One-Armed Grimmjow vs. Byakuya

Originally posted by dadudemon
Baranggan would WTF pwn Starrk with his retarded time power. The only counter I can see for it is putting it in baranggan's belly, unnoticed. (or head...or something like that.) That...and Aizen's stupid shikai ability.

i never said who would win in a battle between the two, besides this could be argued vice versa anyway...

i was merely pointing out the fact that since Starrk is the Primera it would be safe to assume that he is more powerful than the Segunda...

Originally posted by dadudemon
Every Hallows was subject to his rule. It's not even definitive that Starrk was stronger than all BEFORE Aizen came along. It's wholly possible that Starrk got his assignment AFTER he got treatment with the hogyoku.

Starrk was already very powerful even before Aizen met him, so powerful it made him lonely since hollows died by merely being in his presence...

looking back, another difference between the top two Espadas could be seen on how they were recruited...

Barragan was forced to comply with Aizen after he decimated his so called army in a single move...

Starrk joining Aizen was more his choice as he was seeking companions that time, the only prerequisite that they be strong enough to survive being with him, there was no coercion at all on the part of Aizen...

That's because Baraggan was arrogant and belligerent, and didn't like Aizen. Starrk wanted companionship. The way they were recruited is no indication of their power, only their personalities.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
No, Grimmjow is also, i suppose 8 & 7 would have to be too. Nnoitra cannot be because he was show to be as he looks now 'years' ago so.... The list is atleast limited espada-wise.

I'm unsure, but i've noted his weapons in the past is different to his current weapon shape-wise. I'm guessing they can't control it's shape.

Assumnig that to be true, since their weapons contain their true powers i'm only left to summerise his power changed so much it's even visible. Hence why i think he could be a VL. That would also explain how he's risen in the ranks.

Yes Ulquiorra seems like a likely candidate, as Neliel knew his name when they met. While this is inconsistent with her memory loss, she didn't seem to know the other espada. So i can only summerise she knew of him before, and for reason X she remembered about Ulquiorra.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Aizen only got the Hogyokou a few months ago, or a year at the most, so that rules out Syazel as he was an Arrancar a few years back.
Grimmjow is one of the 'oldest' Arrancar's in Aizen's army. He was the 12th Numeros iirc. Meaning only Shawlong was 'older'. I think that means that he was one of the first ones to be drafted or converted...

There is indeed a shape change. He gained another crescent on his weapon, and he did indeed become more powerful as time went by (that was one of his goals iirc), so your theory is plausible.
Though that's not what I was referring to. He could only be a Vasto Lorde if he were a Menos/Hollow. If you are talking about Vasto Lorde level power, then sure.

True say. I think she also knew Grimmjow's name? Seeing as Grimmjow was one of the oldest numeros, and presumably the most powerful for some time, I'd say that he was in the Espada. He could probably have been #2.

Damn post-at-the-bottom-of-the-page situation.

Originally posted by King Kandy
That's because Baraggan was arrogant and belligerent, and didn't like Aizen. Starrk wanted companionship. The way they were recruited is no indication of their power, only their personalities.

i agree...

i still think that Starrk's reasons for entering the Espada is still a testament to his power...

I guess because he was killing all other Hollows... we don't know how strong they were though, but they could not have been Vasto Lordes, and probably weren't Adjuchas either because then his pressure would have killed the weaker shinigami during his battle. I'm inclined to think they weren't menos at all and were just some no-name hollows since Lilynette is apparently weaker than a Gillian.

Still a good feat to his credit, mind you. But no reason to think Hollows like Baraggan were totally outclassed.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I guess because he was killing all other Hollows... we don't know how strong they were though, but they could not have been Vasto Lordes, and probably weren't Adjuchas either because then his pressure would have killed the weaker shinigami during his battle. I'm inclined to think they weren't menos at all and were just some no-name hollows since Lilynette is apparently weaker than a Gillian.

Still a good feat to his credit, mind you. But no reason to think Hollows like Baraggan were totally outclassed.

of course...

i just think it's badass to kill hollows, fodder or not, with your mere presence, like the paladin's aura in diablo 2...

Originally posted by King Kandy
I guess because he was killing all other Hollows... we don't know how strong they were though, but they could not have been Vasto Lordes, and probably weren't Adjuchas either because then his pressure would have killed the weaker shinigami during his battle. I'm inclined to think they weren't menos at all and were just some no-name hollows since Lilynette is apparently weaker than a Gillian.

Still a good feat to his credit, mind you. But no reason to think Hollows like Baraggan were totally outclassed.

It's entirely up to speculation at this point. So we can speculate that Starrk didn't know how to properly control his reiatsu at that point, but did learn how to do so some time after joining Aizen. Lilynette never died probably due to the fact that she was his Zanpakutou in a manner of speaking.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
True, but thaty was "years ago" it's possible he's evolved into a VL by then. Neliel is a VL atleast.

You know i've often been curious, who do you suppose was above Neliel when she was 3?

At the end of anime episodes. you can probably youtube it

Well assuming Starrk and Barragan were around back then, they would definately be above her. Nel as well. Maybe Halibel, though I remain unimpressed by her.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I thought only a pure Hollow could "evolve?" Why is Nel? She has not shown to be anywhere near as powerful as Ulquiorra, Barragan, or Starrk, and was only the third Espada of a weaker generation, where she was only a little stronger than current Nnoitra.

