Originally posted by quanchi112
If you want to get involved in this argument then do so. Your taunts/insults are awfully childish. Because in confidential that was ages ago as opposed to Supes doing much better in that regard. In death of the new gods Supes was described as Ds's physical peer not Orion. I think Supes is a lot more formidable physically than Ds. His showings and Ds's submission when his omegas failed and total and complete reliance on this against Superman more than proves it.She was ko'd by Superman in issue 219. Re entry woke her back up.
Which new gods book? You have a habit of exaggerating and I think this is another example. Please be specific.
Because that is un undebatable fact. She has the reflexes and the skills to fight characters more powerful than her. Strength wise she doesn't cut the mustard. The titans in this thread have her number.
Supes also wasn't in his right state of mind. The point is she couldn't take his blows for very long and was already ko'd once. She used a cheapshot to get back into the fight and held back with her kicks right after he rang his ears and good.
Supes won't be staring around at trees in a forum fight looking for Diana nor will Thor or Marvel.
Originally posted by ZeuodinShe was trying to defend herself. He snapped it. She didn't offer him her wrist? Supes offered his face and freely took the shot.
Your argument falls to pieces. You know why? because you said earlier the only reason konvict could Ko superman was because he wasn't fighting back. Well I'm using your argument. the only reason wonder woman's wrist was broken and she was KO'd is because she wasn't fighting back. Superman was also near the sun. Sun amp. It was stated in DOTNG that SUPERMAN AND ORION were Peers in strength of DS. You are leaving that part out to suit your pathetic argument. You are also giving opinon again with no backing. Reflexes and Skill will not allow Wonder Woman to literally stand there and trade blows with Konvict. Nor would Reflexes and Skill allow her to stand toe to toe with CM and Superman Doomsday fusion. If Speed and Skill were all it took then Captain America could fight the Hulk all on his own. In a forum fight, Wonder Woman won't be trying to use krytonite to calm her friend down. She won't be holding back as stated right in the comic. She also won't do anything stupid like trying to lasso someone when the lasso can coil around it's victim on it's own.
You can't even compare the two so please quit with this rather shaky comparison.
IT WASN'T STATED ORION WAS A PHYSICAL RIVAL. I don't twist facts on person to win people over to my side. his rage and his link to the astro force was described. That's why he can deal with Superman. I don't see him as strong as Superman nor do his showings support this.
I'm usually always right. Let this be a reminder, k.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Scangstas-DOTNG2-p18-1.jpg
Captain America lacks the power to deal with the Hulk while WW is close enough in terms of power to hurt these characters. She just isn't durable enough to take as many hits as they can dish out.
None of the characters will also be foolishly standing there looking for her like Superman was in issue 219.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Supes also wasn't in his right state of mind. The point is she couldn't take his blows for very long and was already ko'd once. She used a cheapshot to get back into the fight and held back with her kicks right after he rang his ears and good.Supes won't be staring around at trees in a forum fight looking for Diana nor will Thor or Marvel.
Right. Superman *wasn't* in his right state of mind: he was assaulting her in a manner more aggressive and over-the-top than he almost ever demonstrates, ever. He wasn't holding back anything, and was fighting to the death (in his mind). Diana *was* holding back, until it became obvious that doing so would be fatal. And Diana's use of her tiara/bracers is not a "cheap" shot, in any way, shape or form; it's one of her signature maneuvers (using the bracelets to enhance the effect of her blunt attacks, or her tiara as a lethal attack, as she has slain gods with her god-weopons -- Deimos being the first, and even Hermes' was nearly decapitated by her).
While I don't agree with the earlier post calling you a "retard", which is just uncalled for, I am re-evaluating my earlier assertion about the reasonableness of your debate; DC comics has been *officially* stating Diana as physically on par with Superman for over 10 years now. In what way do you think she isn't in that range? Now, is she as strong as Superman? No. And only WW fanbois think that. (And personally, I think Billy is marginally stronger than her, too, even though officially they are supposed to be equal, but anywho...). Is she as invulnerable/durable? No. But she is not *nearly* as far behind the curve as most people think, simply because they don't really follow her as a character.
(God, I am never getting to sleep, am I?)
Originally posted by quanchi112
She was trying to defend herself. He snapped it. She didn't offer him her wrist? Supes offered his face and freely took the shot.You can't even compare the two so please quit with this rather shaky comparison.
IT WASN'T STATED ORION WAS A PHYSICAL RIVAL. I don't twist facts on person to win people over to my side. his rage and his link to the astro force was described. That's why he can deal with Superman. I don't see him as strong as Superman nor do his showings support this.
