mjolnir, the comics have backed up the fact that Thor has planet shattering strength. Shit, it’s been shown, that Thor hits just as hard with his fists as he does with Mjolnir in the past. False. No comic has backed up the lie that Thor has planet shattering strength. He doesn't even have mountain shattering strength. And no it hasn't been shown. Thor is weak dude in comparison to Superman. Very weak.
So you are ignoring comic book evidence now? Lol. If exaggerated narration is evidence then yes. Otherwise, I would be hard pressed to ignore they actual unquestionable feat.
You’d have a point “maybe” if this was an isolated incident, which was above Thor’s level of strength ever shown but that isn’t the case. Thor has been stated to have planet shattering strength, on more than one occasion, so you really have no argument if you whine, hyperbole and choose to ignore any evidence presented.
Shit, Beta Ray Bill, Thor lite, has wrecked worlds with his blows, so why in the hell would Thor not be able to? I don’t recall Thor ever actually destroying a planet, but neither has someone like say Superman Post-Crisis, but people, believe he has planet shattering strength as well. Hell, an argument for Thor to have planet shattering strength, would be easier to make than one for Superman. I don't believe he has. And if so I don't believe it. Just like I don't believe Sentry can stalemate Galactus. Also I believe BRB is a lot stronger than Thor anyway. He bested him without even having the power of Thor. Gaining the power of Thor makes him stronger. With that said, those magical hammers can supply extra momentum to the strike due to them having to obey their master's commands. For example, we all know that Mjolnir comes to Thor upon his command. It flies through the air. So when Thor is striking, the hammer can supply extra momentum by moving in the direction with Thor's swing. Helping him sort of.
It stops being Hyperbole, when it’s been backed up multiple times. At this point, your trolling, if you start simply ignoring evidence and scans.
The problem is it isn't backed up. Meaning, there is no evidence that backs it up.
Except the times you did. I never used a unquantifiable feat.
hysterical
That’s what I’ve been asking you this entire time. Please, [b]prove to me that Superman is a million times stronger than Thor or whatever nonsense your spouting. Show me these so called feats, where you came to the conclusion. No more dodging and other nonsense. You’ve been spouting this nonsense without any factual prove.
[/B] Read the 5th post down (my post). http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=503446&pagenumber=5
facepalm
Do you actually read comics? Have you actually read any Thor or are familiar with any of his feats? Do you even know who Thor is? I honestly think you don’t. Like at all.
Please post these so called showings. When Thor has feats like supporting and easily overpowering the weight of half the planet, withstanding the weight of a score of planets, lifting the Midgard Serpent, shrugging off a blast equivalent to the power of an exploding Sun, withstanding attacks from Odin, Celestial’s, Galactus, Superman being knocked out by a Gas Station isn’t going to fit in here.
I seriously don’t understand how you can come to this conclusion when Thor has strength feats capable of easily matching Superman’s. Lol, at Hulk being far weaker than characters at Superman’s level on average.
Thor never overpowered the weight of half the planet. He lifted a mostly ghostly Snake with the help of a magical boat. Of course he would shrug off those blasts, I already said he is very durable in the energy projection department. But guess what Superman is too and would do the same in his own comic.
Do I need to circle it for you? You can clearly see bullets bouncing off of his chest, which would be covered in his skin. In that new armor, the chest was only a single strip running down the middle of his chest, while you can clearly see bullets ricocheting from all over his chest. Looks like armor to me.
eer
The entire point of the Konvict scan was to prove that, just because of one instance, it does not dictate a character’s level of strength, durability etc. if it contradicts an already established, level that is backed up by decade’s worth of showing.
If you believe that scan, is prove that Superman is superior to Thor, than you must also believe that the instance Superman was knocked out by an exploding Gas Station, can just as easily be used as adamant evidence, that Thor is tougher than Superman then right? Or is it double standards, and it only applies when you feel like it?
Seriously, that comic was serious plot induced stupidity. Do you also believe Batman can go blow for with Thor as well, because based on that issue you must, if you believe it to be the only showing of Thor’s supposed true level of power. Stupidity.
