Silver Samurai Vs. Leonardo

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
stop, there no need to write all this crap, that could be said in a 3 lines. First off the page one was done in 2009 two years ago.

Second they do face lots of street thugs, and foot ninjas (which might as well be hand ninjas) ect. they fight a lot of cannon fodder and constantly. though it could be argued that all comic characters do this.

Thats wrong. in fact that was something added to the TV show. That was never part of the comic, in fact mikey barly even had a personality through most of volume one and 2

SS feats are way better he would destroy leo. Leo would stand no chance, unless SS decided to not use his powers and even then he would handily beat leo.

OK, there really isn't a need to insult what I wrote as crap, this is an internet forum where people discuss comics, it's really not a place to get angry, although it seems some people do get quite angry about this stuff.

It's not something that was added to the TV show, it was stated in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles & Other Strangeness the role playing game based on Eastman and Lairds original comic and published in 1985 before the franchise took off, the TV show first aired (pilot) in 1987 so it pre dates it by two years.

The game was endorsed by Eastman and Laird and featured a lot of artwork from the comics run.

As you say heroes in comics go through a lot of fodder thugs and ninjas etc but what you said implied that was all Leo fought, I appreciate it was a post from 09 but the thread was bumped and this is the first time I'd seen it and you seemed to be continuing that trend with C master after the bump when you seemed to be saying they had never fought anyone on SS level in comics.

I like C master would disagree but it's all subjective and up for debate which is why we're all here.

Originally posted by BigSid
OK, there really isn't a need to insult what I wrote as crap, this is an internet forum where people discuss comics, it's really not a place to get angry, although it seems some people do get quite angry about this stuff.

Originally posted by BigSid
It's not something that was added to the TV show, it was stated in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles & Other Strangeness the role playing game based on Eastman and Lairds original comic and published in 1985 before the franchise took off, the TV show first aired (pilot) in 1987 so it pre dates it by two years.

yet was never mention single time in the comics, but was however mentioned in the tv show in which mikey became far bigger character then ever in the comics. Not sure how a game proves anything. Not sure you understand what evidence is. Nor was it created by the authors of the comics either. Is in no way shape or form evidence of anything. It be like me trying to use marvel role playing game to back up claims of silver samurai.

Originally posted by BigSid

The game was endorsed by Eastman and Laird and featured a lot of artwork from the comics run.

Originally posted by BigSid
As you say heroes in comics go through a lot of fodder thugs and ninjas etc but what you said implied that was all Leo fought, I appreciate it was a post from 09 but the thread was bumped and this is the first time I'd seen it and you seemed to be continuing that trend with C master after the bump when you seemed to be saying they had never fought anyone on SS level in comics.

Originally posted by BigSid

I like C master would disagree but it's all subjective and up for debate which is why we're all here.

On a side note, I am glad someone else has seen that role playing game. I saw it at a local DnD store about 5 or 6 years ago and still pissed at myself for not buying it.

Also tried to argue it as evidence as I did try to argue SW role playing game as evidence on this very sight. It not evidence. Rules go quite against it. At first i did not understand why, but it because of how inaccurate such books are and the fact they are still very much a game. Were things need to be even out and characters need to have things tweeked to make the game more inviting.

Also if you own the game, could you tell me Mikey stats compared to ralph. I remember Mikey and leo having the best stats over all (not that it matter for a debate, just curious)

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I not angry nor trying to be insulting. In fact edited that part out, u must have quoted my post almost instantly.

yet was never mention single time in the comics, but was however mentioned in the tv show in which mikey became far bigger character then ever in the comics. Not sure how a game proves anything. Not sure you understand what evidence is. Nor was it created by the authors of the comics either. Is in no way shape or form evidence of anything. It be like me trying to use marvel role playing game to back up claims of silver samurai.

yes and? So does the marvel role playing game, does not make it accurate.

Yes leo has never fought a single foe one on one that was SS caliber and won.

In my opinion it quite easy to see who more superior and it from reading both SS and the ninja turtles. SS done things like match wolverine, deflected individual gun firer, defeat a being with knolwedge and mastery of almost every single martial art on the planet plus enhanced abilities, beating down spiderman ect.

Well I believe that the character profiles on the Turtles were written by Eastman and Laird although I would have to check my copy to be sure.

I used it because it actually includes an issue of the comic in it and the creators of the franchise had creative input on it, so it's admissible as evidence because of said input by the comics creators.

I was also using it as evidence that the theory about the Turtles differing abilities pre dates the TV show.

I'm glad you're not angry, you seem like a knowledgeable guy who is well read on his characters and I would agree that SS takes a majority but I think Leo can take a couple off him.

