Who crosses the line more, Batman or Daredevil

This was kind of prompted by a comment in another thread. Now I'm not exactly a regular Batman reader but am much more of a Daredevil fan. The comment was that supposedly DD is locked in a cycle with certain foes just like Batman is because of his unwillingness to kill. This referring to the main Batman and the main 616 Daredevil.

In fact, I believe that DD is much more brutal than Batman ever was. He routinely beats opponents into traction regardless of whether or not they have powers. He's killed before, in fact when battling the Hand, he kills their ninjas without a second thought even though they are human beings. He's also used deadly force against common thugs during times when he's been driven to insanity. Lately, he's been torturing criminals, specifically Hammerhead, Bullseye, and Ox and even said he felt good about it. When was the last time Batman suspended Bane from the ceiling with chains and went at him with a blow torch or carved a target into Joker's head with a rock? Finally, DD has actually attempted to murder both of his arch villains. During born again, he went into the Kingpin's office with the intention of murdering him and was severely beaten, though in a what if story, it clearly shows murderous intent. He's done the same to Bullseye. In fact he found out his secret identity and his past during a time when he stalked Bullseye with the intention of killing him in his sleep. He crosses the line waaaay more despite, and possibly because he's a lawyer...

Thoughts?

Apparently Batman was going to kill Darkseid and Gorilla Grodd.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Apparently Batman was going to kill Darkseid and Gorilla Grodd.

Anybody in their right mind would try to kill Darkseid

DD for sure, I mean lets face it if DD's main arch enemy was joker then DD would kill him without hesitation

I mean joker may survive a few storylines with DD but after a while I'm DD would take it upon himself to kill joker, but Batman...well jokers done many horrible things to the people that batman cares about the most but batman still refuses to kill joker and I think that shows that Batman has been taken to the limits and still refuses to kill...but DD kills and tortures and doesn't care...think that answers the question to this thread

I think DD's just more likely to. I don't think he would kill and he's had the chance to kill Bullseye or the Punisher before and stated it was a line he wouldn't cross.

Whereas with Batman, it's more deeply grained into his origin and his psyche. His whole thing is that he witnessed his parent's murders and swore it wouldn't happen to anyone else. That's why he's even saved the lives of his villains before. DD, by comparison, adopts a similar moral outlook but it's not so ingrained into him. He keeps just getting brought right to the abyss, but just manages to pull himself back every time.

Originally posted by jalek moye
Anybody in their right mind would try to kill Darkseid

The point is its against his moral code.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The point is its against his moral code.

Well it depends. Is this about who crosses their own personal line or the line of norms for their world and society as heroes?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Well it depends. Is this about who crosses their own personal line or the line of norms for their world and society as heroes?

Their own line I think.

Originally posted by willRules
I think DD's just more likely to. I don't think he would kill and he's had the chance to kill Bullseye or the Punisher before and stated it was a line he wouldn't cross.

Whereas with Batman, it's more deeply grained into his origin and his psyche. His whole thing is that he witnessed his parent's murders and swore it wouldn't happen to anyone else. That's why he's even saved the lives of his villains before. DD, by comparison, adopts a similar moral outlook but it's not so ingrained into him. He keeps just getting brought right to the abyss, but just manages to pull himself back every time.

But he has crossed the line, he has fallen into that abyss. He does it all the time. He's carved up the hand's ninjas, he deflected a bullet back into a mobster's head, it's implied but not confirmed that he killed three muggers on a subway during Born Again, he kicked Typhoid out a window (admittedly accidentally). It's also been shown and later, explicitly stated in predator's smile that he routinely uses techniques and force meant to kill against Bullseye, figuring that his adamantium will protect him.

Originally posted by Darth Jello

In fact, I believe that DD is much more brutal than Batman ever was.

I can agree with this fact of yours. Simply because when Elektra died DD became a different character. Not an extreme like Punisher...but more certainly different. Prior to the death of Elektra, horn head was gentler crime fighter.

I dunno. He wasn't too gentle when he kicked Typhoid out a window.

In the end Batman holds back. I don't read DD that much so I can't really say.

Punisher

Originally posted by steverules_2
DD for sure, I mean lets face it if DD's main arch enemy was joker then DD would kill him without hesitation

I mean joker may survive a few storylines with DD but after a while I'm DD would take it upon himself to kill joker, but Batman...well jokers done many horrible things to the people that batman cares about the most but batman still refuses to kill joker and I think that shows that Batman has been taken to the limits and still refuses to kill...but DD kills and tortures and doesn't care...think that answers the question to this thread

I don't know...Bullseye has killed both Elektra & Karen Page and DD still held himself back in the end. And Bullseye enjoys killing, because he thinks deaths at his hand make him stronger. I don't think Joker would be that much different for DD - he wouldn't kill him outright. Plus, with his constant antagonism towards the Punisher, he knows he wouldn't be any different than Castle if he killed someone. As a lawyer, that part of his mind keeps him just inside the line.

Still, both DD & Batman had a couple of confirmed deaths on their hands - DD when he first met Nuke in the 'Born Again' storyline (blew up a helicopter randomly gunning down the public); Batman to save himself from an Apokolips footsoldier who had him cornered during 'Cosmic Odyssey'.

Again, do the ninjas of the Hand not count as people? Also, stopping when Bullseye's unconscious doesn't mean he doesn't try to kill him every time he kicks him out a window or jumps on a wire they're both standing on, or you know, that thing that happened afterward which to me always looked kind of intentional on DD's part...

Evil mystical Ninjas don't really count as people.

Why not?

This is why DD and Batman are the two best comic books

Originally posted by Quincy
This is why DD and Batman are the two best comic books

I think that has more to do with the quality of the writing and the art than brutality.

Agreed