Exploding Gas station > bullets and blades. My point is that Thor's low showing are much lower than Superman's. Thus he is weaker and less durable. He's more evidence. Logan will most definitely can slice Thor up. Yet he can't even put a scratch on Superman.
Show me one instance where Stan Lee, had bullets harm Thor. I mean ever. He had him use Mjolnir to block bullets but what does that prove? He had Thor written as nigh invulnerable. He even had Thor shrug off a mortar round back in the day without any harm as I recall. It is all in the writer's mind. That is all the proof we need. It is common sense that Stan Lee didn't want Thor to be bulletproof. Otherwise he wouldn't had him block bullets. At least bullets put stings on Thor is why he was blocking them.
facepalm
Hulk is weak compared to Superman? Lol. How the hell is the Hulk is weak compared to Superman? Where the hell do you get this shift from? At best, you can save face by saying you were referring to him at his base, but I honestly don’t believe that was the case, whatsoever. I personally think you actually believe your statement unless you’re just trolling which might also be a possibility. Who knows?
Anyways, the Hulk is not weak compared to Superman. Not weak at all. Based on the Hulk’s power set, when all said is done, the Hulk should be stronger than even him eventually.
When I say stronger than Hulk I'm talking about over 99% of all appearances of Hulk. Thus it is safe to say that Superman is stronger than Hulk. Put potentially, yes Hulk could match and even exceed Superman. But for practical purposes that won't happen.
So what was he doing when he was lying on the ground, eyes closed, unmoving, with no apparent consciousness?
Playing dead? Comics don't move. So of course a still picture looks like Superman is not moving. Duh. But in the next issue we see that Superman wasn't koed.
eer
What? How the hell does trading punches with your opponent and being able to hold your own have nothing to do with your strength? Are you honestly this stupid or are you trolling? I’ve never reported anyone in my life, because I enjoy arguments, but dude, at this point your just being silly. I'm not trolling. You just didn't understand my words. Juggs can trade punches with nearly anyone doesn't mean he is as strong. I would say his durability is astronomically more than his strength. Durability doesn't equal strength. WW taking hits from Konvict gives credit to her durability and not strength. Thus going toe to toe with someone doesn't prove you are as strong.
Originally posted by batdude123
😛
just fooling around 😆
hows about this?
Superman 10
Silver Surfer 1500
Wonder Woman 1
Sentry 10
Orion 10
Martian Manhunter 1
Beta Ray Bill 1400
Mongul .5
Shaggy Man .1
Thor 1500
Hulk 1700
Gladiator 1500
😆
but seriously
Superman 100
Silver Surfer 100
Wonder Woman 80
Sentry 90
Orion 100
Martian Manhunter 80
Beta Ray Bill 95
Thor 100
Hulk 110
Gladiator 100
Re: If Captain Marvel is an 100..
Originally posted by Philosophía
..in strength, where do the following characters stand:Superman
Silver Surfer (can amp)
Wonder Woman
Sentry
Orion
Martian Manhunter
Beta Ray Bill
Mongul (without rings)
Shaggy Man
Thor
Hulk
Gladiator
Superman 100
Silver Surfer 100
Wonder Woman 90/95
Sentry 100 if written correctly
Orion 100
BRB 100
Mongul not sure
Shaggy Man not sure
Thor 100
Hulk 100 has potential to pass in terms of strength
Gladiator 100
Originally posted by h1a8 Yes Thor used force. But he wasn't pulling against all of the weight of the Serpent. It is also referenced that the Serpent was in ethereal form. The OHOTMU officially says that only the A section of the serpent was materialized (whatever that means).
Yes he used his strength to physically overpower the serpent. I don’t give a shit what the handbook says. Handbooks mean shit to me. Some of them rank the freaking She-Hulk as stronger than Juggernaut in their stats bar. They mean shit, if they don’t match the comics.
If you had read the comic you would have known that the serpent was solid. Loki uses the serpent’s body as a bridge for his troops while his tail is tied to Asgard, and Thor after overpowering, the Serpent, ties his body around Yggdrasil.
Where in the hell, does it show that the Serpent was in ethereal form? It was specifically depicted as solid. What the hell is the A section supposed to be?
In the comic it was clearly portrayed that the Serpent was materialized.
