One-Armed Grimmjow vs. Byakuya

Originally posted by Micheal_Myers
I dont think Grimmjow is neccesarily slow. Matter of fact, I believes he's actually rather fast.

Also, Zommari isnt as strong as Grimmjow, seeing as he is Espada 7.

Now thats just silly, lets take a look back and see how well Byakuya handled Ichigo's Hollow powers.....Yeah, not too well. Well Released Grimmjow faired quite impressively against Hollow form Ichigo. I'd say Grimmjow takes it with no contest in full power.

Kenpachi is a pretty inconsistant character. There is NO way Ichigo could take Nnoitra without all the upgrades he's recieved since the Soul Society Arc. However Kenpachi lost to Ichigo without soo much as Ichigo's Bankai....I call PIS on Ichigo's victory on Kenpachi.

It's silly to think the guy who'se taking on the 0 espada could beat the 6th?

..... humour me.

The 0th Espada who has continued to be largely unimpressive...

Originally posted by EvilAngel
It's silly to think the guy who'se taking on the 0 espada could beat the 6th?

..... humour me.

Oh yeah, and he's definitely "taking him on" all by himself too.. 🙄

Facts are facts, Byakuya couldnt handle Ichigo's Hollow powers. Grimmjow could in his released form.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The 0th Espada who has continued to be largely unimpressive...

Well he did beat the crap out of Ichigo and Ichigo's most powerful attack didn't even do that much damage to him. The 0th Espada even once said that Grimmjow and Ulquiorra were weak compared to him. Before Ichigo received more damage, Byakuya sliced the 0th Espada's arm off with Senbosakura (if I even spelled that right) with ease. If Byakuya can easily slice the limbs off the toughest Espada, he can easily destroy Grimmjow.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Well he did beat the crap out of Ichigo and Ichigo's most powerful attack didn't even do that much damage to him. The 0th Espada even once said that Grimmjow and Ulquiorra were weak compared to him. Before Ichigo received more damage, Byakuya sliced the 0th Espada's arm off with Senbosakura (if I even spelled that right) with ease. If Byakuya can easily slice the limbs off the toughest Espada, he can easily destroy Grimmjow.

Wow! And Kenpachi cut off one of his legs. Yet, Kenpachi struggled against Nnoitra. Once again inconsistant as I said earlier.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The 0th Espada who has continued to be largely unimpressive...

All of the espada are looking unimpressive right about now =\

Fact is though Kenny and Byakuya look good on Yammy atm.

Originally posted by Micheal_Myers
Oh yeah, and he's definitely "taking him on" all by himself too.. 🙄

Facts are facts, Byakuya couldnt handle Ichigo's Hollow powers. Grimmjow could in his released form.

....Mmmm, this arguement is incorrect from a basis.

Ichigo is using Hollow powers when he fights Grimmjow for the second and last times.

Hollow Ichigo fought Byakuya, not Ichigo. And not Ichigo using hollow powers

The problem with this is that Hollow Ichigo has demonstrated skill with his weapon worlds apart from Ichigo.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
All of the espada are looking unimpressive right about now =\

Fact is though Kenny and Byakuya look good on Yammy atm.

Yammy is less impressive than three of the top four.

He used to be a big dumb guy. Now he is an even bigger dumb guy. Only noticeable difference.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
All of the espada are looking unimpressive right about now =\

Fact is though Kenny and Byakuya look good on Yammy atm.

....Mmmm, this arguement is incorrect from a basis.

Ichigo is using Hollow powers when he fights Grimmjow for the second and last times.

Hollow Ichigo fought Byakuya, not Ichigo. And not Ichigo using hollow powers

The problem with this is that Hollow Ichigo has demonstrated skill with his weapon worlds apart from Ichigo.

Regardless, 'Soul Society' Byakuya wouldn't be able to handle Vizard Ichigo. If Vizard Ichigo takes him on with the same mindset he had when he faced Grimmjow in Karakura, 11 seconds is more than enough. Extreme speed was Senbonzakura Kageyoshi's weakness then (and perhaps even now).

Originally posted by NemeBro

Yammy is less impressive than three of the top four.

To be honest, so far, he's less impressive than even the 8th, 7th, & 6th espada so far.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
All of the espada are looking unimpressive right about now =\

Fact is though Kenny and Byakuya look good on Yammy atm.

....Mmmm, this arguement is incorrect from a basis.

Ichigo is using Hollow powers when he fights Grimmjow for the second and last times.

Hollow Ichigo fought Byakuya, not Ichigo. And not Ichigo using hollow powers

The problem with this is that Hollow Ichigo has demonstrated skill with his weapon worlds apart from Ichigo.

So you think Byakuya could take Ichigo using his Hollow powers? Even then he couldnt even handle his Bankai?

Originally posted by Micheal_Myers
So you think Byakuya could take Ichigo using his Hollow powers? Even then he couldnt even handle his Bankai?

That's pretty much what I think. Yes

Note: Grimmjow could not handle Vizard Ichigo, as both times he fought it, he lost to it. Considering in their second fight he was able to get killed before the mask broke.

Originally posted by Micheal_Myers
So you think Byakuya could take Ichigo using his Hollow powers? Even then he couldnt even handle his Bankai?

Current Byakuya possibly could take him on. Not Soul Society arc Byakuya though.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Current Byakuya possibly could take him on. Not Soul Society arc Byakuya though.

