Apologize for double posting but I have to address something that has been bugging me since I've read it. I've been able to ignore the nakama powers and obvious PIS for some time but could sombody please explain this:
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/248/4
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/248/16
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/248/18
Even though I just started to read Fairy Tail, I can't be the only one who thought there was something wrong with this. The explanation as to why it happened doesn't satisfy me either.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Apologize for double posting but I have to address something that has been bugging me since I've read it. I've been able to ignore the nakama powers and obvious PIS for some time but could sombody please explain this:Even though I just started to read Fairy Tail, I can't be the only one who thought there was something wrong with this. The explanation as to why it happened doesn't satisfy me either.
Ok, in spoiler blocks since we have some newbies in the thread at the moment:
Spoiler:
Hades was getting an external amp from his 'heart' that was what was making him so untouchable. It was gone, so he was suddenly vulnerable, he was a mortal mage who'd been through a lot of fighting again. At the same time, Ultear restored the Tree, and that allowed it to assist the FT squad (When Azuma was defeated, it stopped him from using it to suppress their powers, but only when it was restored could it resume it's original functions).Laxus had filled Natsu with his magic, so Natsu was able to use combination lightning-fire techniques, and the Tree had sent him some magic to use it.
Not 'he won because of nakama feelings,' but everything there had a direct A-to-B cause.
Most of the time, while there is feelings involved, there's also something directly involved in an amp, and that incident had multiple buffs and debuffs going on.
Originally posted by Q99
Ok, in spoiler blocks since we have some newbies in the thread at the moment:Spoiler:
Hades was getting an external amp from his 'heart' that was what was making him so untouchable. It was gone, so he was suddenly vulnerable, he was a mortal mage who'd been through a lot of fighting again. At the same time, Ultear restored the Tree, and that allowed it to assist the FT squad (When Azuma was defeated, it stopped him from using it to suppress their powers, but only when it was restored could it resume it's original functions).Laxus had filled Natsu with his magic, so Natsu was able to use combination lightning-fire techniques, and the Tree had sent him some magic to use it.
Not 'he won because of nakama feelings,' but everything there had a direct A-to-B cause.
Most of the time, while there is feelings involved, there's also something directly involved in an amp, and that incident had multiple buffs and debuffs going on.
Spoiler:
The removal of the 'heart' amp shouldn't have crippled Hades that badright? Cause that would men that his victory over Makarovwas due exclusively to the amp: meaning that he would've beaten Hades otherwise pretty handily.Everything made sense up until Natsu started to smack him around w/o magic once the 'heart' was gone. Though Natsu not rejecting the lightning fro Laxus was suprising: still tolerable though.
The last bit definitely had some nakama power backing it up though.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakkaSpoiler:
The removal of the 'heart' amp shouldn't have crippled Hades that badright? Cause that would men that his victory over Makarovwas due exclusively to the amp: meaning that he would've beaten Hades otherwise pretty handily.
Spoiler:
I'm not sure how you got that conclusion, he brought out way more abilities against the crew than he did against Makarov.Keep in mind just how much stuff Hades just took and how much fighting he did! The Natsu-Laxus's full power blast (Laxus's full power all in one attack!) after mixing it up with Laxus, numerous combined attacks, making all those demon things, etc. etc.. That's the amp stuff, the insane endurance plus the eye of the abyss, but he's still got chains, bullets, grimoire law, and his other spells on his own.
There was a gigantic amount of damage he was able to ignore thanks to the Heart. When Makarov was taken down by Hades, it was by a lot less damage than Hades had been tanking in the battle. And amp stuff aside, he did hold the upper hand in simple back-and-forth spell usage against Makarov as well.
He's someone of Makarov's general level but more experienced before amp, plus the amps make him much harder to hurt, have a ton of hitpoints when he is hurt, not get tired using tons of spells, and gave him the Eye of the Abyss for an extra powerful final form/life-creation powers. Hades with amp, I would say, is the single most powerful mage we've seen in action by a solid measure.
Spoiler:
The last bit definitely had some nakama power backing it up though.
Spoiler:
It had specific power sources and drains for everything happening, is the point. If you mean Nakama in terms of 'done by the power of heart and belief of his friends,' I'll have to disagree.Ultear, Happy, Charlie, and Lily take credit for this one.
Originally posted by Q99Spoiler:
I'm not sure how you got that conclusion, he brought out way more abilities against the crew than he did against Makarov.Keep in mind just how much stuff Hades just took and how much fighting he did! The Natsu-Laxus's full power blast (Laxus's full power all in one attack!) after mixing it up with Laxus, numerous combined attacks, making all those demon things, etc. etc.. That's the amp stuff, the insane endurance plus the eye of the abyss, but he's still got chains, bullets, grimoire law, and his other spells on his own.