Well assuming Starrk and Barragan were around back then, they would definately be above her. Nel as well. Maybe Halibel, though I remain unimpressed by her.

(I assume EA is referring to power level when she says VL, as there is no way an Arrancar can become a VL, that's like an impossible devolution in status, going from an Arrancar to Hollow)

EA believes that Nnoitra gained VL level power. As pre-child Nel was stronger than current Nnoitra, logically, she should have at least VL-level power.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I guess because he was killing all other Hollows... we don't know how strong they were though, but they could not have been Vasto Lordes, and probably weren't Adjuchas either because then his pressure would have killed the weaker shinigami during his battle. I'm inclined to think they weren't menos at all and were just some no-name hollows since Lilynette is apparently weaker than a Gillian.

Still a good feat to his credit, mind you. But no reason to think Hollows like Baraggan were totally outclassed.

You are correct. I pointed this out earlier. Lilynette was weaker than a Gillian...yet, she didn't die.

So, we know that the hollows he was killing were all very low level hollows.

She was his 'zanpakutou' though.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
(I assume EA is referring to power level when she says VL, as there is no way an Arrancar can become a VL, that's like an impossible devolution in status, going from an Arrancar to Hollow)

EA believes that Nnoitra gained VL level power. As pre-child Nel was stronger than current Nnoitra, logically, she should have at least VL-level power.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I thought only a pure Hollow could "evolve?" Why is Nel? She has not shown to be anywhere near as powerful as Ulquiorra, Barragan, or Starrk, and was only the third Espada of a weaker generation, where she was only a little stronger than current Nnoitra.

Well assuming Starrk and Barragan were around back then, they would definately be above her. Nel as well. Maybe Halibel, though I remain unimpressed by her.

Well what you said truly is why i suspect Nel is a VL.

Why else would Aizen send her looking for VL's if she was incapable of capturing one, or being too weak to reason with one?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
(I assume EA is referring to power level when she says VL, as there is no way an Arrancar can become a VL, that's like an impossible devolution in status, going from an Arrancar to Hollow)

EA believes that Nnoitra gained VL level power. As pre-child Nel was stronger than current Nnoitra, logically, she should have at least VL-level power.

(Pretty much)

Originally posted by NemeBro
That is under the assumption Nnoitra has VL power, or near it, he is vastly inferior to Ulquiorra, Starrk, and Barragan.

Well as i said, i look at it like this:

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Nnoitra only fought Kenpachi in a physical blade battle, in which Kenpachi is well beyond the average captain.

Anyone else proud of how well we've derailed this thread? 😄

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Well what you said truly is why i suspect Nel is a VL.

Why else would Aizen send her looking for VL's if she was incapable of capturing one, or being too weak to reason with one?

Well as i said, i look at it like this:

Anyone else proud of how well we've derailed this thread? 😄

2. Nnoitra is a physical combatant, that is his specialty as well.

3. I have made thread derailment an art form hun, you know that. 131

Originally posted by NemeBro
That is under the assumption Nnoitra has VL power, or near it, he is vastly inferior to Ulquiorra, Starrk, and Barragan.

The way I see it, Nnoitra has enough power to qualify as a VL (in power), such that he is at least a low-level 'VL'.

The other three you mentioned are leagues beyond any of the other Arrancar we've seen. High level VL's if you will.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Anyone else proud of how well we've derailed this thread? 😄

Grimmjow wins! 😏 He's much cooler than that stuck-up pretty-boy.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Ah, that is true, but you must consider that she was already an Arrancar by then, increasing her power, she could have merely been an Adjuchas, but after being powered was of a Vasto Lorde level, which I do not doubt.

2. Nnoitra is a physical combatant, that is his specialty as well.

3. I have made thread derailment an art form hun, you know that. 131

1. Hmmm, i see, but she's still of VL power level, even supposing she previously was not one. Either way, i gather you agree with my point.

2. True, but so are most current top bleach characters (?)

3. That you may have, but between us, are are making it a sport! shock

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

Grimmjow wins! 😏

Originally posted by EvilAngel
1. Hmmm, i see, but she's still of VL power level, even supposing she previously was not one. Either way, i gather you agree with my point.

2. True, but so are most current top bleach characters (?)

3. That you may have, but between us, are are making it a sport! shock

no2

✅...I even stated why 😛 (edited).
Personal opinion, woman. It's the core of our debates, and it's mostly why we all disagree at times.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
✅...I even stated why (edited).
Personal opinion, woman. It's the core of our debates, and it's mostly why we all disagree at times.

Your reason is wrong on the grounds it sucks!

Byakuya wins because his sword turns pinks..... blatantly a winning factor.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Your reason is wrong on the grounds it sucks!

Byakuya wins because his sword turns pinks..... blatantly a winning factor.

You're wrong there m'lady.
Grimmjow's is blue I might add. Which is as much WIN as pink. So Blue's WIN cancels out Pinks' WIN, which leaves just kewlness. Ergo, Grimmjow wins!

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You're wrong there m'lady.
Grimmjow's is blue I might add. Which is as much WIN as pink. So Blue's WIN cancels out Pinks' WIN, which leaves just kewlness. Ergo, Grimmjow wins!

Omigosh, using maths on me. Sneaky... glare

Nemebro! I need a mathimatician!!