Originally posted by Weltall
The lightning channeling feat is also arguably one of his greatest displays of control as well as power. Being able to focus a planetary level of energy on a scale as small as his body is one of the greatest displays of control we've ever seen in the mythos, and arguably as great as the subatomic manipulation though it's hard to compare the two.
Since the quote was that Bane had made all of the subatomic alterations that were necessary for the creation of the holocron, it reads, to a sane person, like those alterations were NECESSARY FOR THE CREATION OF THE HOLOCRON. now, did other sith besides Bane make a holocron? Yes. they did. so they too, made the subatomic alterations that were NECESSARY FOR THE CREATION OF THE HOLOCRON.
Originally posted by ares834
It was a ****in ritual... I still don't see how this is so impressive.
Given that it wasn't a product of the ritual but rather a prerequisite, that it took place within the confines of a ritual is entirely irrelevant. Bane had to fully rely on his own personal prowess in the Force to absorb all of the lightning being generated from the other Sith Lords for the ritual to work. He also had to store the energy, whilst protecting himself internally, all under his own personal level of ability, as well as redirect the lightning with the vision and range that he did. The only component that was reliant on the nature of the ritual (organised procedure, and the other Sith Lords) was the magnitude of power that was stored, and the destruction it caused on the Ruusan landscape. Everything else was done under Bane's level of ability.
Still BANE MOVED DA MOON!!! And rode a pterodactyl through space...
Make fun of it all you want, just don't be mad when Bane turns you into a moon, and then proceeds to ride you through space. Just like he did the poor pterodactyl.
Originally posted by truejedi
Since the quote was that Bane had made all of the subatomic alterations that were necessary for the creation of the holocron, it reads, to a sane person, like those alterations were NECESSARY FOR THE CREATION OF THE HOLOCRON. now, did other sith besides Bane make a holocron? Yes. they did. so they too, made the subatomic alterations that were NECESSARY FOR THE CREATION OF THE HOLOCRON.
The only return on "subatomic" or "sub-atomic" or any such such you get through searching the document I linked to earlier in this thread:
He had made his first attempt five years before. Using Freedon Nadd's Holocron as a blueprint, he had re-created the intricate matrix of lattices and vertices that were the key to storing nearly infinite amounts of knowledge in a data system small enough to fit in the palm of a hand. It had taken months to gather and fashion the rare crystal into the filaments and fibers of the interlaced network, followed by weeks of delicate and painstaking adjustments. The matrix had to fall within highly exacting specifications, and Bane had spent hundreds of hours making thousands of precise, subatomic alterations through the power of the Force to ensure that each crystalline strand was properly in place.
Where exactly does it say that the subatomic alterations were absolutely necessary? All that's stated is that the "highly exacting specifications", which aren't defined, were necessary. The subatomic alterations were made as an assurance, an act that often goes beyond what is absolutely necessary so as to guarantee success. So again, where are they stated to be necessary? If it's in another source then be sure to mention which one.
What's most unforgivable about this is that, aside from Lightsnake, you're probably the person I've had this discussion with the most, and you speak about what's always been in question (whether the subatomic alterations were fundamentally necessary; a claim you've never managed to prove up on) as if it's commonly accepted knowledge! With ME of all people! Completely unforgivable. I will not forgive you for this truejedi. It is unforgivable.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
^agreed. Regardless, how would it help in a fight anyway? He focuses on moving a molecule while Exar slices his head off.
It's a demonstration of control, which effectively translates into how efficiently a force user would be at applying his full level of power on a relatively small scale, such as in a direct force battle between two humanoid opponents. Control dictates the proportion of your total level of power you will be able to apply on a small scale. Bane's demonstrated level of control is completely unprecedented, and he is the only character to have demonstrated a level of control even close; by all available evidence, he will be more likely able to apply a higher proportion of his total power in a small scale battle than any other character featured in the mythos.
Take Darth Nihilus as an example, he's demonstrated the power to drain entire planets, but without the required level of control to be able to efficiently focus that level of power into harming his opponent without harming himself in the process, that level of power is largely inconsequential.