I'm usually always right. Let this be a reminder, k.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Scangstas-DOTNG2-p18-1.jpg
Captain America lacks the power to deal with the Hulk while WW is close enough in terms of power to hurt these characters. She just isn't durable enough to take as many hits as they can dish out.
None of the characters will also be foolishly standing there looking for her like Superman was in issue 219.
No, Diana didn't "offer" her wrist -- she was trying to get close enough to entangle him in her lasso, so as to calm him rather than assault or kill him; strategically, if she had been fighting him as a mortal enemy, while aware of his power, she would not allow herself to be in that vulnerable position. *That* is what you are missing.
And once he did snap her wrist (which wasn't a casual thing, as he had already grabbed with force and malice in the previous panel without it breaking; he vented the pain of her blocking his blow then hitting him upside his jaw by crushing down on her wrist, which snapped... as it should, even if she had been a kryptonian, herself) she stopped holding back, dodged his attacks, and stunned him. And with the proper tactical thought of a friend/someone not wanting to harm/kill her friend, she didn't persue the assault, but took advantage of the moment to return back to deal with the *real* problem in the situation...
You *totally* missed the point of the entire battle.
Originally posted by tideoftimeShe was still hiding from Superman and couldn't take him on directly. If it wasn't for re entry who knows if she would have woken up. She cut Clark's throat after he caught up with her. Fleeing the scene isn't a viable tactic on this board.
Right. Superman *wasn't* in his right state of mind: he was assaulting her in a manner more aggressive and over-the-top than he almost ever demonstrates, ever. He wasn't holding back anything, and was fighting to the death (in his mind). Diana *was* holding back, until it became obvious that doing so would be fatal. And Diana's use of her tiara/bracers is not a "cheap" shot, in any way, shape or form; it's one of her signature maneuvers (using the bracelets to enhance the effect of her blunt attacks, or her tiara as a lethal attack, as she has slain gods with her god-weopons -- Deimos being the first, and even Hermes' was nearly decapitated by her).While I don't agree with the earlier post calling you a "retard", which is just uncalled for, I am re-evaluating my earlier assertion about the reasonableness of your debate; DC comics has been *officially* stating Diana as physically on par with Superman for over 10 years now. In what way do you think she isn't in that range? Now, is she as strong as Superman? No. And only WW fanbois think that. (And personally, I think Billy is marginally stronger than her, too, even though officially they are supposed to be equal, but anywho...). Is she as invulnerable/durable? No. But she is not *nearly* as far behind the curve as most people think, simply because they don't really follow her as a character.
(God, I am never getting to sleep, am I?)
I see WW very closely behind Superman/Marvel, etc. But she still wouldn't be in their class and if she doesn't fight a near perfect fight she loses.
Originally posted by ZeuodinNo, you are wrong. Supes was described as his rival not Orion. You were wrong.
Do you know how terrible of a debator you are? Orion gets his God powers from the Astro force. His astro force is what gives him his strength. My god you are terrible. You are not only not right, I've severly beaten you. You have no rebuttle against how Diana Stood up to Konvict using No skills, no speed, and no bracers. She literally stood there and traded blows with him in armored form. You have no rebuttle against her standing there trading blows with the Superman Doomsday merger and yet she was holding back then. You have no rebuttle to the fact that Oblivion knocked Superman out while they were fighting but he couldn't even sucker punch wonder woman. She literally was talking to him and he hit her out of the blue. Much like Konvict did superman. And yet Wonder Woman was unphased while Superman was Ko'd fighting oblivion. I have literally beaten the crap out of you in this debate. Your opinions don't count. you don't rebut what you cannot deal with. you skip over it. You try and go around. Orion is on Panel trading blows with Superman and you are saying he's using the Astro force? LOL. Of course it is what gives him his strenght. DS description of Orion doesn't have anything to do with the fight on panel. And if anything it only solidifies Orion as Superman's equal. DS is saying That Superman is his peer while Orion is the one on page stalemating Superman with nothing but hand to hand combat. You are not a good debator at all. I'm sorry.
Moving on. Orion's rage and his powers make him a virtual equal with Supes, but if Supes cut loose and they had it out he'd be the last man standing. His feats and even his battles with Darkseid show Orion up.
Orion was also held as a reserve against a very paranoid Superman. They said holding him in surprise at that critical juncture was their best bet. If they were equals they wouldn't have to wait until Supes was already fighting everyone else would they? Nope.
WW got her wrist snapped and was temporarily ko'd. If Supes hits her as hard as he can the fight won't last long. Same thing for any of these other characters. The only reason Supes struggled to do so was because she was hiding and he was seething with rage.
Orion can trade blows with Superman, but he will need to rely on his astro force to stand a chance. Supes is a physical rival to Ds in Ds's own words not Orion.
