Master Court
Senior Member
Originally posted by geshien
You're grasping for straws.Juggernaut was depowered and he never had the gem to begin with. Bad writing. The whole Onslaught saga was pretty awful.
Thor busted right through Onslaught. Cable, Joseph and Cyclops all cracked his armor. Saying "Hulk was da only one that could do it" is just wrong.
All that was before Onslaught was amped. Thor only made him stronger after that. Hulk was the one that truly busted amped Onslaught's armor. Of course you're right about the saga, and the Juggernaut thing, but my point is that who, of all the Hulk's, has the greatest strength feats? Banner-Less Hulk. Even Planet Hulk, even WWHulk, had Banner in the mix. Banner-Less Hulk has always been shown to be significantly more powerful than Savage, usually being written as a clear superior in strength to just about anyone. If I recall correctly, wasn't it Banner-Less Hulk that pitched Hercules, Namor, She-Hulk, and Wonder Man off all at the same time? And yet, they clearly state and imply repeatedly that WWHulk is the strongest Hulk ever. To be clearer, they say "the strongest we've ever seen him". And they've seen Banner-Less Hulk.
This pretty much confirms my theory that all of Hulk's potential, his inner potential, no matter how vast, is attainable by any green Hulk, given enough incentive rather than just amp time. As the mountain feat shows, sudden danger promotes almost instantaneous amping.
Juggernaut is about as good a fighter as Hulk, so I'd say they're roughly equal in skill give or take good days and off days. But if Juggernaut were not only more durable and physically unstoppable, but also stronger than Hulk, Hulk would never appear to be a challenge. Yet, when they first met, and Juggernaut thought Hulk was getting weaker and was kicking him around, Hulk didn't drop. The fight was still very much in full speed before the f*cking X-Men dropped in. Against purely blunt force, Hulk has always been extremely difficult to put down. It usually takes that extra oomf to KO Hulk. Unfortunately, Juggernaut has no powers other than his physical attributes. And what's more, Juggernaut has never really performed any pure strength feats. Sure, he's smacked around Thor, but we've never seen Juggernaut perform planetary-scale strength feats. So it's just not right to say he is stronger than Hulk based on nothing.
What I keep pointing out and what people keep missing, is that Juggernaut, when tied up with WWHulk, said "We've done this dance before, Hulk, and I won." But, in all their comic history, Juggernaut's never once proven he's stronger than Hulk. No one has. And Hulk and Juggernaut both have ambiguous victories over one another, so Juggernaut can't be talking about their fight record. What has Hulk, barring War Hulk, consistently lost to Juggernaut at? Stopping his unstoppable momentum.
I think it was Knowsbleed(is that right?) that quoted Pak as having said that he considered the lock-up a test of might. But his mistake is that Chris Gage(who I believe actually did write WWHulk X-Men) has actually refused to say what it really was, but he has made a few ambiguous comments saying that Hulk stopped Juggernaut, but not for long, indicating the only pause was because Juggernaut didn't exactly have room to build any speed. Going just a little further to say that it's hard to tell what would've happened if Xavier didn't interfere. He's also just said straight up that they clashed and immediately stopped, and he didn't elaborate much further than that. So, really, anyone that says they've "proven" it was a test-of-strength is completely mistaken.
However, I think it should be obvious, based on both Juggernaut's "dance" comment and Hulk's "nothing stops the Juggernaut" comment, that it was most likely a test of strength-vs-momentum.
And if we're still going with Pak's word, he also said that he believed WWHulk had evolved to a point where no one could beat him. Not even Superman.