There was a gigantic amount of damage he was able to ignore thanks to the Heart. When Makarov was taken down by Hades, it was by a lot less damage than Hades had been tanking in the battle. And amp stuff aside, he did hold the upper hand in simple back-and-forth spell usage against Makarov as well.
He's someone of Makarov's general level but more experienced before amp, plus the amps make him much harder to hurt, have a ton of hitpoints when he is hurt, not get tired using tons of spells, and gave him the Eye of the Abyss for an extra powerful final form/life-creation powers. Hades with amp, I would say, is the single most powerful mage we've seen in action by a solid measure.
[/B]
Spoiler:
I came tot hat conclusion because I though Makarov was supposed to be more powerful than both Laxus and Natus via powerscaling and Hades seem to have a much harder time against the combo attacks from those two. On top of that the tree wasn't fueling their powers up until Ultear restored it.That's another thing I don't get. Hades use, what is presumed to be his full power against the Fairy Tale group yet he was able to seriously wound Makarov with less trouble. Not saying that the combo attacks weren't powerful but that I would have thought Hades should've shrugged them off, especially with the eye.
The dude becoming mortal after the 'heart' amp was destroyed was understandable but what I don't get is how Hades was weakend to the point Natsu could beat him up with his bare hand. All the other stuff preceeding Natsu beating him up is understandable for the most part. Considering Hades is supposed to be Makarov's elder, it just threw me off.
Originally posted by Q99Spoiler:[/B]
It had specific power sources and drains for everything happening, is the point. If you mean Nakama in terms of 'done by the power of heart and belief of his friends,' I'll have to disagree.Ultear, Happy, Charlie, and Lily take credit for this one.
Spoiler:
I'm still talking about the combo punch to the face...,or headbut I forget, that happened prior to the 'heart' amp being destroyed and Ultear restoring the tree.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakkaSpoiler:
I came tot hat conclusion because I though Makarov was supposed to be more powerful than both Laxus and Natus via powerscaling and Hades seem to have a much harder time against the combo attacks from those two. On top of that the tree wasn't fueling their powers up until Ultear restored it.That's another thing I don't get. Hades use, what is presumed to be his full power against the Fairy Tale group yet he was able to seriously wound Makarov with less trouble. Not saying that the combo attacks weren't powerful but that I would have thought Hades should've shrugged them off, especially with the eye.
The dude becoming mortal after the 'heart' amp was destroyed was understandable but what I don't get is how Hades was weakend to the point Natsu could beat him up with his bare hand. All the other stuff preceeding Natsu beating him up is understandable for the most part. Considering Hades is supposed to be Makarov's elder, it just threw me off.
Spoiler:
Makarov is probably stronger than Laxus and Natsu- but not Laxus, Natsu, Erza, Gray, Lucy, and Wendy combined. Not to mention, Laxus and Natsu working together on an uber attack like that would certainly cause Makarov a whole lot of hurt. Actually, even though Makarov could likely beat those two, I'd probably bet on the lightning/fire beam taking him out. It is the single biggest attack we've seen in Fairy Tail and it had *all* of Laxus's magic.Hades was pretty much shrugging them off- but that doesn't mean they didn't have any effect, he was getting more beat up, he could just ignore the effects thanks to all the magic. Tanking them didn't mean they did nothing.
The first punch was probably more shocking than raw damaging, but the tree boost was kicking in about then, and a bunch of those followed by one of his big finishing movies in lightning mode did it.
Honestly I'm not entirely seeing where you have a problem.
Hades was in a really high-powered fight and took many hits including the giant lightning-fire beam. This accumulated damage, but thanks to amps, he could compensate. He then lose the amps, meaning he was now as beat up as he really was, giving Natsu the power for some HtH that could have an effect. And the raw shock value of it suddenly working at all probably helped too. It wouldn't have been enough if it hadn't been followed by treeboost and his strongest melee dragonslayer magic attack, which was enough to put things over the top.
Spoiler:
I'm still talking about the combo punch to the face...,or headbut I forget, that happened prior to the 'heart' amp being destroyed and Ultear restoring the tree.
Spoiler:
Yea, the punches and combo onto a guy who's been through a ton of fighting and is no longer magically hyped to ignore it.
Originally posted by Q99Berserk kept me reading and interested almost immediately though. As did Vinland Saga.
Most series take time to get good. I don't feel One Piece hit it's stride until Arlong, or Don Krieg at best either, so if someone says, "Ugh, this story with the liar kid is pretty boring, can't they speed things up?" I will say, "Keep at it. It really hits it's stride with the fishman arc," (and yes, I did find the Usopp intro story took too long and was fairly weak).I'd still say FT or OP is enjoyable before that, but what makes the best of any series the best is you've gotten to know the characters and what's normal for them before it ramps things up.
