Thor & Captain Marvel Vs. Wonder Woman & Orion

Originally posted by tideoftime
The first time Diana displayed this trick was (as I mentioned above) around WW#22, or 23 or so, 2nd Series, about 20 years ago. She has accomplished this feat on several occasions since then (repelling/resisting the likes of sustained attacks by Darkseid's Omega Effect -- much to his annoyance -- and the overt power of other gods and similar beings). It is not something she does all the time (in writing terms, it's one of her more marginal abilites), but it has saved a number of people on several occasions, including Superman, when she protected him against (the aforementioned) Omega Effect, and more recently saving him from the heatvision/green latern energy attacks from Amazo in the JLA story-arc from issues #24-28 (might be off an issue or two there, as I am not near the books, but that's about right)...

There are many, MANY people who underestimate Diana because they don't understand how she has changed and evolved over the past 3 decades, and even before Crisis on Infinite Earths... it's why discussions like this often fall flat to some people, because they don't understand that she is on par with Superman, Captain Marvel, Thor, and similar heroes, not simply in regards to strength (as she is nearly as strong as any of them) but other abilities that she possesses...

50/50 split.

I'm thinking it's gonna be one hell of a long drawn out battle. This as even a match as i can think up. An extra super duper long fight favors team one, while a bit shorter one (still long drawn out battle) I believe favors team two.

Team 1 all day. WW's a weak link.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Team 1 all day. WW's a weak link.

Another poster who doesn't read the books... a shame...

Though it *is* said that ignorance is bliss...

Must be very blissful where you are...

I almost envy you...

Originally posted by tideoftime
Another poster who doesn't read the books... a shame...

Though it *is* said that ignorance is bliss...

Must be very blissful where you are...

I almost envy you...

In this thread she is the weak link without a doubt.

If you can prove me wrong then do so.

Originally posted by BattleMage
Well spoken! Team 1 ftw.

Thank you.

While I voted *marginal* Team 2, like I said further up I ain't putting any money on them, as I can also see why Team 1 could win also, so it really is a coin toss, for the most part. (The slightest edge that 2 has is if Wonder Woman and Orion can co-ordinate themselves, they are better strategic fighters than Team 1... but like I said: it's a close one...)

Originally posted by tideoftime
Thank you.

While I voted *marginal* Team 2, like I said further up I ain't putting any money on them, as I can also see why Team 1 could win also, so it really is a coin toss, for the most part. (The slightest edge that 2 has is if Wonder Woman and Orion can co-ordinate themselves, they are better strategic fighters than Team 1... but like I said: it's a close one...)

Originally posted by quanchi112
She is the weak link here. All of the other characters are stronger and more powerful than her.

In this thread she is the weak link without a doubt.

If you can prove me wrong then do so.

Have only been here a short time, but I have quickly learned several things:

1: there are enough "Respect" threads that make references and provide scans that support everyone arguements well enough, but without actually negating anyone else's points (save for fanboy hyperbole).

2: Even when someone is presented with said references/scans, it never sways them in the slightest from their flawed perceptions, by and large.

3: When someone doesn't bother reading what other people have posted within a thread (issue # references and *legitimate* citing of events/quotes), then it becomes even more obvious that that someone doesn't bother with actually keeping up on the character's being discussed, and therefore their comments don't contribute anything significant to the discussion, and should be largely ignored.

Go to the Wonder Woman respect thread that (dude who's name I've forgotten) made. He provides better examples of Diana's abilities than I have time to do.

(Or don't... Most fanbois don't bother, anyway... disturbs their sense of things...)

Originally posted by tideoftime
Have only been here a short time, but I have quickly learned several things:

1: there are enough "Respect" threads that make references and provide scans that support everyone arguements well enough, but without actually negating anyone else's points (save for fanboy hyperbole).

2: Even when someone is presented with said references/scans, it never sways them in the slightest from their flawed perceptions, by and large.

3: When someone doesn't bother reading what other people have posted within a thread (issue # references and *legitimate* citing of events/quotes), then it becomes even more obvious that that someone doesn't bother with actually keeping up on the character's being discussed, and therefore their comments don't contribute anything significant to the discussion, and should be largely ignored.

Go to the Wonder Woman respect thread that (dude who's name I've forgotten) made. He provides better examples of Diana's abilities than I have time to do.

(Or don't... Most fanbois don't bother, anyway... disturbs their sense of things...)

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor beats whoever gets in front of him. Now do you favor WW or Orion in a best of ten against the world's mightiest mortal?

Diana and Billy *have* fought each other before, and they are evenly matched (especially as her resistance to harm has improved over the past 20 years); he still *just* edges her out in terms of strength and durability, while she comes armed with artifacts than can defeat him, if properly employed, and has superior combat skills.

Orion's physical prowess against Captain Marvel is not as close, but he has other powers that aid greatly in this regard, so that is not a clear battle,either.

