[QUOTE=12229904]Originally posted by Ushgarak
[B]The fact of the matter is that the Bible IS Homophobic
I said I wouldn't interject again, but I must in this case. The Bible is not HOMOPHOBIC. Homophobic means "fear of homosexuals". The Bible does not fear homosexuality, it just condemns it as SIN. It condemns it as against God's Law.
Another point that I would like to clear up is the misunderstanding most posters have with a comment I made: homosexuality is almost as disgusting as pedophilia. That statement is a PERSONAL point of view. In no way was I comparing the two as being the same. Pedophilia is illegal, homosexuality is not illegal. I was comparing two ACTS that disgust me in a nearly equal way. It is my opinion, a SUBJECTIVE statement. I find homosexuality disturbing and offensive to the natural order of things. Would I stand in the way of two homosexuals being together? No. Why? It is what they choose to do, and they have every right to love whom they choose to love. I am not disputing that point. Am I against it? Yes, as stated earlier, I view it to be unnatural. It is one thing in this world that makes me nausious to even contemplate in my mind. Ultimately, my view comes from a Biblical perspective. God condemns it, and as a Christian, I choose to believe God's Word and condemn homosexuality as a sin. In truth, all SIN is evil in God's eyes. To God, homosexuality is no greater a sin than stealing, or telling a lie. God separates Himself from all sin, equally. However, humans create varying levels of sin, or magnitudes of sin. According to the law, murder requires a much stiffer penalty than shoplifting. However, both of those sins are condemned equally when viewing the Ten Commandments.
Furthermore, I need to dispel the notion that I hate homosexuals. I do not. I have known homosexuals in the past and befriended them. Their lifestyle sickens me...and I do mean physically. If someone even shows me a homosexual porn flick as a joke, I literally dry heave. Pedophilia sickens me in the same way though...physically sickens me. That is what I meant with the comparison.
Should a homosexual couple be persecuted? No. Do I have a right to my opinion, and do they have a right to their opinion? Yes. Do I discriminate against them, or show prejudice against them? No. I simply belive a union of the same sex is contrary to God's Law. I will not advocate for it, nor will I march against it. It is not a Christian's place to judge a sinner. However, it is a Christian's duty to preach against SIN. Telling someone that their lifestyle is ungodly is not the same thing as being self-righteous, or close-minded. Every one has a belief system of some kind. I happen to believe that the Christian faith is true. I will not tell a homosexual that he/she is going to hell because of their lifestyle because that wouldn't be true. As I mentioned earlier, sin is sin in God's eyes. The thief or liar is no better than the murderer/rapist. What sends a person to Hell is not the particular sin that has been commited, it is because that person has chosen to deny God and not accept Christ as his/her Saviour. God paid for the sins of man on the Cross of Calvary. Everyone has an equal opportunity to accept that sacrifice, and claim forgiveness of sin. Does that mean that a person will stop sinning? No. The flesh will sin, as our flesh is corruptible according to Scripture. However, our souls have been bought and paid for with the Blood of Jesus. The catch is...to turn away from sin and commit your life to the God who cared enough to save you. The homosexual, pedophile, murderer, thief, liar...all have the same opportunity to choose. Many non-Christians today bash Christians because they see us as self-righteous and ignorant people. They argue that evangelicals are intolerant rednecks that are close-minded to the ways of the world. In truth, many "Christians" are like that. Does that make it right? No. The Bible says that you can know a Christian by his or her "fruits". That means that Christians really living the way Christ had intended will show love and compassion for believers and non-believers alike. Christ taught us many examples of this...when He intervened with the stoning of a woman, accused of sexual immorality. Christ said.."Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone". No one cast a stone because, in truth, no one is without sin. Christ told her to "go and sin no more". What Christ meant is..to go and practice that lifestyle no more. We continue to sin as Christians. I lose my temper and say hateful things in response to being ridiculed. I called another poster on here a "***"...out of frustration and anger. Was that right? No. I apologize for that. I'm not perfect by any means, and I still do things that I ought not do...but, I try my best not to..and that is all Christ asks..to do your best to live according to His Will.
I'm sure many will disparage the mini "sermon" above..and if you do...that is your right. However, my faith restrains me from accepting and endorsing an act which is condemned by the Creator Himself. I realize there are many in this forum that do not believe in God, and will say my entire "rambling" is inconsequential, based on the lack of evidence that God even exists. Well, that is another debate that I will not get into at the moment.
In sum, condemn me if you want. But, I did not mean for that comparison to be taken out of context the way that it has been. Sure, I may have posted such a comparison in bad taste, but I was merely trying to indicate how such an act makes me feel.
