Originally posted by Luminatus
Now that's just crazy.
Banaki ichigo was at least on the same level as Byakuya while Grimmjow laughed off his (Ichigo's) strongest attack and was catching his Zangetsu with hsi bare hands. All while unrleeased.Byakuya would have no chance against Grimm at full (unreleased) power.
I disagree.
Only Ichigo after just using his Bankai could really beat Byakuya. During and afterwhich there's good evidence he lost all the speed he used that he needs to defeat Byakuya. Grimmjow isn't fast enough to Elude Byakuya's bankai.
That and Ichigo struggled epically to beat grimmjow. Byakuya used Bankai and owned Zommori like a b*tch
Originally posted by EvilAngel
I disagree.Only Ichigo after just using his Bankai could really beat Byakuya.
he actually could of killed him several times throughout their fight but prolonged it because hes a good guy from what i remember. yeah
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/162/17/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/163/02/
because ichigos a good guy he generally doesnt go around shoving his sword through peoples throats but... if he wanted to kill byakuya in that moment he could have absolutely done so with paramount ease and byakuya wouldnt have been able to do anything about it...
id say that a lot of ichigos struggle in that fight especially is that he wasnt fighting to kill while byakuya was trying to kill him the entire time.
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
he actually could of killed him several times throughout their fight but prolonged it because hes a good guy from what i remember. yeahhttp://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/162/17/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/163/02/because ichigos a good guy he generally doesnt go around shoving his sword through peoples throats but... if he wanted to kill byakuya in that moment he could have absolutely done so with paramount ease and byakuya wouldnt have been able to do anything about it...
id say that a lot of ichigos struggle in that fight especially is that he wasnt fighting to kill while byakuya was trying to kill him the entire time.
You're right, but it's irrelevent. Because during the course of that fight Ichigo lost said speed.
its not irrelevant because the fight would have never gotten to the point where ichigo started to slow down if he hadnt been holding back the entire time you realize that the scene i posted happened only seconds after he activated his bankai?
my point is that if ichigo had wanted to kill byakuya from the start he could have done so easily because hes that much stronger than byakuya is at that point. the only reason why he didnt is due to his personality which is CIS and isnt used in forum discussions...
a metaphor for that would be an out of shape father play fighting his 6 year old son and the father gets tired 10 minutes in and has to stop... would you say that the 6 year old > the father because the father didnt break the kids neck 20 seconds in?
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
its not irrelevant because the fight would have never gotten to the point where ichigo started to slow down if he hadnt been holding back the entire time you realize that the scene i posted happened only seconds after he activated his bankai?my point is that if ichigo had wanted to kill byakuya from the start he could have done so easily because hes that much stronger than byakuya is at that point. the only reason why he didnt is due to his personality which is CIS and isnt used in forum discussions...
a metaphor for that would be an out of shape father play fighting his 6 year old son and the father gets tired 10 minutes in and has to stop... would you say that the 6 year old > the father because the father didnt break the kids neck 20 seconds in?
Oh, then yeah, agreed.
I was referring to it being irrelevent because by the time Grimmjow was kicking Ichigo's ass he was already slower.
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
its not irrelevant because the fight would have never gotten to the point where ichigo started to slow down if he hadnt been holding back the entire time you realize that the scene i posted happened only seconds after he activated his bankai?my point is that if ichigo had wanted to kill byakuya from the start he could have done so easily because hes that much stronger than byakuya is at that point. the only reason why he didnt is due to his personality which is CIS and isnt used in forum discussions...
a metaphor for that would be an out of shape father play fighting his 6 year old son and the father gets tired 10 minutes in and has to stop... would you say that the 6 year old > the father because the father didnt break the kids neck 20 seconds in?
If it's within his personality, it's acceptable 😬. If it were an example of PIS, then it wouldn't be counted, but since he was held back by his personality (according to you), it's acceptable. In forum fights, we include their personality.
I mean, we wouldn't think of Hollow Ichigo doing things slowly or acting like a non-berserker in fights, would we?
