Originally posted by EvilAngelHe thought he was god of Hueco Mundo...Which he was. Aizen did not reside in Hueco Mundo until recent dates, and you are mistaking his claims of godhood with claims of omniscience, granted the god thing was an arrogant boast, but he did rule Hueco Mundo.
He was under the belief he was a god. If so then one would think he assumed everyone and everything was under his rule. The fact he was unable to identify Aizen was a sign he's not aware of things beyond his borders.
Originally posted by Luminatus
I never said you said that. I simply said that thinking the top Espada aren't VLs is stupid. A lot of people do actually subscribe to that theory.So who do you think is a Vasto Lordes?
Seems i misinterpreted, i thought you implied i said that.
So, do you think Yammy is a Vasto Lorde?
As i see it the only ones we can confirm are most likely VL's are Stark, and Wonderwiess.
In my opinion?
Stark, Wonderwiess and Ulquiorra
Originally posted by NemeBro
He thought he was god of Hueco Mundo...Which he was. Aizen did not reside in Hueco Mundo until recent dates, and you are mistaking his claims of godhood with claims of omniscience, granted the god thing was an arrogant boast, but he did rule Hueco Mundo.
The first thing (or one of) he said was, "you don't have masks, so you're not hollows". This pretty much proves he has limited knowledge of Hueco Mundo. He was not immediately certain there were not hollow. If he was ruling ALL of Hueco Mundo he'd be aware of 3 beings stronger than himself. Niether did he seem to be aware of Stark.
Everything said about Barragan is tripe imo 😬
I see no reason to think he knew anything about Hueco Mundo beyond Las Noches.
Originally posted by EvilAngelWhat the hell are you talking about? There is literally one Hollow who apparently lacked a mask, and that was Starrk. Once again, you are asserting that ruling something requires you to be omniscient of everything in it. Barragan is no Enel. 😛 Limited knowledge? How do you come up with this conclusion, though of course it is limited, just not to the extent you seem to believe. Three beings stronger than himself? And...Who would those be? Surely you are not including Tousen and Gin into that claim, especially Tousen, and Gin has not proven to be stronger either. Aizen sure. Starrk, yeah he supposedly is, but I do not see why. Wonderweiss is not stronger than Barragan, he was having his ass kicked by a Liutenant Arrancar, until her mask broke she was dominating him.
The first thing (or one of) he said was, "you don't have masks, so you're not hollows". This pretty much proves he has limited knowledge of Hueco Mundo. He was not immediately certain there were not hollow. If he was ruling ALL of Hueco Mundo he'd be aware of 3 beings stronger than himself. Niether did he seem to be aware of Stark.Everything said about Barragan is tripe imo 😬
I see no reason to think he knew anything about Hueco Mundo beyond Las Noches.
Also, you once mentioned he had no showings of strength, speed, or durability.
Untrue.
In terms of physical strength, he smashed a large building with a casual swipe of his axe.
In terms of speed, he was able to surprise Soifon, one of the fastest Shinigami, with his and grab her.
In terms of durability, he tanked Soifon's Bankai pretty well.
Originally posted by NemeBro
What the hell are you talking about? There is literally one Hollow who apparently lacked a mask, and that was Starrk. Once again, you are asserting that ruling something requires you to be omniscient of everything in it. Barragan is no Enel. 😛 Limited knowledge? How do you come up with this conclusion, though of course it is limited, just not to the extent you seem to believe. Three beings stronger than himself? And...Who would those be? Surely you are not including Tousen and Gin into that claim, especially Tousen, and Gin has not proven to be stronger either. Aizen sure. Starrk, yeah he supposedly is, but I do not see why. Wonderweiss is not stronger than Barragan, he was having his ass kicked by a Liutenant Arrancar, until her mask broke she was dominating him.Also, you once mentioned he had no showings of strength, speed, or durability.
Untrue.
In terms of physical strength, he smashed a large building with a casual swipe of his axe.
In terms of speed, he was able to surprise Soifon, one of the fastest Shinigami, with his and grab her.
In terms of durability, he tanked Soifon's Bankai pretty well.
Don't get so worked up.
Okay, let's try this again. Why do you think he knew of Hueco Mundo, outside of Las Noches. Any proof of it at all?
