Spitfire vs Sabretooth

Originally posted by Juk3n
so shall we go backto unravelling the Spitfire wins argument?
Raise your hand if you think Spitfire wins 7-8/10, good now please account for how Sabretooth wins his 2-3/10. Part of being a good debater is to see things from both sides, if Spitfires Speed and strength coupled is such a great threat..how do you account for the wins YOU give Sabretooth?

Iduntgetit 😕

The obvious dodge is to comeback with "in that case i go back onmy previous statement and say spitfire stomps 10/10"

in which case your credibility is gone and we get to lol at your flapping as you realize your reluctance to side with anyone in a wolverine/weapon x camp, no matter how reasonable their argument..So back to the top of my post, any adults in the spitfire camp care to share?

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
and by you arguing my posting of 8/10
you implying sabertooth would stomp

ive done nothing but ask you to elaborate on the 2/10 you gave sabretooth. You belive he has a shot at winning yes? ok, How?

sabertooth is obviously durable as hell but if spitfire keeps up with a speed blitz his HF and durability would eventually give out how is this so hard to understand... and also people quit assuming i dont like wolverine/ weapon X fans its just that when sabertooth and wolverine are matched up with a opponent above or at his power status you guys just automatically jump to their HF...even when their opponents have regenerated their hand in a few panels...i push the HF aside... then they jump to their "durability" even when they've been shown to get dropped by a blow to the head...i gave 8/10 because its just a question of who's HF gives out 1st and I say sabertooths because of spitfires speed will quickly wear sabertooths HF down minus the CIS/PIS and she's got a victory... and before someone says well all sabertooth needs to do is get a hold of her... SHE ALSO POSSESES A HF AND DURABILITY... only thing he has over her is strength... is strength a instant win card or something?

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
sabertooth is obviously durable as hell but if spitfire keeps up with a speed blitz his HF and durability would eventually give out how is this so hard to understand...

ok so we're making waves here lets keep i up, "if spitfire keeps up with the speed blitz" you say, thats good, BUT then we have to ask, the longer the fight goes on, means the less variation in attacktactics Spitfire will display right? There's only so many ways she can blitz past Sabretooth and leave a glancing wound (that will more or less heal on impact) right? And if she hangs about to try and combo to ko she gives him more of an opening to get a hold of her right? So her main tactic should be hit and run right?

OK, So with Sabretooths abundant record for catching people off guard once they have let themselves get into a comfortable attack pattern, it's quite logical to assume that once spitfire gets comfortable in assuming "he cant hit me if i keep attacking like this" he will be thinking "a few more attacks like that and i'll have her by suprise", Thus a lengthy battle giving him more breathing space and time to retaliate no?

Sound too farfetched?

which is why i gave a 8/10 + the durability giving out 1st

also if spitfire gets caught during her speed blitz why cant she recover start again

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
also if spitfire gets caught during her speed blitz why cant she recover start again

you mean start attacking a MASTER of counter offensive with an attack pattern that just got you a lil' beat down? Besides the obvious 'because he'll now know how to deal with it'?

His durability is above hers, his healing factor is above hers, his combat prowess is above hers, his resillience is above hers, pain tolerance too. How many ways can she rush him for a quick blow and then escape /rinse/repeat before he is KOed? I say it'd take a damn long time, and i think him getting a hold of her and ending the fight is more viable than him being glancing hitted to death.

excuse the grammar fart

so sabertooth is a master of counter attack why cant spitfire let sabertooth attack 1st and counter him with speed and fighting skills being she was trained by Cap...

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
so sabertooth is a master of counter attack why cant spitfire let sabertooth attack 1st and counter him with speed and fighting skills being she was trained by Cap...

Originally posted by juggernaut74
She can heal really fast but not sure if that's a good tactic.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
??? so only sabertooth can counter

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Just saying his hf is most likely better. Although she did heal a completely broken body in seconds.

If she wants to test her hf against his she may loose.

do you understand the term "counter attack" geez they're not just swinging at eachother like some muscle head who believes he can fight... counter could be taking a hit or actually timing they're attack or even connecting your strike before theirs

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
sabertooth is obviously durable as hell but if spitfire keeps up with a speed blitz his HF and durability would eventually give out how is this so hard to understand... and also people quit assuming i dont like wolverine/ weapon X fans its just that when sabertooth and wolverine are matched up with a opponent above or at his power status you guys just automatically jump to their HF...even when their opponents have regenerated their hand in a few panels...i push the HF aside... then they jump to their "durability" even when they've been shown to get dropped by a blow to the head...i gave 8/10 because its just a question of who's HF gives out 1st and I say sabertooths because of spitfires speed will quickly wear sabertooths HF down minus the CIS/PIS and she's got a victory... and before someone says well all sabertooth needs to do is get a hold of her... SHE ALSO POSSESES A HF AND DURABILITY... only thing he has over her is strength... is strength a instant win card or something?

*sigh*

I know I've told you this three times now, hell, I know OTHERS have told you this multiple times as well... but you REALLY need to direct yourself to the Sabretooth respect thread if you think the only real advantage Sabretooth is brining to this fight is his strength.