What is Stark's speed feat?

Originally posted by EvilAngel
That's pretty much what I think. Yes

Considering NORMAL Bankai Ichigo beat Byakuya.

And Luminatus, Starrk's feat was grabbing Orihime, and instantly transporting her to the tower in Las Noches before Kenpachi and Ichigo could stop him.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
That's pretty much what I think. Yes

Note: Grimmjow could not handle Vizard Ichigo, as both times he fought it, he lost to it. Considering in their second fight he was able to get killed before the mask broke.

Grimmjow released could and DID handle Vizard Ichigo. Ichigo was about to die until Orihime PIS kicked in. Who was able to get killed? Nobody died in that fight. Perhaps you're assuming Ichigo had opportunities to kill Grimmjow before his mask began to shatter. But you really have no evidence of that since they were fighting pretty on par. My personal belief is that Ichigo's victory over Grimmjow is completely the result of PIS.

Byakuya was defeated by Bankai Ichigo. Grimmjow base form smacks around Bankai Ichigo like a *****. I dont see how you could possibly come up with an equation that results in Grimmjows defeat.

Vizard Ichigo>Grimmjow>Bankai Ichigo>Byakuya

What makes you think there's any difference in strength level?

Possibly the fact that he's now swatting Espada level opponents down like they're nothing i.e. Zommari.

This whole conversation is making me realize how inconsistant every Bleach character is. At the beggining of the arc, Toshiro (Captain level Shinigami mind you..) can barely take down a Fraccion. Now Captain Level Shinigami are fighting Espada level Arrancar out of nowhere and taking them down.

Byakuya and the other Captains must have began honing their skills off screen after learning of the Arrancar threat.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
What makes you think there's any difference in strength level?

a) What makes you think there isn't? Most characters (that we see fighting properly in both arcs) have become stronger in this arc.
Remember, everyone has been training in preparation for this war. Byakuya may be an arrogant snot, but even he would train to get stronger.

b) If he could not handle Bankai Ichigo's speed, what's he going to do against someone that is much faster, stronger and deadlier?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
a) What makes you think there isn't? Most characters (that we see fighting properly in both arcs) have become stronger in this arc.
Remember, everyone has been training in preparation for this war. Byakuya may be an arrogant snot, but even he would train to get stronger.

Because i have my doubts being who are hundreds of years old would get much stronger than their current level within a few months.

I've been doing some thinking. And it's occurred to me.

"All the captains got stronger" or any statement which resembles this. Is wrong.

We all agree that Bleach is inconsistent strength-wise. So because it;s the captains that seemed to have become buffed we label them as inconsistent. But that assumption is wrong.

"The simplest solution is most often the right one"

Ichigo.

The only person that allows us any insight that makes us think the captains became stronger in order to fight the espada is Ichigo.

I work on the basis the less you have to change in a problem to make it correct would be the simplest. So when i thought about All the captains got a power boost, even Kenpachi who we saw lazing on his butt it didn't seem simple. But in one sentence i found a plausible solution.

Ichigo got weaker.

If that's true, everything fits.

My theory is simply that while his Hollow was fighting him for control his powers were drained. After gaining his mask back he began to learn to use his powers again, thus climbing the ladder back to where he was before.

And before you say it, this does have some backing to it

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/218/20/

It was after Ichigo attained Bankai did Shirosaki make his first appearance as Ichigo. I theorise after learning BanKai that is when Shirosaki became stronger then Zangetsu, and starting screwing with Ichigo's power.

And before you say, Ichigo's got stronger even after he got his mask. It's been shown his mask has been changing, that is likely the cause of that.

At the very least that makes more sense than random power boosts for all captains because they did a ickle bit of training.

That'd be all good if it wasnt said that Vasto Lorde Hollows were stronger than Captain Level Shinigami. That combined with the fact that the espada are Vasto Lorde level Hollow who have removed their masks and become even more powerful as Arrancar. The Captains would HAVE to become stronger to defeat them. As would Ichigo. Also, dont you think that at least one character or even Ichigo himself would notice him getting weaker? Seems like if Kubo Tite wanted Ichigo to have become weaker, he would have put SOMETHING in the manga to show us that, rather than some inconsistancies.

Originally posted by Micheal_Myers
That'd be all good if it wasnt said that Vasto Lorde Hollows were stronger than Captain Level Shinigami. That combined with the fact that the espada are Vasto Lorde level Hollow who have removed their masks and become even more powerful as Arrancar. The Captains would HAVE to become stronger to defeat them. As would Ichigo. Also, dont you think that at least one character or even Ichigo himself would notice him getting weaker? Seems like if Kubo Tite wanted Ichigo to have become weaker, he would have put SOMETHING in the manga to show us that, rather than some inconsistancies.

Ugh, you are aware that the only possible Vasto Lorde's in the series is Wonderweiss and Stark. Right?

Well....
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/193/20/

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Ugh, you are aware that the only possible Vasto Lorde's in the series is Wonderweiss and Stark. Right?

Well....
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/193/20/

Whats that link supposed to prove? Ichigo did not go full power there because he did not want to be taken over by his Hollow. He says it right there in the scan.

You do have a point. I mistook all the espada for Vasto Lorde class due to their human like form. But quickly realized all Arrancar recieve that form. So on that, you are correct.