Any series you start with people you don't have an attachment to yet. It's easy to forget that when you're used to reading series you're 20-30-40 volumes in on.
Granted, it is perhaps unfair to hold a mere shounen to the standards of two of the best Seinen manga of all time. 131
Originally posted by Q99Spoiler:
The first punch was probably more shocking than raw damaging, but the tree boost was kicking in about then, and a bunch of those followed by one of his big finishing movies in lightning mode did it.Honestly I'm not entirely seeing where you have a problem.
Hades was in a really high-powered fight and took many hits including the giant lightning-fire beam. This accumulated damage, but thanks to amps, he could compensate. He then lose the amps, meaning he was now as beat up as he really was, giving Natsu the power for some HtH that could have an effect. And the raw shock value of it suddenly working at all probably helped too. It wouldn't have been enough if it hadn't been followed by treeboost and his strongest melee dragonslayer magic attack, which was enough to put things over the top.
Spoiler:
[/B][spoiler] I only really had a problem with Natsu beating up Hades. Though if the eye wasn't a reset button then I guess that would make all of the above make sense: mortal and wounded master mage is more plausable than just mortal mage w/o an amp.
Would've honestly though that Makarov would've had something to match the lightning/dragon blast other than "Fairy Law" but that has yet to be seen.
Oh and I'm on the Grand Magic Tournament now. Only 20 chaptes to go before I'm caught up.
Edit I also have another question:
Spoiler:
Did I miss something or was the Gajeel double-agent thing just glossed over? Unless something happened in the Nirvana arc or the Edoas arc I can't remember Gajeel's double agent thing going any further than when Makarov mentioned it. Though I don't really think it's important but I just wanted that issue cleared up.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Berserk kept me reading and interested almost immediately though. As did Vinland Saga.Granted, it is perhaps unfair to hold a mere shounen to the standards of two of the best Seinen manga of all time. 131 [/B]
But you still read Negima which had a shit-ton of fluff chapters.
Which reminds me, I still have to read Vinland Saga.
Originally posted by Astner
Well since Naruto is ending I'll have to get into Fairy Tail. Besides, I have the entire summer on me. I'll start off with the anime, avoid the filler episodes, and then jump onto the manga.
I mean. Naruto was amazing in the beginning. It got bad, but when it did it still had established a pretty interesting world. Bleach was amazing around the Soul society arc as well, and it established a number of interesting characters with interesting abilities and battle strategies.
But what does Fairy tail have?
Originally posted by Astner
I can't get into it. I've tried for hours but it doesn't work. What do you people see in this series?I mean. Naruto was amazing in the beginning. It got bad, but when it did it still had established a pretty interesting world. Bleach was amazing around the Soul society arc as well, and it established a number of interesting characters with interesting abilities and battle strategies.
But what does Fairy tail have?
Boobs and Dragonborne....but mostly boobs. Heck even though I'm almost caught up I still find myself staring at either Erza or Lucy's rack when reading.
They have some cool fight though admittedly there not as awesome as the top fights in One Piece.
Yeah it get better from the Assasin's guild ploy. Seriously Aura you have to get to Erza's evil ex's
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Boobs and Dragonborne....but mostly boobs. Heck even though I'm almost caught up I still find myself staring at either Erza or Lucy's rack when reading.
lol!
*epic fist bump*
I am reading a new manga called "Sun Ken Rock". It's got absurd amounts of fanservice and it gets as close as possible, at times, to be h*nt*i (I'm at work, deal with my censoring!) without crossing the line. It is over-the-top.
Originally posted by dadudemon
lol!*epic fist bump*
I am reading a new manga called "Sun Ken Rock". It's got absurd amounts of fanservice and it gets as close as possible, at times, to be h*nt*i (I'm at work, deal with my censoring!) without crossing the line. It is over-the-top.
*returned*
Seriously...I can't tell if I should be impressed by Erza's awesome fight or just stare at her awesome bewbs. Lucy's so shameless it's ridiculous. Oh and an additional 10 percent goes to the other girls with boobies.
I'm tempted to look it up though I'm trying to get back into HSDK. If it's anything like that then I might be a tad discouraged from reading it: or super pumped to find out what it is.
Edit: WFT ?!
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/279/10
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/279/11
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/279/13
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I'm tempted to look it up though I'm trying to get back into HSDK. If it's anything like that then I might be a tad discouraged from reading it: or super pumped to find out what it is.
It's much worse than HSDK. It is mature rated: seinen.
Some of the humor is pretty good. Like..you really will laugh out loud. It took me 4 days to read the whole thing and catch up to it all. Some of the plots are brain scratchingly complex (but not incoherent).