If you can post some stuff to change my opinion on that then I would be happy to look at it, I've only read a few of his appearances, the most impressive of which was when he took on Revanche, Psylocke, Beast and Gambit and held his own for a while, that alone was enough evidence for me to give him a majority but if you have better showings I could be swayed to agree a 10/10.

At the moment I would go SS 7 or 8/10 though.

Originally posted by BigSid
Well I believe that the character profiles on the Turtles were written by Eastman and Laird although I would have to check my copy to be sure.

I used it because it actually includes an issue of the comic in it and the creators of the franchise had creative input on it, so it's admissible as evidence because of said input by the comics creators.

I was also using it as evidence that the theory about the Turtles differing abilities pre dates the TV show.

I'm glad you're not angry, you seem like a knowledgeable guy who is well read on his characters and I would agree that SS takes a majority but I think Leo can take a couple off him.

If you can post some stuff to change my opinion on that then I would be happy to look at it, I've only read a few of his appearances, the most impressive of which was when he took on Revanche, Psylocke, Beast and Gambit and held his own for a while, that alone was enough evidence for me to give him a majority but if you have better showings I could be swayed to agree a 10/10.

At the moment I would go SS 7 or 8/10 though.

In fact the issue in it are completely separate of TMNT comic cannon. They even went as far as to add new characters and so forth. Making it very much not useable as evidence. Rules of the forum would never allow it as evidence anyways. Even hand books are only secondary sources.

Pre dates the show perhaps, but disagree about it being part of the comics. Also the show aired in 87, but when did it begin work on it?

thanks, you as well my friend. I just dont think leo stand a chance against SS when his weapons can't even wistand a single hit.

I see what I can dig up. He has a number of limited apearances, but I believe I can locate the scans around here. If not I can at the very least provide the issue and title as well as description of what occured, for you to look up if you wish to varify.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Please check, but I am pretty certain it was not written by them.

In fact the issue in it are completely separate of TMNT comic cannon. They even went as far as to add new characters and so forth. Making it very much not useable as evidence. Rules of the forum would never allow it as evidence anyways. Even hand books are only secondary sources.

Pre dates the show perhaps, but disagree about it being part of the comics. Also the show aired in 87, but when did it begin work on it?

thanks, you as well my friend. I just dont think leo stand a chance against SS when his weapons can't even wistand a single hit.

I see what I can dig up. He has a number of limited apearances, but I believe I can locate the scans around here. If not I can at the very least provide the issue and title as well as description of what occured, for you to look up if you wish to varify.

OK, I dug through the spare room and pulled out my copy.

All the artwork for the book was done by both Kevin and Peter and the issue inside was written by them too.

They had creative input on the characters and even the new ones for the game like the Nightmare Bears are credited to them but it looks like they only had input on the actual profiles not actually wrote them so I concede that.

You asked about their stat lines in the game, if you're familiar with Heroes unlimited and Ninjas and Superspies I will write them as normal, if you're unsure of any of the stat lines, I can clarify them for you.

Leo

IQ 16 ME 16 MA 17 PS 15 PP 20 PE 18 PB 11 SPD 11

Raph

IQ 12 ME 13 MA 11 PS 20 PP 18 PE 20 PB 5 SPD 15

Mikey

IQ 11 ME 14 MA 19 PS 16 PP 24 PE 17 PB 16 SPD 14

And for the hell of it

Donny

IQ 19 ME 15 MA 12 PS 13 PP 17 PE 13 PB 9 SPD 10

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
No you posted two things. Niether of which was even a feat for a guy like punisher.

I should have been clearlier. I was refferring to him beat any of them one on one, not combind.

no idea.

Plot device wins in a story are different than what happen on forums, like Spider-Man.

if you're not wolverine, silver samurai's sword goes through you (and your weapon) like a red hot knife through pre-liquefied butter

He's not immune to weapons himself though.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He's not immune to weapons himself though.

I doing a paper and delaing with pea in another thread so I respond to the rest later. Just wanted add that little bit.

Resistance, no immunity.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Resistance, no immunity.

Originally posted by BigSid
OK, I dug through the spare room and pulled out my copy.

All the artwork for the book was done by both Kevin and Peter and the issue inside was written by them too.

They had creative input on the characters and even the new ones for the game like the Nightmare Bears are credited to them but it looks like they only had input on the actual profiles not actually wrote them so I concede that.

You asked about their stat lines in the game, if you're familiar with Heroes unlimited and Ninjas and Superspies I will write them as normal, if you're unsure of any of the stat lines, I can clarify them for you.