I don't think anyone really jumped to Sabretooth's HF as his saving grace in this thread, but since you insist on bringing it up amonst other things...

Okay...

Well first off it's nice that you think she has a durability level that matters in this thread.. She doesn't.
If you think so prove it.
Because I CAN prove Sabretooth's durability to be on a MUCH higher level than her ability to really do much damage with kicks, or punches.
You're underselling Sabres' durability by a maaaaassive margin to think that a guy who's taken grenade launchers to the face is going to be worse for wear from a few blows by Spitfire.
Alternatively can you even remotely show us some evidence of her durability mattering one ounce in this thread?

And if by chance you want to bring up her little itty bitty claws, that's fine, because THAT'S when the healing factor'll get brought into the debate. It's really the only thing Sabretooth would need it for, and there too is an area that Spitfire is one upped by Creed yet again. She had her hand reduced to a skeleton and it sure as hell didn't take panels to heal, it took issues. Sabretooth on the other hand has been reduced to smoldering meat on a skeleton and healed in two panels from the damage, he's crash landed to earth in a landing from re-entry and got up in one panel.
Even her nice little broken neck feat is nothing he can't put to shame...
Wolverine got every bone in his skeleton ground to multi-fractions in a car wreck and was already healing and getting up as the car passed over him and Sabretooth heals faster than him.
Sabretooth? He's had his neck broken by a punch along with several other sets of bones and had healed by the time he hit the ground.

How about stamina? We know that Creed in a weaker incarnation could fight Wild Child for three days straight and it didn't put him out. Could she do more damage than Wild Child can in three days before being taken out? Hell we know for a fact that Wolverine in the course of a berserker rage can up his damage output to the equalivolant of a weeks worth of nonstop fighting compact in several short minutes.... Sabretooth not only encourages Wolverine into rages but he thinks it's a game. He calls it playtime.
How long can she last without blood (and probably taking severe amounts of injury) before it effects her performance?

Seriously, what remote proof do you have in this argument to suggest that she can even begin to outlast Creed in a bid for duration?

Fighting ability? Creed's managed to outskill Logan, Kitty Pride, Iron Fist, Spetznas super soldiers, and completely curbed a Shiva droid that had already downloaded and adapted to Wolverine's fighting skill. What skill level has she shown to display in combat that makes her worth noting? As it stands, Creed's a much more seasoned fighter with more impressive skills and a natural talent for figuring out his opponents abilities, and weaknesses.

Strength is nowhere near the ONLY advantage Creed has, it's just the most obvious one. But while we're talking about strength.... What happens if Sabretooth DOES get ahold of Spitfire and decides to start ripping off limbs?
Because that is a go-to tactic for old man Creed and he's done it to people with durability levels way higher than hers.

How does her strength even remotely matter in this fight?

My references to Hans and the Starbrand were washover comments that only support the most reasonable conclussion one would reach with these facts....

Seriously if you want to discuss "only advantages" in this thread, how about Spitfire and the only advantage she brings to the table here being her speed...

Because that's really all she's got.
And even then you're putting her up against someone with enhanced senses, reflexes, agility, and speed himself.
Even if you want to ignore the showing against Hans, blitzing him from across the rooftop or snatching mini Hans out of the air....
The guy's proven faster than Wolverine.... before upgrades.
He shocked and awed Iron Fist with his speed..... before upgrades (in fact he tore off Iron Fists disguise before Rand could lift a finger about it)
He blitzed Punisher while dodging Pun's automatic gunfire..... before upgrades.
He blitzed Daredevil before his radar picked Sabretooth up.... before upgrades.
He's snatched Parker out of the air.... before upgrades.
Was referenced as inhumanly fast against a suped up Spiderman Level Black Cat.... before upgrades.
blitzed 7 armed guards before even one of them could fire off a shot... before upgrades.
Blitzed Cyber from half a room away before Cyber could even pick up on his psy-signature (Cyber who has been referenced tripping up quicksilver).
So while he might not be as fast as she is, he's certainly able to deal out his fair share of speed and almost certainly better at using it in close quarters combat.

You're talking about a guy who's casually dodged around Cyclops' optic blasts while fighting other X-men, bounded around Holocaust's shots fired, and regularly blitzed other superhumans but somehow you think it's more likely that Spitfire will take Sabretooth out BEFORE he's able to catch/tag her?

I'll ask you one more time, please provide some proof to back up this claim.... Please?

Originally posted by jinzin
*sigh*

... but you REALLY need to direct yourself to the Sabretooth respect thread

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Don't forget the Wolverine and X-23 threads because their feats are usable for Creed. 😆

I wonder how blissful that kind of ignorance is..... must be heaven. You're a lucky man snoop.

Originally posted by jinzin
NO......
Having more skill doesn't somehow negate Wolverine's healing factor or Adamantium skeleton.

Thats your opinion and it doesn't matter how many examples I give if skilled opponents being able to bypass his HF you won't accept it. Like I said its impossible for you to be right all the time, but you don't see any problem with this. So basically your beef is that I don't agree with everything you say.

