Originally posted by Original Smurph
As far as judging goes, is the team that the judge determines to have won based on the sum of the points, or just the judge's opinion?
Nor did I expect both teams to get a 9/10 in debating skills....
Originally posted by Kris BlazeThat's right, you and mungi were only so-so...
Khan advertised it as the judges opinion, but offered the three-split bit as a guide. I did not expect him to actually put it into points though.Nor did I expect both teams to get a 9/10 in debating skills....
ermmha
No, but srsly. You still GOT the vote.
Anyways, good to know that it's judges opinion. To be honest, I didn't expect originality to factor in that much, but I like that it helps encourage creativity.
I like that the points are included, so long as the end result is still decided solely by the judge, and not the breakdown. It offers elaboration in areas that might not get normally touched on by a judge's write up.
Originally posted by Original Smurphthe points/decision should generally coincide...I doubt a losing team would end up with more points (the judge would prob manipulate the points so that it coincides with his decision)
That's right, you and mungi were only so-so...ermmha
No, but srsly. You still GOT the vote.
Anyways, good to know that it's judges opinion. To be honest, I didn't expect originality to factor in that much, but I like that it helps encourage creativity.
I like that the points are included, so long as the end result is still decided solely by the judge, and not the breakdown. It offers elaboration in areas that might not get normally touched on by a judge's write up.
Originally posted by Original Smurph
That's right, you and mungi were only so-so...ermmha
No, but srsly. You still GOT the vote.
Anyways, good to know that it's judges opinion. To be honest, I didn't expect originality to factor in that much, but I like that it helps encourage creativity.
I like that the points are included, so long as the end result is still decided solely by the judge, and not the breakdown. It offers elaboration in areas that might not get normally touched on by a judge's write up.
I'm glad that Khan gave us his vote, but was flattered by his score. In my mind, it was a much more clear cut on originality and believability. From the recap, I considered us to do bottom in originality, but far better in feasibility. Regardless, we're always glad to have a vote 🙂
Originally posted by Starscream MMeh... I don't see why not.
the points/decision should generally coincide...I doubt a losing team would end up with more points (the judge would prob manipulate the points so that it coincides with his decision)
Team A could get 5 Originality points, 0 Effectiveness points and 9 Debate points
If Team B gets 0 Originality, 4 Effectiveness and 9 Debate, they'll come out to less points but should still win if they're that much more effective, even if the idea is unoriginal.
Originally posted by Original Smurpha team that has 0 effectiveness would not get 9 debate points lol
Meh... I don't see why not.Team A could get 5 Originality points, 0 Effectiveness points and 9 Debate points
If Team B gets 0 Originality, 4 Effectiveness and 9 Debate, they'll come out to less points but should still win if they're that much more effective, even if the idea is unoriginal.
Originally posted by Starscream MWhy not?
a team that has 0 effectiveness would not get 9 debate points lol
I'm sure Jinzin could put up a really good debate for why Wolverine should stalemate, say, Hulk.
I'd give him lots of debate points, but probably still a 0 in effectiveness.
Regardless though, I was just making up numbers. Change the 9's to 5's, the point remains.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Khan advertised it as the judges opinion, but offered the three-split bit as a guide. I did not expect him to actually put it into points though.
That's about it. The points are just meant to be a rough guide for the judges and a means to give the teams some (hopefully) useful feedback. If a match ends in a tie we'll use point totals to determine a winner.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Nor did I expect both teams to get a 9/10 in debating skills....
It sucks going first in a tourney, but both teams were civil, responsive, and creative in their arguments. It was a good way to start everything off. Can't really ask for more given the undesirable position both teams were in. 👆
Originally posted by Original Smurphwell, debate points would be garnered based on how persuasive one's argument is ...at least from my point of view
Why not?I'm sure Jinzin could put up a really good debate for why Wolverine should stalemate, say, Hulk.
I'd give him lots of debate points, but probably still a 0 in effectiveness.
Regardless though, I was just making up numbers. Change the 9's to 5's, the point remains.
I would give debate points based on clarity of thought, persuasiveness, and how on point it is. Hard to see me giving debate points to an argument I find unconvincing (as that would mean the person didn't really support his arguments well).
