Captain America vs Elektra

Originally posted by Juk3n
Cap is not faster than Elektra, not in movement, OR reaction/combat speed. Deflecting individual bullets with her sais is >> anything Cap has on panel. And i am hugely Cap Bias.

And as for him being (so cut and dry) "The strongest and most durable" There's a 100 billion page Batman vs Cap thread a few places down that might beg to differ. But if you have such conclusive proof, please share it.

Or is this another "Spider-man could never be hit by a street leveller" argument, where your own opinions take precident over the facts? 🙄

Cap is the fastest of all the peak humans. He has the feats to prove so. Deflecting bullets is nothing when Cap had supposedly dodged a bullet from point blank range. It is easier to catch a fastball from far away than it is to move out of the way of one at close range. I never seen Elektra ever move in blur like movements. Hell, daredevil has hung with her and batted bullets himself.

As far as durability, how do you think she would fare if she gets hit by a class 100 being? I don't think she would fare very well. Cap can and has. Cap is better in everyway. Cap without shield against Elektra with sais is a good fight. This isn't.

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap is the fastest of all the peak humans. He has the feats to prove so. Deflecting bullets is nothing when Cap had supposedly dodged a bullet from point blank range. Hell, daredevil has hung with her and batted bullets himself.

Deflecting >> Dodging, picking out individual bullets and countering them with a sai or BILLY CLUB no more than a few inches in width at the MOST,is 10 times harder than dodging the round. Cmon dude, this is comics, everyone and their mothers has a bullet dodging feat...you have to come better than that.

Originally posted by h1a8
I never seen Elektra ever move in blur like movements.

Blur is usually artist interpretation of fast movement, either way the statement is valid proof that YOU'VE never seen any superior Elektra speed feats, because you havn't READ any Elektra :/ you don't even need to purchase a comic for goodness sake, prolly the best Elektra respect thread on the net is 4 clicks away.

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap is better in everyway. Cap without shield against Elektra with sais is a good fight. This isn't.

No son, it would be an uphill, his durabilty would only come into play if Elektra (completley out of character) tried to have a slugfest!!

class one hundred blows don't leave holes in your torso 😐

Originally posted by Juk3n
Deflecting >> Dodging, picking out individual bullets and countering them with a sai or BILLY CLUB no more than a few inches in width at the MOST,is 10 times harder than dodging the round. Cmon dude, this is comics, everyone and their mothers has a bullet dodging feat...you have to come better than that.

No son, it would be an uphill, his durabilty would only come into play if Elektra (completley out of character) tried to have a slugfest!!

class one hundred blows don't leave holes in your torso 😐

I though we were only referring to who has the greater durability. What you said here is irrelevant since Elektra can stabbed too and also killed by a class 100 being's punch.

The Elektra respect thread had all it's images break. Damn.

Anyway a scan in particular I'm recalling was when Elektra had been drugged and poisoned (as usual) and she dodged a bullet and point blank (within 2 feet of the opponent) and back flipped away while throwing her sai to snag him. She even comments, "Stay still..." to emphasize her condition and how blurry things are.

That scan has her in "blurred movements" too.

She also ran through a mercenary camp with "blurred images" not being seen. Not that I think being drawn as blurred means shit in comics. That's the same argument some people try and use to say that Quicksilver is faster than Wonder Woman because she doesn't get drawn blurred.

look guys, it doesn't matter how they were drawn, almost any street level MA has good showings of dodging bullets. it's the way the comics make them look cool.

let's just look at the facts:

Capt. A has the super soldier serrum which makes him a notch above the peak human. Elektra, no matter how good she may get, can only become peak human in the physical aspect. Thus the term peak human.

That alone means that capt is faster. Unless elektra is some enhanced/meta human that i didn't know about.

Why is Elektra the flavor of the month character this month? Something happen with her? She always seemed so dull to me.

Originally posted by FrothByte
look guys, it doesn't matter how they were drawn, almost any street level MA has good showings of dodging bullets. it's the way the comics make them look cool.

let's just look at the facts:

Capt. A has the super soldier serrum which makes him a notch above the peak human. Elektra, no matter how good she may get, can only become peak human in the physical aspect. Thus the term peak human.

That alone means that capt is faster. Unless elektra is some enhanced/meta human that i didn't know about.

No don't do that, you're reading too much into the title "super soldier syrum" people do the same thing in fights involving Blade by saying "he's faster, he's is teh Vampyre" it's just a title in comics. Yes when cap was first concieved, he was supposed to be the be all and end all of Peak Humans, but then came Batman, and he pretty much has feats to match Cap in every aspect, bar a few high end strength ones.

Then comes Daredevil, who also despite only being "peak human" has deflection and agility feats that rival Cap. Same for Elektra who i might add CONSISTANTLY demonstrates Superhuman levels of speed and agility. Peak, Enhanced, Super this, Mutant, Vampire, Science project, they;re just titles, we go by feats. And according to the feats this fight is not so cut and dry.

And as for Elektra being enhanced/meta human, she has swatted a bullet away fired from a few feet away with her bare hand and had no damage from it...take that how you want, she may not be :biographically stated" as enhanced, but the feat still stands as much more than human.

Originally posted by FrothByte

You telling me that a human (altho superbly conditioned) is faster than someone who is one notch above the peak human? So what's the use of the super soldier serum if normal people can just train extremely hard and be just as good as you?