I'm a great debater. It's spelled with an e not an o by the way.
You're being rediculous.
Originally posted by quanchi112actually you are a terrible debater and everything you said was aweful. let me explain. Orion's Rage is calmed by his mother box. So your reasoning of why he can stand toe to toe with supers falls flat on it's ass. I can be enraged all I want but that doesn't make me be able to stand up to bruce lee. Also Orion didn't use his Astro force. DS was decribing Orion. He wasn't taking about the fight that was happening. What don't you get about that? Also, Superman/Doomsday merger was stronger than superman and he hit her many times and she didn't get ko'd. The only reason she got ko'd is because she wasn't fighting superman and he was sun amped. Why won't you admit that? How the hell was she hiding from Superman in the middle of space? That is almost 1st graderish in it's entirety. Oh and if you didn't know, in a forum fight, Wonder Woman's wrist would have healed instantly because she can bond to the earth and repair wounds.
She was still hiding from Superman and couldn't take him on directly. If it wasn't for re entry who knows if she would have woken up. She cut Clark's throat after he caught up with her. Fleeing the scene isn't a viable tactic on this board.I see WW very closely behind Superman/Marvel, etc. But she still wouldn't be in their class and if she doesn't fight a near perfect fight she loses.
No, you are wrong. Supes was described as his rival not Orion. You were wrong.
Moving on. Orion's rage and his powers make him a virtual equal with Supes, but if Supes cut loose and they had it out he'd be the last man standing. His feats and even his battles with Darkseid show Orion up.
Orion was also held as a reserve against a very paranoid Superman. They said holding him in surprise at that critical juncture was their best bet. If they were equals they wouldn't have to wait until Supes was already fighting everyone else would they? Nope.
WW got her wrist snapped and was temporarily ko'd. If Supes hits her as hard as he can the fight won't last long. Same thing for any of these other characters. The only reason Supes struggled to do so was because she was hiding and he was seething with rage.
Orion can trade blows with Superman, but he will need to rely on his astro force to stand a chance. Supes is a physical rival to Ds in Ds's own words not Orion.
I'm a great debater. It's spelled with an e not an o by the way.
You're being rediculous.
Originally posted by ZeuodinHe was describing what both characters can bring to the table. With Orion io's rage and the astro force while with Superman he's an absolute physical powerhouse. I got it. Why didn't you?
actually you are a terrible debater and everything you said was aweful. let me explain. Orion's Rage is calmed by his mother box. So your reasoning of why he can stand toe to toe with supers falls flat on it's ass. I can be enraged all I want but that doesn't make me be able to stand up to bruce lee. Also Orion didn't use his Astro force. DS was decribing Orion. He wasn't taking about the fight that was happening. What don't you get about that? Also, Superman/Doomsday merger was stronger than superman and he hit her many times and she didn't get ko'd. The only reason she got ko'd is because she wasn't fighting superman and he was sun amped. Why won't you admit that? How the hell was she hiding from Superman in the middle of space? That is almost 1st graderish in it's entirety. Oh and if you didn't know, in a forum fight, Wonder Woman's wrist would have healed instantly because she can bond to the earth and repair wounds.
She was ko'd. Re entry woke her up. She hid from Superman later after her wrist was snapped.
She actually says he's so strong. 😂 The girl can't take too many punches from Superman and don't forget to mention the part about her getting out k-nite.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WonderWomanv221912.jpg
She gets a free cheapshot and then holds back, barely.
Who says she is fighting on the earth for one.
Durability wise, I think she is the last of the four. Actually just a tad if any. That is not to say she can't trade blows with a top tier. She is last not by much. I think a big reason Wondy usually has showings of taking blows from top tiers stems from the fact that she is a superior combatant when compared to many of her oponents. I'm guessing it's understood by many that she can "roll" with the punches as to not absorb them in their full strength. Now if she just flat out trades blows like Superman for example (Supes just loves to try and walk through all punches) she probably can't stand up to the three in a flat out blow for blow.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He was describing what both characters can bring to the table. With Orion io's rage and the astro force while with Superman he's an absolute physical powerhouse. I got it. Why didn't you?She was ko'd. Re entry woke her up. She hid from Superman later after her wrist was snapped.
She actually says he's so strong. 😂 The girl can't take too many punches from Superman and don't forget to mention the part about her getting out k-nite.
She gets a free cheapshot and then hold back, [B]barely.
Who says she is fighting on the earth for one. [/B]
She does say he is so strong. So this is what Superman has to say about Wonder woman. since we are taking what characters say into account.