Originally posted by jinzin

SEE?! RIGHT HERE: instead of coming back with examples or proof or ANYTHING even resembling a half thought out logical argument what do you bring me?

Some grade school crapola about how "He's Dracula lord of the Vamps hes a badass". That answers so pathetic it doesn't even warrant a response.

Yeah but you want to cry about me and Srank... sweet. 🙄

Thank you for reinforcing my point you are ignoring relevant parts of my post and focusing on what you like.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok I'm gonna try one last time. He's Dracula lord of the Vamps hes a badass. He's held his own against Silver Surfer and owned Black Knight in two panels. Some powerful opponents or highly skilled opponents can do it.

I wasn't basing my argument soley on the fact that he was Lords of the Vamps I added feats to back it up. I shouldn't have to explain this.

Originally posted by Deadline
Thats your opinion

No it's not. It's a fact that's backed by basic knowledge of Wolverine's healing factor, in depth knowledge of his healing factor, logic, and multiple examples that prove you wrong.

Originally posted by Deadline
and it doesn't matter how many examples I give if skilled opponents being able to bypass his HF you won't accept it.

That's how you begin to make a basis for an argument... by collecting proof. Evidence is what allows for people to believe that Cap has superhuman durability, or a healing factor in spite of those never being listed as his attributes.

IF you brought proof to the table to support your claims that were legitimate examples of the points you're attempting to make AND that proof wasn't dwarfed by opposing evidence.. (for instance, if it was even a little more than HALF as frequent as it's opposition) then you would have a leg to stand on in debates like these and people like Srank or myself might begin to put more faith into the credability of your argumentation.

Originally posted by Deadline
Like I said its impossible for you to be right all the time,

Originally posted by Deadline
but you don't see any problem with this.

Originally posted by Deadline
So basically your beef is that I don't agree with everything you say.

...Even comes CLOSE to stating that I have a beef with you, or even addresses my opinion about you for that matter, nor does it make any suggestion about what you may or may not agree with in that statement. It's a short, blunt statement about Wolverine's healing factor.

That you think it has anything to do with you or even me personally, much less any beef only goes to prove how far gone into sheer delusion you've ventured with your vendetta.

Originally posted by Deadline
Thank you for reinforcing my point you are ignoring relevant parts of my post and focusing on what you like.

No, it's simply that what you think are relevant parts of your post... Are not.

They do not lend credence to your position.

I'll explain why below...

Originally posted by Deadline
I wasn't basing my argument soley on the fact that he was Lords of the Vamps I added feats to back it up. I shouldn't have to explain this.

Let's review... We were discussing this>>>>>>>>>
RIGHT NOW. By denying/refusing my position that Wolverine shouldn't go down to one claw swipe (Just recently looked through the book and it wasn't even that... it was a closed fist punch... my God Claremont) you're thereby taking up the position that such a showing is justified...

Okay? So....

Dracula "holding his own" with Silver Surfer was something which roughly equated to Dracula semi-uncharacteristically slapping Surfer in the face twice while he was mind controlled iirc, and turning to mist when Surfer tried to roast him....

Neither that example nor Dracula "taking out Black Knight in two panels" is actually a well thought-out argument that backs the position which I challenged you to support.

That position being that you seem to think it's fine for Wolverine to be rendered out cold from a single shot to the face.

No..... evidence to support that would be more examples of Wolverine getting WTK pwned unconcious by 1 straight shot to the face from a super strong character or less.

Giving me a very VERY short laundry list of who Dracula has done well against is not a sure-fire way to measure how Wolverine being hit once in the face and layed out was okay in your mind.

Anyone can do that... Wolverine's kicked half the ass of the marvel universe.. That fact alone doesn't dictate his ability to tank shots.... the fact that he's made a career out of tanking direct assaults from certified class 100's does.

LOL spitfire runs around sabertooth creating a cyclone depleting hus oxygen

why are you posting such long posts jinzin shorten it up and i'll read it
i'll simply talk about their powers

spitfire...
durability - has hardened skin + a HF so she has great durability
strength - she broke a titanium sword with her hands not sure how strong that would be in a comic but im guessing pretty strong
stamina - easily spitfire a speedsters powers would be useless without stamina
reflex - enhanced reflexes oh yea speedster reflexs

why on earth are you stating him dodging bullet fire... hellooooooooooo spitfire outruns bullets whats ur problem

he took a grenade launcher to the face... let me guess his HF kicked in after almost dying

you keep saying i underrate sabertooth but its not that i just see through the CIS/PIS that comes with heroes who have a HF
if hes so skilled why is he always almost dying... i mean seriously

Sabretooth durability was enhanced by his son...

his skin is tough and mostly immune to small arms fire.. he has also taken a rail gun blast to the chest with no damage to strengthen the upgrade he received at the hand of his son.

he then again was upgraded by the director in the weapon X program.

has Spitfire ever ran into a circle and created a vortex?

aside from that i see Sabe holding his breath his healing factor keeping him going the most likely response is that Sabe will go berserk due to lack of oxygen.