With Bane, you have someone who's displayed a level of power in the planetary regions, with a demonstrated level of control that would enable him to effectively apply a large amount of that power on a small scale in a one on one battle. There's no other character, with the exceptions of Luke Skywalker and Kyp Durron, who have displayed such high levels of controlled power.
Originally posted by Weltall
The only return on "subatomic" or "sub-atomic" or any such such you get through searching the document I linked to earlier in this thread:The matrix had to fall within highly exacting specifications, and Bane had spent hundreds of hours making thousands of precise, subatomic alterations through the power of the Force to ensure that each crystalline strand was properly in place.
Where exactly does it say that the subatomic alterations were absolutely necessary? All that's stated is that the "highly exacting specifications", which aren't defined, were necessary. The subatomic alterations were made as an assurance, an act that often goes beyond what is absolutely necessary so as to guarantee success. So again, where are they stated to be necessary? If it's in another source then be sure to mention which one.
Thanks for the quote though, I was paraphrasing above. Been several years since i read the book, but your quote actually, I believe, helps me more than it did you.
What's most unforgivable about this is that, aside from Lightsnake, you're probably the person I've had this discussion with the most, and you speak about what's always been in question (whether the subatomic alterations were fundamentally necessary; a claim you've never managed to prove up on) as if it's commonly accepted knowledge! With ME of all people! Completely unforgivable. I will not forgive you for this truejedi. It is unforgivable. [/B]
yes, and we have never agreed. I maintain that i have been right all along, and continue to be so.
U know though, you don't show the same amount of belligerence that you used to. You ARE wrong, and a fanboy, but its hardly a crime, and we certainly have a fair number of members here who are frequently guilty of both.
I assume you have grown up a bit as well (happens to people) and I would actually not a problem with you staying on as an actual member instead of a sock that is repeatedly banned.
Not that my vote counts for much with the mods, but I'll throw it out there. Its not like we have an unlimited number of members, and we certainly never have debate anymore, so what would it hurt? (past grievances aside...)
Originally posted by Weltall
It's a demonstration of control, which effectively translates into how efficiently a force user would be at applying his full level of power on a relatively small scale, such as in a direct force battle between two humanoid opponents. Control dictates the proportion of your total level of power you will be able to apply on a small scale. Bane's demonstrated level of control is completely unprecedented, and he is the only character to have demonstrated a level of control even close; by all available evidence, he will be more likely able to apply a higher proportion of his total power in a small scale battle than any other character featured in the mythos.
That has nothing to do with efficiency. The subatomic scale has absolutely no connection to a battle between to people. This is just a bad argument.
Originally posted by Weltall
Take Darth Nihilus as an example, he's demonstrated the power to drain entire planets, but without the required level of control to be able to efficiently focus that level of power into harming his opponent without harming himself in the process, that level of power is largely inconsequential.
That only happened because he was fighting the Exile. Against anyone else he would have had no problem. He was able to use his powers against EACH INDIVIDUAL Jedi when he decimated the Order. The fact that he did it to hundreds in succession is only more evidence that he could do it to a single person.
Originally posted by Weltall
With Bane, you have someone who's displayed a level of power in the planetary regions, with a demonstrated level of control that would enable him to effectively apply a large amount of that power on a small scale in a one on one battle. There's no other character, with the exceptions of Luke Skywalker and Kyp Durron, who have displayed such high levels of controlled power.
Control on the sub-atomic level is absolutely worthless in a fight. The scale difference between controlling the minuscule amount of power necessary to move atoms and the power necessary to be use able in an actual fight is so great that no comparison should be made.
Furthermore, Zannah, who has not shown herself to be anywhere near as powerful as the Bane you're fantasizing about, what effectively a match for him during their final battle. It's entirely possible that she won their duel after he attempted to transfer his life essence and that she just absorbed some of his traits. If it had been Bane, why would he have lied afterwards?
Without that technique, Zannah without a doubt defeated Bane. Could you argue she is more powerful than Exar?