Similarly, Uryuu would fight to incapacitate as opposed to killing them.
- Not to be a d***, but if it were play-fighting, the dad wouldn't break the kid's neck at all 😛, & the kid still wins if the dad stops. Though you're right, the kid wouldn't necessarily be better than the dad, even if he wins.
Originally posted by EvilAngelHim losing his speed was not permanent, his inexperience with Bankai did that, his condensed spiritual pressure caused his bones to crack, lessening his strength and speed over time. It was not a permanent downgrade, if it was, then Ichigo would be a cripple. 😐 The drawback has never been mentioned again, as should be noted.
You're right, but it's irrelevent. Because during the course of that fight Ichigo lost said speed.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Him losing his speed was not permanent, his inexperience with Bankai did that, his condensed spiritual pressure caused his bones to crack, lessening his strength and speed over time. It was not a permanent downgrade, if it was, then Ichigo would be a cripple. 😐 The drawback has never been mentioned again, as should be noted.
Yeah, he's so much more experienced now with it ^^'
Didn't Byakuya say it takes years to learn how to use your BanKai in battle?
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
In forum fights, we include their personality.
actually its the opposite in that we dont take a characters personality into account. if we did then villains would always lose their fights because they underestimate their opponents spiderman would pull all of his punches naruto would hold back against sasuke etc. generally for vs. fights its assumed that both people are fighting to the best of their ability and will pull out all the stops to win.
in other news a seagull pooped on me while i was on my way to school this morning. 🙁
Originally posted by EvilAngel
I disagree.Only Ichigo after just using his Bankai could really beat Byakuya. During and afterwhich there's good evidence he lost all the speed he used that he needs to defeat Byakuya. Grimmjow isn't fast enough to Elude Byakuya's bankai.
That and Ichigo struggled epically to beat grimmjow. Byakuya used Bankai and owned Zommori like a b*tch
I dont think Grimmjow is neccesarily slow. Matter of fact, I believes he's actually rather fast.
Also, Zommari isnt as strong as Grimmjow, seeing as he is Espada 7.
Byakuya, pretty simply.I would actually vouch for Byakuya against Full powered, even released Grimmjow.
Now thats just silly, lets take a look back and see how well Byakuya handled Ichigo's Hollow powers.....Yeah, not too well. Well Released Grimmjow faired quite impressively against Hollow form Ichigo. I'd say Grimmjow takes it with no contest in full power.
Pre-bankai Ichigo beat Kenpachi. Who beat Nnoitra, espada 5
Kenpachi is a pretty inconsistant character. There is NO way Ichigo could take Nnoitra without all the upgrades he's recieved since the Soul Society Arc. However Kenpachi lost to Ichigo without soo much as Ichigo's Bankai....I call PIS on Ichigo's victory on Kenpachi.
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
actually its the opposite in that we dont take a characters personality into account. if we did then villains would always lose their fights because they underestimate their opponents spiderman would pull all of his punches naruto would hold back against sasuke etc. generally for vs. fights its assumed that both people are fighting to the best of their ability and will pull out all the stops to win.in other news a seagull pooped on me while i was on my way to school this morning. 🙁
We do take personality into account.
(Fighting to the best of their ability but within the limits defined by their personality unless specified by the TC)
Not all villains underestimate their opponents. That's a cliche that is hardly used anymore anyway. Spiderman only pulls his punches when up against thugs and opponents weaker than him.
Originally posted by Micheal_MyersNow thats just silly, lets take a look back and see how well Byakuya handled Ichigo's Hollow powers.....Yeah, not too well. Well Released Grimmjow faired quite impressively against Hollow form Ichigo. I'd say Grimmjow takes it with no contest in full power.
One handed Grimmjow was getting owned by Vizard Ichigo until the latter's time limit hit.
~ I don't think there's a power difference between One-handed Grimmjow and normal Grimmjow anyway. Only a status difference, and perhaps maybe a slight difference in psyche.