First, you make a fool of yourself by resorting to arguing semantics. Sure, you can argue about a literal and pedantic meaning of homophobia, but the way the word is used today is simply with the meaning of prejudice against homosexuals. You therefore waste everyone's time by trying to reduce the argument to the meaning of the word when everyone knows what is being talked about.
Meanwhile, it doesn't matter a damn how subjective your opinion is (not that subjectivity is an excuse for intolerant behaviour). You should have thought much more carefully abut your statement because if you cannot see how that is an intolerant attack... well, that would only confirm inbuilt prejudice.
You are also being self-delusional if you do not think that equating homosexuality to child abuse is derogatory and insulting to homosexuals. Sorry, but that is an offensive statement and, your opinion or otherwise, is not welcome here. Someone feeling distaste at pedophilia is reasonable because of the child abuse implications. To say you feel the exact same way about homosexuals is revealing an inner prejudice, and is exceptionally offensive. Being a Christian is no excuse for such behaviour. We will not accept such broad and direct attacks- it is simple flaming based on nothing but your own distaste (the source of your distaste is irrelevant). Don't do it again.
Meanwhile, do not proselytise in threads either, thankyou. You will be warned if you do it again, too.
This thread has devolved into something insane.
My bottom line is: Anyone who twisted this:
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
In my opinion, it's almost as disgusting as pedophilia. But, this is not
into:
"homosexuality = pedophilia" is retarded, and should be castrated so as to ensure that their stupidity does not make it into the next generation.
Leave your PC biased glasses at home and learn how to read.
While comparing pedophilia to gay-sex and pedophiles to gays is a level of ignorance that could likely only come from living in a sheltered world where a bible is lodged deep in ones ass. I don't understand the censorship in what Tattoo said.
IMO, he should be allowed to state his [ignorant] opinion, as long as he doesn't flame a poster directly (eg calling someone a "f@ggot".) In the end, he's only showing his ass and making himself to be the chimp.
Originally posted by dadudemon
An argument of unintentional hypocrisy or rather, that they are being illogical and subjective. GASPITY! NO WAY! 😆 Double standards exist all the time for the religious. ✅
fair enough, a lot of it is my personal vendetta against post-modernism I'm sure, but ya, all I'm saying is this particular hypocrisy made me lol especially
Originally posted by dadudemon
However, Christianity has it covered: they are not supposed to judge others. A common way of that is "hate the sin, not the sinner." I think this is why a Mormon can think homosexuality is a sin, but fully believe in and vote for gay rights. (I.e. yours truly.)
"judge not lest ye be judged"
"let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
and so forth, no?
I don't see religion, obviously, as being against gays, however, they make gay rights an issue because it is easy to use to control people and gain more of a share of power. More people in church where they are told to vote religiously, giving the church more political power, etc.
Its why institutions play so often to the "us"/"them", it is so salient to our minds
Originally posted by dadudemon
I may be taking our conversation off track, but it is more on subject.
lol, off track from whether or not it is ignorant to compare homosexuality and pedophilia (which was obviously just bait, as was the f@g remark.... le sigh)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Opinions on anything are fine, as long as those opinions don't lead to unreasonable discrimination. (Discrminate against rapists and pedophiles. That's cool. But not against two men who want to share their lives together, legeally, and emotionally....unless they are both pedophile rapists. AHA! 😆 )
thats exactly my point though
most reasonable people understand that there are things which should not be tolerated. This assumes that we, as people, are able to come to some conclusions about right and wrong. Academics will argue this is impossible (post-modernism) and that all positions and truths are relative.
The argument that 'tattoos and scars' was discriminated against because someone called him ignorant for his view, at its base, is an argument from relativity. His view isn't ignorant because all things are relative, therefore, you cannot impose the idea that his truth isn't the actual ideal.
I'm not a post modernist, but there is some academic validity to the argument, and it is largely unfalsifiable. So, in some sense, it is correct. Because we cannot say with any absolute certainty that homophobia is ignorant, it is discrimination to call such ideas ignorant.
For a Christian to appeal to this logic, however, is absurd. The idea that there is no absolute truth is, imho, incompatible with any, if not all, religious doctrine.
Like I said, I'm not interested in whether or not this specific instance is ignorant or whatever, I'm just curious about the logic. To repeat, it was obvious that both of Tat's-and-scars (ha, sounds like failed breast augmentation surgery) offending posts were done with the specific intent to offend and stir up the sensibilities of people who would obviously object to homosexual and pedophile in the same sentence.
Originally posted by inimalist
To repeat, it was obvious that both of Tat's-and-scars (ha, sounds like failed breast augmentation surgery) offending posts were done with the specific intent to offend and stir up the sensibilities of people who would obviously object to homosexual and pedophile in the same sentence.
i disagree. i think he was just stating his feelings on the matter nothing more nothing less.
i think youre right about the second comment though. completely unnecessary.