Destroying a building is your strength feat... I'm not sure how that could be considered a feat of strength as no character has has difficulty in doing that same by accident. I mean, Grimmjow kicked Ichigo through several buildings in Las Noches, yet i doubt he's stronger than Barragan.
I'm unaware of this feat. I looked it up and all i could find as a Shunpo to her.
I would guess his aura of decay prevented most of the damage.
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Why do you think this?
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/06/
Obviously they were all just sitting around waiting for a fight. So if there was anyone to attack, they would have gone for it.
Originally posted by King Kandy
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/03/http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/06/
Obviously they were all just sitting around waiting for a fight. So if there was anyone to attack, they would have gone for it.
...Even if there was possibly nothing beyond their 'kingdom' ?
They'd run all around for potentially eternity looking for something to put under their rule? Why? he believes himself to be god, the result in his mind would be he'd win, nothing interesting.
He was so bored that he would have made his army fight itself. And you're telling me, he wouldn't have been interested in invasion. Especially since he said his army was awaiting invasion. What exactly were they awaiting if they though they were all there was? There's nothing to make us think he has such a limited viewpoint, all other Hollow's seemed to know there were others around so why not Barragan? Why do you think he alone would somehow be completely ignorant of anything beyond like a 3 mile radius?
Originally posted by King Kandy
He was so bored that he would have made his army fight itself. And you're telling me, he wouldn't have been interested in invasion. Especially since he said his army was [b]awaiting invasion. What exactly were they awaiting if they though they were all there was? There's nothing to make us think he has such a limited viewpoint, all other Hollow's seemed to know there were others around so why not Barragan? Why do you think he alone would somehow be completely ignorant of anything beyond like a 3 mile radius? [/B]
Because he acts like he's the strongest, and that just isn't true. Simply put.
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
actually its the opposite in that we dont take a characters personality into account. if we did then villains would always lose their fights because they underestimate their opponents spiderman would pull all of his punches naruto would hold back against sasuke etc. generally for vs. fights its assumed that both people are fighting to the best of their ability and will pull out all the stops to win.in other news a seagull pooped on me while i was on my way to school this morning. 🙁
CIS is still counted in fights.
And.... 😆
Sucks. 😂
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Because i have my doubts being who are hundreds of years old would get much stronger than their current level within a few months.I've been doing some thinking. And it's occurred to me.
"All the captains got stronger" or any statement which resembles this. Is wrong.
We all agree that Bleach is inconsistent strength-wise. So because it;s the captains that seemed to have become buffed we label them as inconsistent. But that assumption is wrong.
"The simplest solution is most often the right one"
Ichigo.
The only person that allows us any insight that makes us think the captains became stronger in order to fight the espada is Ichigo.
I work on the basis the less you have to change in a problem to make it correct would be the simplest. So when i thought about All the captains got a power boost, even Kenpachi who we saw lazing on his butt it didn't seem simple. But in one sentence i found a plausible solution.
Ichigo got weaker.
If that's true, everything fits.
My theory is simply that while his Hollow was fighting him for control his powers were drained. After gaining his mask back he began to learn to use his powers again, thus climbing the ladder back to where he was before.
And before you say it, this does have some backing to it
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/218/20/
It was after Ichigo attained Bankai did Shirosaki make his first appearance as Ichigo. I theorise after learning BanKai that is when Shirosaki became stronger then Zangetsu, and starting screwing with Ichigo's power.
And before you say, Ichigo's got stronger even after he got his mask. It's been shown his mask has been changing, that is likely the cause of that.
At the very least that makes more sense than random power boosts for all captains because they did a ickle bit of training.
Isn't this all basically what I said back in the Kenpachi thread?
Ichio's power is flat out stated to be inconsistent on a second by second basis.. no theories needed.
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Okay.... so he rule over a bunch of hollows in a large/super sized city area in the Japan region in the hollow world. That makes him the king of all hollows in all the world? I think that's a little silly. Given only Barragan claimed he was the king of all Hollows, and i think it's fair to say we all know how far up his own arse he was.Barragan was surrounded by servants and minions all the time.
Any that were around stark, literally died from his spiritual pressure. Stark is in a different league to Barragan.
So far, Toshiro's statements are all we have on who is and is not a VL. There is less going for Barragan being one than against him, that's all there is to it.
I don't recall this. I remember her saying his power had become wild, or there along the lines of, but nothing of what you're saying.