He says they are even in power
http://img79.imageshack.us/i/jla96196qa.jpg/
Here she trades blows with Superman
http://img74.imageshack.us/i/jla96188xe.jpg/
In wonder woman 174 superman says Diana and Captain marvel punch the same. Should I keep going or are you embarrassed enough yet?
Originally posted by quanchi112
She was still hiding from Superman and couldn't take him on directly. If it wasn't for re entry who knows if she would have woken up. She cut Clark's throat after he caught up with her. Fleeing the scene isn't a viable tactic on this board.I see WW very closely behind Superman/Marvel, etc. But she still wouldn't be in their class and if she doesn't fight a near perfect fight she loses.
No, you are wrong. Supes was described as his rival not Orion. You were wrong.
Moving on. Orion's rage and his powers make him a virtual equal with Supes, but if Supes cut loose and they had it out he'd be the last man standing. His feats and even his battles with Darkseid show Orion up.
Orion was also held as a reserve against a very paranoid Superman. They said holding him in surprise at that critical juncture was their best bet. If they were equals they wouldn't have to wait until Supes was already fighting everyone else would they? Nope.
WW got her wrist snapped and was temporarily ko'd. If Supes hits her as hard as he can the fight won't last long. Same thing for any of these other characters. The only reason Supes struggled to do so was because she was hiding and he was seething with rage.
Orion can trade blows with Superman, but he will need to rely on his astro force to stand a chance. Supes is a physical rival to Ds in Ds's own words not Orion.
I'm a great debater. It's spelled with an e not an o by the way.
You're being rediculous.
HIDING?
What the f#ck are you talking about?
She moved out of sight while he was about to attack, and got him from behind -- all that took place in "bullet time", from our mortal POV, as it would take no time for him to track her heart beat, which means it took only a second or so for that to occur. That it was displayed over a few panels was for story/presentation reasons. And before you even think about debating that, remember that the entire encounter, from his pushing her out of where Lord was, to her returning back to Lord, took place in 1 minute, 53 seconds (as per Lord relating that from Brother Eye's tracking them). Also, once Diana had Clark stunned, she could have immobilized or killed him with her weopons, but that wasn't her goal at that point, as she didn't want to kill him and realized that unless she dealt with Lord, this wasn't going to end, and therefore went back to deal with him.
And as far as Diana dying in space, (or similar situation, for example), well DUH. Her being put through what Superman did was to demostrate how TOUGH she is, and what kind of beating she can take, which should have been a wake up call for more casual readers that "geez, Wonder Woman is a lot tougher than I ever remember Linda Carter being...", and not to drive home what weaknesses or circumstances she is still vulnerable to. I mean, seriously, we know she can't survive in space for any protracted period; that's like shoving a kryptonite pole up Clark's ass and saying "See -- he ain't all that tough"...
And Zeuodin is right: nothing of what you are saying is actually helping your debate. The Orion/Superman scan you brought up -- and your comments concerning it -- do show clearly that subtext and layering of a scene is pretty lost on you.
(Not attacking you, personally, or being mean... just I find your lack of perspective disturbing, as unlike most generic fanbois who just post crap left-right-and-center, you seem more potentially reasonable; that makes this flaw of perception all the more grating...)
Originally posted by celeyhyga17She stood up to konvict, and Oblivion. Both of whom Ko'd superman.
Durability wise, I think she is the last of the four. Actually just a tad if any. That is not to say she can't trade blows with a top tier. She is last not by much. I think a big reason Wondy usually has showings of taking blows from top tiers stems from the fact that she is a superior combatant when compared to many of her oponents. I'm guessing it's understood by many that she can "roll" with the punches as to not absorb them in their full strength. Now if she just flat out trades blows like Superman for example (Supes just loves to try and walk through all punches) she probably can't stand up to the three in a flat out blow for blow.
Originally posted by ZeuodinCM and Thor are a match for Superman physically to CM have matched SM in strength numerous times and have knocked him out. Plus CM is superfast and Thor is superfast when need be so how is Orion stronger just because he can match Superman. Team 1 for the win
A few corrections. Orion is the Strongest person in the fight. He's the exact physical match Of Superman. He's stale mated Superman a few times in hand to hand. And he can one shot Superman with his AF force. He can also amp his strength and punches with the Af without using his harness. He also is superfast as when he pretended to be Mister Miracle for awhile Using all of Miracles skill and acrobatics. And Diana Does have two energy attacks. One she calls a soul burn. She also has the Godwave which is some kind of energy and stats amp at the same time.
Originally posted by D-Block
CM and Thor are a match for Superman physically to CM have matched SM in strength numerous times and have knocked him out. Plus CM is superfast and Thor is superfast when need be so how is Orion stronger just because he can match Superman. Team 1 for the win