Originally posted by inimalist
fair enough, a lot of it is my personal vendetta against post-modernism I'm sure, but ya, all I'm saying is this particular hypocrisy made me lol especially
Indeed. Sometimes....Christians warrant facepalms.
Originally posted by inimalist
"judge not lest ye be judged"
"let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
and so forth, no?
Correct.
Originally posted by inimalist
I don't see religion, obviously, as being against gays, however, they make gay rights an issue because it is easy to use to control people and gain more of a share of power. More people in church where they are told to vote religiously, giving the church more political power, etc.
I see religion as being against gays, however. Islam and Christianity, in general, are very anti-gay.
Not to ignore your point about money and political clout, though.
Originally posted by inimalist
lol, off track from whether or not it is ignorant to compare homosexuality and pedophilia (which was obviously just bait, as was the f@g remark.... le sigh)
Yeah. I was taking it off track from the discussion....but oddly back on track with the thread.
Originally posted by inimalist
thats exactly my point though
Figures. 😂
Originally posted by inimalist
most reasonable people understand that there are things which should not be tolerated. This assumes that we, as people, are able to come to some conclusions about right and wrong. Academics will argue this is impossible (post-modernism) and that all positions and truths are relative.The argument that 'tattoos and scars' was discriminated against because someone called him ignorant for his view, at its base, is an argument from relativity. His view isn't ignorant because all things are relative, therefore, you cannot impose the idea that his truth isn't the actual ideal.
I'm not a post modernist, but there is some academic validity to the argument, and it is largely unfalsifiable. So, in some sense, it is correct. Because we cannot say with any absolute certainty that homophobia is ignorant, it is discrimination to call such ideas ignorant.
For a Christian to appeal to this logic, however, is absurd. The idea that there is no absolute truth is, imho, incompatible with any, if not all, religious doctrine.
Like I said, I'm not interested in whether or not this specific instance is ignorant or whatever, I'm just curious about the logic. To repeat, it was obvious that both of Tat's-and-scars (ha, sounds like failed breast augmentation surgery) offending posts were done with the specific intent to offend and stir up the sensibilities of people who would obviously object to homosexual and pedophile in the same sentence.
1. I agree. There is not such thing as moral relativism in Diety-like religions. It's moral absolutism probably close to 100% of the time.
2. lol @ your bewbz joke. 👆
3. I think you give him too much credit. I don't think he really meant to stir the pot with his gay-pedo comment. It's more like, he finds them both disgusting. Nothing against Tats and Scars, but I don't think he's got the brain to be GDF troll. (As if whirly does, as well.)
Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
wow. you guys got from someone simply suing some bible publishers to a debate between someone who... um, disagrees about homosexuality and... yeah.I guess it's bound to come up some time. haha.
I don't understand that phrase. Though quite common it seems to make no sense to me. It's like saying "I disagree with table"
Reminds me of the poll in the abortion thread.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't understand that phrase. Though quite common it seems to make no sense to me. It's like saying "I disagree with table"Reminds me of the poll in the abortion thread.
Here's a reword:
"wow. The conversation went from a person suing a bible publisher to a debate about Tats and Scars comments on homosexuality.
I guess religion and homosexuality debates are bound to come up some time. haha. "
Capisce?
Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
This thread has devolved into something insane.My bottom line is: Anyone who twisted this:
into:
"homosexuality = pedophilia" is retarded, and should be castrated so as to ensure that their stupidity does not make it into the next generation.
Leave your PC biased glasses at home and learn how to read.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
I'm not being obtuse in any way.
Are you being deliberately illiterate ?
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
😬Not really. His post (deliberately or not) has severely offensive connotations.
They discussed those connotations.
That isn't crazy at all (and the case could be made that the suggestion of forced castration is even more reprehensible, but lets not go there, k?) nor is it off topic.
It's been mentioned...what...7 times now that he didn't equate homosexuality with pedophilia ?
There are no connotations to be discussed. The guy made a post that stated a clear sentence. Someone saw it and went "oh noes, he didn't have the words "homosexuality" and "awesome" in the same sentence!!!!!!! AND HE THINKS IT'S BAD!!!! hateeeer!!! stone hiiiiim!!!!!"
All of you get off your goddamn high horses, and stop being such imbeciles. If he said he finds 2 girls 1 cup as disgusting as pedophilia, no one would've said one single word.
The state of message boards these days is pathetic. If the word "homosexuality" and ANYTHING negative are ever together in a sentence, it's time to put your brain down and pick up a torch.