It's just a theory of mine that has less plot holes than assuming all captains got a random power boost. I'm not saying "This is the truth, believe it" just that as i see it, this makes a heck of all more sense than what else we have for idea's.
A B C logic is a fail. Exactly why most peoples arguments for this fight doesn't do anything for me.
Wait wait wait.
Baranggan is now being demoted from King of all Hallows for ALL of Hueco Mundo to just a group leader? When did this happen?
And, no, Baranggan is the only confirmed Vasto Lorde. Sure, it wasn't stated directly, but being the King of all hallows would put him above every hallow including other Vasto Lorde.
So you guys don't think I'm making up that he was king of ALL of Hueco Mundo:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/371/07/
Tousen refers to Baranggan as the King of Hueco Mundo.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Wait wait wait.Baranggan is now being demoted from King of all Hallows for ALL of Hueco Mundo to just a group leader? When did this happen?
And, no, Baranggan is the only confirmed Vasto Lorde. Sure, it wasn't stated directly, but being the King of all hallows would put him above every hallow including other Vasto Lorde.
It's not happening, this is simply my thoughts on it. Everyone else is disagreeing understandably, but i'm just stating my opinion.
Which to be fair i stated before i even mentioned imo Barragan isn't a VL.
Originally posted by EvilAngel
It's not happening, this is simply my thoughts on it. Everyone else is disagreeing understandably, but i'm just stating my opinion.Which to be fair i stated before i even mentioned imo Barragan isn't a VL.
Baranggan is the only one that we can definitively say is a Vasto Lorde. All of the others, it is speculation. Including Starrk.
Originally posted by EvilAngelNO YOU DON'T GET SO WORKED UP!!!
Don't get so worked up.Okay, let's try this again. Why do you think he knew of Hueco Mundo, outside of Las Noches. Any proof of it at all?
Destroying a building is your strength feat... I'm not sure how that could be considered a feat of strength as no character has has difficulty in doing that same by accident. I mean, Grimmjow kicked Ichigo through several buildings in Las Noches, yet i doubt he's stronger than Barragan.
I'm unaware of this feat. I looked it up and all i could find as a Shunpo to her.
I would guess his aura of decay prevented most of the damage.
Hun, most of the time you tell me to not get worked up, I am completely calm.
Why? A better question is what leads you to believe Barragan and Barragan alone had absolutely no knowledge of Hueco Mundo beyond a few miles? He is not merely proclaiming himself the king of Hueco Mundo, others in the manga support and refer to him as such.
What do you think takes more strength, punching through a wall, or punching the wall with enough force to cut directly through the entire thing? That was what Barragan did. Sealed, I may add. The only person with definately better cutting feats is Kenpachi, that I can recall anyway. Also, he was able to completely overpower Soifon physically, something not even her mentor, Yoruichi, was able to do, the same Yoruichi who could physically knock out Yammy, who although the weakest sealed did have fairly impressive Hierro.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/356/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/356/16/
Was able to clear the distance between them instantly, which clearly shocked Soifon, a display of his speed, and it is called Sonido. 131
It was not fast enough that time, which was the point.
Also, I think you are underrating his power over time...All things considered, it is among the most broken abilities in the series.
I find it hard to consider Barragan anything but a Vasto Lorde.
Originally posted by dadudemonNah, I would say that is a given.
Baranggan is the only one that we can definitively say is a Vasto Lorde. All of the others, it is speculation. Including Starrk.
Spiritual pressure with such power it could kill others with his presence?
That kind of pure spiritual power is unrivaled IMO.
Hmmm, i was just watchig Arrancar encyclopedia, you know it's impled all the espada are VL's?
Reguardless, i understand your reasoning. After talking about it with my friend, i've changed my mind. Before i was thinking more along the lines of indesputable proof, but, that's not what it's about. It's just about what you want to believe.
Imo, espada's 5-1 are VL's
Simply because 5 and higher (yammy beinbg the exception) use weapons even while released. Personally i take that as a sign they are VL's.
Also the statement "Vasto Lorde's battle capabilites exceed that of a captain" is generalized to your average captain.
Nnoitra only fought Kenpachi in a physical blade battle, in which Kenpachi is well beyond the average captain.
That's what i like to think atleast.
Everyone above that has shown up a captain quite clearly.