Thor is mighty, and stronger than Diana (though not by any degree what the fanbois believe -- she is practically as strong as Billy, and nearly as strong as Clark, as has been reiterated in the comics for over 10 years now), and his overt weopon attacks are stronger than her's, as well as his energy attacks (of which she classically has none); Diana, however, is *much* faster than he is, has defensive powers/weapons that match his assault capabilities, and she is a better tactical fighter.

This match-up is a good one, because there are not clear-cut, or majority, winners, either way.

(I state *again*, that I voted for Team 2 based *solely* on tactical finesse, and that is a slim advantage. An advantage, nonetheless, but a very narrow one...)

Originally posted by tideoftime
Diana and Billy *have* fought each other before, and they are evenly matched (especially as her resistance to harm has improved over the past 20 years); he still *just* edges her out in terms of strength and durability, while she comes armed with artifacts than can defeat him, if properly employed, and has superior combat skills.

Orion's physical prowess against Captain Marvel is not as close, but he has other powers that aid greatly in this regard, so that is not a clear battle,either.

Thor is mighty, and stronger than Diana (though not by any degree what the fanbois believe -- she is practically as strong as Billy, and nearly as strong as Clark, as has been reiterated in the comics for over 10 years now), and his overt weopon attacks are stronger than her's, as well as his energy attacks (of which she classically has none); Diana, however, is *much* faster than he is, has defensive powers/weapons that match his assault capabilities, and she is a better tactical fighter.

This match-up is a good one, because there are not clear-cut, or majority, winners, either way.

(I state *again*, that I voted for Team 2 based *solely* on tactical finesse, and that is a slim advantage. An advantage, nonetheless, but a very narrow one...)

Originally posted by tideoftime
Have only been here a short time, but I have quickly learned several things:

1: there are enough "Respect" threads that make references and provide scans that support everyone arguements well enough, but without actually negating anyone else's points (save for fanboy hyperbole).

2: Even when someone is presented with said references/scans, it never sways them in the slightest from their flawed perceptions, by and large.

3: When someone doesn't bother reading what other people have posted within a thread (issue # references and *legitimate* citing of events/quotes), then it becomes even more obvious that that someone doesn't bother with actually keeping up on the character's being discussed, and therefore their comments don't contribute anything significant to the discussion, and should be largely ignored.

Go to the Wonder Woman respect thread that (dude who's name I've forgotten) made. He provides better examples of Diana's abilities than I have time to do.

(Or don't... Most fanbois don't bother, anyway... disturbs their sense of things...)

Originally posted by tideoftime
Diana and Billy *have* fought each other before, and they are evenly matched (especially as her resistance to harm has improved over the past 20 years); he still *just* edges her out in terms of strength and durability, while she comes armed with artifacts than can defeat him, if properly employed, and has superior combat skills.

Orion's physical prowess against Captain Marvel is not as close, but he has other powers that aid greatly in this regard, so that is not a clear battle,either.

Thor is mighty, and stronger than Diana (though not by any degree what the fanbois believe -- she is practically as strong as Billy, and nearly as strong as Clark, as has been reiterated in the comics for over 10 years now), and his overt weopon attacks are stronger than her's, as well as his energy attacks (of which she classically has none); Diana, however, is *much* faster than he is, has defensive powers/weapons that match his assault capabilities, and she is a better tactical fighter.

This match-up is a good one, because there are not clear-cut, or majority, winners, either way.

(I state *again*, that I voted for Team 2 based *solely* on tactical finesse, and that is a slim advantage. An advantage, nonetheless, but a very narrow one...)

K, but I definitely see Thor's reflexes as more than quick eneough to catch her. He quickly ends her as his power dwarfs hers.

She also isn't as durable as any of the other combatants in the field either hence I stated she has to be near perfect to have a chance.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
A few corrections. Orion is the Strongest person in the fight. He's the exact physical match Of Superman. He's stale mated Superman a few times in hand to hand. And he can one shot Superman with his AF force. He can also amp his strength and punches with the Af without using his harness. He also is superfast as when he pretended to be Mister Miracle for awhile Using all of Miracles skill and acrobatics. And Diana Does have two energy attacks. One she calls a soul burn. She also has the Godwave which is some kind of energy and stats amp at the same time.