Leo

IQ 16 ME 16 MA 17 PS 15 PP 20 PE 18 PB 11 SPD 11

Raph

IQ 12 ME 13 MA 11 PS 20 PP 18 PE 20 PB 5 SPD 15

Mikey

IQ 11 ME 14 MA 19 PS 16 PP 24 PE 17 PB 16 SPD 14

And for the hell of it

Donny

IQ 19 ME 15 MA 12 PS 13 PP 17 PE 13 PB 9 SPD 10

really, when I looked it up the source I got said it was not cannon. However it did not say they dident right it, I simply assumed based off the fact it was consider not cannon. Interest, perhaps my source was missinformed and that the comics in play were cannon.

yea could you please tell me what the stats mean? I never played those games before.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
With all of his abilities he has an edge on certain versions. Not on all, and their feats are very good. The comics aren't too abundant there.

Plot device wins in a story are different than what happen on forums, like Spider-Man.

I not sure what you are refferring to with the second part. Me and you were not even discussing fights or spiderman. If you could please elaberate on what you are refferring to, I could better answer.

Originally posted by SquallX
Can i beat an *******, and say Leo turns into his dragon form, and rip SS in two. 😛

Leo has a dragon form? bad ass.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Certain version? He beat any comic version handily. There feats in comics are not all that impressive. There current stuff is there most impressive to date and I not even sure it cannon to the original stories. They still have comics coming out to this day. They have more apearances then SS, so playing that card does not work. He has less showing and yet still more impressive displays. Not to mention Thunder cats also have much less comic appearances then the ninja turtles, but again consistently higher showings to boot. Appearances or lack of does not favore the turtle in this debate.

I not sure what you are refferring to with the second part. Me and you were not even discussing fights or spiderman. If you could please elaberate on what you are refferring to, I could better answer.

Comics they are just like the other streets. They are just fine.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
really, when I looked it up the source I got said it was not cannon. However it did not say they dident right it, I simply assumed based off the fact it was consider not cannon. Interest, perhaps my source was missinformed and that the comics in play were cannon.

yea could you please tell me what the stats mean? I never played those games before.

Well the story written by Kevin and Peter about the Turtles going to a fancy dress party at April's and ending up beating up some thugs and trashing their costumes so going as themselves may well not be canon.

However exerts from their origin is in their and that is canon, the characters created purely for the game are not canon but they do have the Eastman and Laird signature against each one of them.

OK back to the stats

IQ - Intelligence Quotient 16 or above is exceptional so Raph and Mikey are average intelligence, Leo is highly intelligent and Don is a genius!

ME - is Mental Endurance is shows how well a character stands up to mental attacks and Psionics and their potential to develop mental powers again 16 or above is exceptional Leo's focus is shown in this stat and he's resistant where as the others are on the high side of average.

MA- is Mental Affinity it shows charm and charisma, 16 or higher is exceptional, so Mikey with 19 is the most charming and charismatic with Leo being high there too which shows he's a good leader, Don and Raph are just average

PS= is Physical Strength 1-14 character can lift 30 times their PS 15-19 means the character can lift their PS times 40 20-23 can lift 60 times their PS 24 or higher can lift 100 times their PS so Leo would be able to lift 600lbs so he's approaching peak human according to the game, Mikey is 640lbs so slightly Stronger Raph, can lift 1200lbs so he is slightly superhuman in strength and Donny is in at 390lbs.

PP - Physical prowess this is the characters agility and dexterity 16 and above is exceptional and all are above 16 but Mikey owns with 24!

PE - Physical endurance, stamina and durability all apart from Donny are above average but Raph is the most durable and toughest according to his stat

PB - Physical beauty 16 and above being high, as you can expect they're turtles so only Mikey gets a high score and this is based on him being loveable and funny rather than good looking!

SPD - Speed this stat times 20 is the number of yards a character can run in one minute Raph is the fastest at 300 yards in a minute, then Mikey with 280 then Leo with 200 and finally Don at 200 yards in a minute.

Raph in the game was basically a brick, tough and strong and able to take more damage than the others Mikey was the hardest to hit and could block hits and strike better than the others and Leo was somewhere in between the two, the best of both worlds as it were.

When we used to play as kids NO ONE wanted to be Don! lol

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They've all been proved canon.

Comics they are just like the other streets. They are just fine.

No there not. There feats are less impressive then marvels or DC street levelers the higher level ones anyways

When were those stats created, they seem more like the time of Turtles in Time stats and not the most recent (Raph being the fastest, or Mike being the strongest.)

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Based on what?

No there not. There feats are less impressive then marvels or DC street levelers.