Originally posted by Starscream MI just maintain that it's possible for one team to debate their heart out, and do it well, but still clearly have a losing case.
well, debate points would be garnered based on how persuasive one's argument is ...at least from my point of viewI would give debate points based on clarity of thought, persuasiveness, and how on point it is. Hard to see me giving debate points to an argument I find unconvincing (as that would mean the person didn't really support his arguments well).
Just look at the Kris/Charlotte match- Charlotte's team was given a 9/10 in debating, but a 1/5 in effectiveness.
Originally posted by Original SmurphI see your point. I'm a little confused on how a team gets great debating score but low effectiveness, but that's up to the individual judge.
I just maintain that it's possible for one team to debate their heart out, and do it well, but still clearly have a losing case.Just look at the Kris/Charlotte match- Charlotte's team was given a 9/10 in debating, but a 1/5 in effectiveness.
But I do think my point stands, that an individual judge will manipulate his scores to match with their decision...so I don't think we will see a team losing even though garnering a higher total score.
Dear Jesus/Allah/Vishnu/Buddha help me.
Look, I know a judge can screw around with the numbers if they want and give the losing team more than the team they have winning a match. But lets all just hope no one is in quite that dickish a mood when they make a decision.
Obviously, debating is the most important part of a tournament match, but some credit should also be given to teams who come up with original but effective strategies. That's all the points were meant to reflect.
Originally posted by TheKahnWhy so serious?
Dear Jesus/Allah/Vishnu/Buddha help me.
We're chill. Just chatting.
Originally posted by TheKahnYeah. I like the system. It's more thorough, and forces a good analysis of each team's strategy and debating, rather than just a "Team X wins, because they were better" type of response.
Obviously, debating is the most important part of a tournament match, but some credit should also be given to teams who come up with original but effective strategies. That's all the points were meant to reflect.
We're just musing. No worries.
Originally posted by Original SmurphI like the scoring system too. I've always felt that with debators putting so much into it, they deserve some detailed feedback and not just a 2 sentence afterthought.
Yeah. I like the system. It's more thorough, and forces a good analysis of each team's strategy and debating, rather than just a "Team X wins, because they were better" type of response.
Originally posted by Original Smurph
Why so serious?We're chill. Just chatting.
Apologies all around if I've been short with anyone. Migraines are teh suck. 🙁
Originally posted by Original Smurph
Yeah. I like the system. It's more thorough, and forces a good analysis of each team's strategy and debating, rather than just a "Team X wins, because they were better" type of response.We're just musing. No worries.
Just thought some kind of general guidelines might be helpful for both judges and contestants, especially now that we have an even number of judges for the remaining matches. 😬
Originally posted by Starscream MIf you consider debating to be the effort, skill and style that they put in to backing up their arguments, and effectiveness to be the judge's overall impression of whether they'd actually pull off everything they say, and whether it would have seriously damaging impacts on the opponents, then they're not necessarily dependent on each other.
I see your point. I'm a little confused on how a team gets great debating score but low effectiveness, but that's up to the individual judge.
If Poster A writes ten solid posts about how Wolverine should be able to stab Thanos and cause him pain, and Poster B posts a single scan of Thanos taking a blast from Odin and being fine, I wouldn't give Poster B a huge debating score, but probably a high effectiveness score.
Just my two cents.
edit- Granted, the example here is obviously something you'd never see in a tournament like this, but I'm just saying that debating can be exclusive from effectiveness.
My suggestion for scoring criteria (I know its kinda late)
Debating score is the total score that comprises of 3 elements
1) originality and creativeness - 5 points total
2) presentation and style - 5 points total
3) effectiveness and feasibility - 10 points total
so a perfect debating score would be 20 points total.
what do you guys think?
Originally posted by TheKahnNo worries. Hakuna matata and all that jazz.
Apologies all around if I've been short with anyone. Migraines are teh suck. 🙁
Originally posted by TheKahnOf course. The best tourneys always employ a little innovation like this.
Just thought some kind of general guidelines might be helpful for both judges and contestants, especially now that we have an even number of judges for the remaining matches. 😬