No one is telling you anything, the FEATS IN THE COMIC BOOKS are contradicting the bios you're reading about Cap. What he's supposed to be, is not the same as what he IS. Is he supposed to be the fastest? Yes..IS he? Debatable..he has feats matched by Batman, Elektra, Blade, Taskmaster, Cassy Cain, Shiva has some nice combat speed feats to match, Nightwing has some Agility feats to match, maybe exceed...and so on.

Heres another example, Spider-man..he has SUUUPER human speed and agility, and - most importantly - precognition, right? Should he get hit by common thugs and "peak humans"? No, Does he? YES. But he's so superhuman everyone cries..well? it's Marvels comic, and if they say he can get hit..he can get hit :/, same with Cap and Elektra..If she can use a sai an inch across to block individual bullets after being fired, run through a busy merc camp without alerting anyone, run across snow without leaving foot prints, and move so fast she is a Blur UNDER WATER, than thats what she can do..she matches and exceeds Cap in speed. :/

Originally posted by Juk3n
No don't do that, you're reading too much into the title "super soldier syrum" people do the same thing in fights involving Blade by saying "he's faster, he's is teh Vampyre" it's just a title in comics.

Originally posted by Konton
Yeah.

You think the feats are comparable.

Cap

Cap beats her like a Lifetime movie of the week.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Cap beats her like a Lifetime movie of the week.

except when someone uses it in a crude joke such as this. 😆

Originally posted by Juk3n
No one is telling you anything, the FEATS IN THE COMIC BOOKS are contradicting the bios you're reading about Cap. What he's supposed to be, is not the same as what he IS. Is he supposed to be the fastest? Yes..IS he? Debatable..he has feats matched by Batman, Elektra, Blade, Taskmaster, Cassy Cain, Shiva has some nice combat speed feats to match, Nightwing has some Agility feats to match, maybe exceed...and so on.

Heres another example, Spider-man..he has SUUUPER human speed and agility, and - most importantly - precognition, right? Should he get hit by common thugs and "peak humans"? No, Does he? YES. But he's so superhuman everyone cries..well? it's Marvels comic, and if they say he can get hit..he can get hit :/, same with Cap and Elektra..If she can use a sai an inch across to block individual bullets after being fired, run through a busy merc camp without alerting anyone, run across snow without leaving foot prints, and move so fast she is a Blur UNDER WATER, than thats what she can do..she matches and exceeds Cap in speed. :/

unfortunately, almost every single hero (and sometimes villains) in comics will always be drawn doing something that person isn't supposed to be doing. that's why it's comics, that way the look uber. or sometimes its just plain bad writing. but using what a character is drawn to be doing for fact is pretty debatable.

for instance, if we accept the fact taht elektra/dd/capt/batman etc. can dodge bullets, does that make them faster than bullets? That's pure BS, and yet they keep on drawing them like that coz it looks cool.

yes spidey gets shown as being hit by street levellers, and if people continue to use that arguement, we take away the fact of spidey's spider sense.

don't try to keep on denying what the super soldier serrum is supposed to do. the way comics are drawn changed over the years, but the fact still remains that the serrum puts cap just above your peak human... and anybody who is just human will only ever be peak human.

Originally posted by FrothByte

but the fact still remains that the serrum puts cap just above your peak human... and anybody who is just human will only ever be peak human.

prove it.

your still focused on the title of "super soldier" the fact remains this is flawed and that isnt my opinion.

Saying Cap wins Because "he has teh super soldier syrum" DESPITE the facts that the person we have pitted him against has accomplished the same/better feats is delusional. You can't argue like that. That sh!t does not compute.

Let go the labels, look at the EVIDENCE.

Me: Evidence says she's faster and has equal or better reactions.
You: But that can never be true, Cap has the syrum and is beyond what un-enhanced people can achieve.
Me: I hear you...but she has the feats to prove it.
You: But it's not possible because Cap has teh Syrum.
Me: facepalm

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Truth be told Cap already showed not to be as strong as a vampire.

Also Elektra is not simply a peak human. She a meta human and was train in the dark arts. She has developed such abilities as Telepathy, illusions, mind tricks to make her forget events ect. To pretend that her physical abilities displaying something beyond human is a stretch or not pluasable is wrong. She has meta human stats. She shown this numerous times. He creator intended her to be far more then human and has display her as such from the get go.

Originally posted by h1a8
False. for every time you show me that she uses a different weapon I can show you 3 different times she used her sais. It is common sense that sais is her standard gear and nothing else.

Originally posted by Konton
She stated he was better than her, and then asked him why he always lost to her. She was referencing his physical advantages are how they were inferior to her power set.

Originally posted by Konton
She was also thrashing him around like a chump shortly after the Weapon X crap ended. His HF and memories were screwed up though so it's just another plotty encounter.

Originally posted by Konton
Then there was Wolverine stating on panel during the Gorgon fight that went something like, "Since Elektra, worlds greatest ninja, was taken out what chance do I have?"

Originally posted by Konton
Taking all of these encounters as a whole, I think it's safe to say Elektra is, at the very least, Wolverine's equal in combat. I would personally put her slightly above him but I acknowledge she's always been my favorite Marvel character and I'm probably a tad bias.

Mark Millar didn't create Elektra. It was Frank Miller.

Since when secondary weapons aren't allowed, h1a8?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Mark Millar didn't create Elektra. It was Frank Miller.

Since when secondary weapons aren't allowed, h1a8?