Is it me or do people give a lot of opinions with no backing? No actual retort? No instances? If they give instances they give a low showing and ignore all the other showings of the characters they do not agree with? Opinions without reference and backing are nonsensical. Opinions on low showings while ignoring high end feats of the characters that you do not like while dismissing low showings of characters you do like is 5th grade ish. I need some real debate.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Is it me or do people give a lot of opinions with no backing? No actual retort? No instances? If they give instances they give a low showing and ignore all the other showings of the characters they do not agree with? Opinions without reference and backing are nonsensical. Opinions on low showings while ignoring high end feats of the characters that you do not like while dismissing low showings of characters you do like is 5th grade ish. I need some real debate.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am basing my opinions are what these characters are capable of. WW going toe to toe with Superman is a high showing not an average one. I didn't cut her short at all. All of these characters at their best are still stronger, more durable, and more powerful than her. You can't argue with that because that's how she has always been portrayed.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
No actually Wonder Woman going against Konvict is a higher showing since he was tuff enough to go rounds with the entire JLA. And he knocked Superman out. Before He went armored form and got more powerful. Another higher showing was when she was taking shots from Ares or when she knocked him on his ass. Another higher showing for Wonder Woman was when she stood up to the shattered God who was more powerful than Ganthet, Zeus, all the greek gods and other earthly gods combined. Another Higher showing for wonder woman than Superman is when she fought Amazo by herself. Or when she fought A super doomsday. or when she fought Superman Fused with Doomsday by herself. Those are all higher feats than her fights with Superman. You did cut her short. You also cut Orion short. you said Thor was more powerful when Orion has the greater of the two's feats.

These high showings still don't changer her strength which is beneath everyone in the field.

Thor's power showings crap all over Orion's best. He injured Galactus and ran him off in fear by a godblast.

Top that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Two things. First off she had aid. Second off Superman let him punch him. Had WW let him punch her square in the jaw what do you think what have happened?

These high showings still don't changer her strength which is beneath everyone in the field.

Thor's power showings crap all over Orion's best. He injured Galactus and ran him off in fear by a godblast.

Top that.

Your strength argument holds no weight since she has stalemated CM before. She's bested a daxamite. And no one is doing that unless they are high herald level strength. You ignore her high showings and say some silly shit like her high showings don't change her strength and then in the same breath say I'm supposed to accept someone else's high showings as evidence of their strength? Tacky aweful debating tactic.

Also Orion has Contained a universe Busting blast. Yes, He has topped Thor's feat. Universe Buster>>>Galactus.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am basing my opinions are what these characters are capable of. WW going toe to toe with Superman is a high showing not an average one. I didn't cut her short at all. All of these characters at their best are still stronger, more durable, and more powerful than her. You can't argue with that because that's how she has always been portrayed.

Read your other posts, but using this one for ease of response:

See, the problem is, it sounds like you are using the interpretation of Diana from 20+ years ago; she has become incrementally more durable over the years, and throughout this decade has been categorically described, by DC, as being on par with Captain Marvel and Superman (though obviously she doesn't have all of Supes other range of powers), and even her relative vulnerability to piercing/slashing attacks has been all but neutralized, even before Infinite Crisis. Not being dismissive of your opinion, as such, but it doesn really sound like you aren't up on Diana (or confuse the nature of most of her stories/settings, as they are often not as much about stomping ass, with her standing in the DC universe).

Zeuodin: I am aware of Orion's abilities, and was giving Billy the benefit of the doubt by comparison, as a median point to bring up Orion's energy attacks, which Billy has none to compare with. Also, while Diana has *circumstantially* been in situations where she has demonstrated "out-of-character" abilities (she just in recent issues had Zeus' power of god-lightening shooting from the Aegis bracers), that is not at all the norm for her character; her speed, strength, stamina, and combat skills, however, are, and I wanted to stay focused on the consistancies, rather than the exceptions, which only feed fanbois delusions further (even the WW fanbois, who are as bad as any others'😉.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I don't know why I bothered. You are doing that same aweful debating thing again. She didn't have aid when she fought Konvict in his armored form. As you so conveniently missed, Konvict was in his lessor form when he trashed the JLA and KO'd Superman. When Wonder Woman fought him on her own, he was in his armored form. When Wonder Woman fought amazo, she had no aid. In none of the fights I mentioned did she have aid. Did she have aid when she whipped hercules's Ass? who was shown to be a peer of Superman? Who also happens to lend his strength to CM? Did she have aid when she fought Superman fused with Doomsday?

Your strength argument holds no weight since she has stalemated CM before. She's bested a daxamite. And no one is doing that unless they are high herald level strength. You ignore her high showings and say some silly shit like her high showings don't change her strength and then in the same breath say I'm supposed to accept someone else's high showings as evidence of their strength? Tacky aweful debating tactic.

Also Orion has Contained a universe Busting blast. Yes, He has topped Thor's feat. Universe Buster>>>Galactus.

I still don't see why you would use Supes getting hit when he allowed it. Do you think WW could fare better against the same blow?

None of these showings prove she is as strong as Superman/Thor/Cm/Orion. This just shows off how formidable she can be.

Besting a daxamite also doesn't mean anything in regards to the characters in this thread.

Her higher strength showings still don't put her on par with Thor or Marvel. She has good feats but can't trade blows with any of these characters. That's the point I made and you are trying your hardest to dance around that simple obvious truth.

I think you are exaggerating again. When did Orion contain a universal blast?