MA ability vs Overall Skill

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I personally think polls are useless on KMC

Well okay I guess it depends on a lot of things... Ma to me is a skill set... You are taught proper forms to punching kicking and where to hit to inflict the most damage... From my experience which isn't much... I knocked around a guy about my size back when we were both 14 freshmen in HD... I was a yellow belt in mine ... My friend was one below black belt in taekwondo...

Anyways I knock him repeatedly to the ground... Because although he was a higher belt in another martial arts... They sparred only once a month and we sparred every day we were there... And personally sparring teaches you more about actual fighting than anything else in my limited opinion

But then let's say you have two guys that both "spar" in their fields... Then it could be up in the air... Yes martial arts teaches you form... But Boone uses any of the fanciful stuff in a real fight. Saying you took martial arts is like saying I weight trained.. You conditioned your body to react well in a fight...

And size and speed obviously play a role.

I don't think sparring replaces a real fight completely because at the end of the day it is sparring and you know that there will be tap outs or breaks, not so in an actual fight, what if someone takes it all the way?

Sparring is good as a learning tool to utilizing techniques under more pressure though.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Martial Artists have been trained in tools that help utilize their movement and physics, but does that directly equate into fighting efficiency alone?

How about skill?

How does it work? What is the comic/forum's belief on skill on this site and MA ability, and how it coorelates? Do we use a character's stated skill even if they don't show it?

As for using a character's never-seen stated skill? Depends on the character, ie, what's 'in character' for them, their powerset, etc.

What about experience?

Originally posted by Ambient
MA is just one tiny aspect that constitute to logans formidability, his way of thinking (personality) makes up most of it.. We have seen him fight with or without healing, heck even without MA (berserk).. practically describe as primal, more of an animal..

Originally posted by Mindship
I thought that was exactly what their training was designed to do.

That's what you get with MA training.

'Ability' can be inborn (eg, good high jumper), or it can be acquired through training. If the latter, it becomes a skill. If the martial artist dominates his peers with his skills, we may say he has a lot of natural ability.

As for using a character's never-seen stated skill? Depends on the character, ie, what's 'in character' for them, their powerset, etc.

Experience is the best teacher. Builds character as well as skill. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
The way Battlehammer describes it, Wolverine's berserker rage thing seems to be less of a beserker rage and more of a strength, regen, attack speed, and intelligence buff. Also he looks angry while doing it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
MA ability is vastly overrated on KMC in general.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
The way Battlehammer describes it, Wolverine's berserker rage thing seems to be less of a beserker rage and more of a strength, regen, attack speed, and intelligence buff. Also he looks angry while doing it.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
That one was confusing, why not always be beserk?

Because it extremely dangerous. A lot of the times he goes Berserker he not even completely berserk. It makes him see in red and few everything as target/prey. He will kill anything in sight when completely gone which is what makes him so dangerous he a walking killing machine who blood thirst can't be quench. Which is why he can't allow it to take hold, becuase if he ever let it completely consume him he kill friend or foe with out hesitation.

Well that's the definition of berserk, it is more than a "stat increase" but he thinks the same, see what I mean?

I think that the fact that people developed thier own skill in order to invent/found martial arts justifies the possibility that a charcter could in theory develop fighting skill over time that is in effect just as good or better than any established form other "certified" MA artists employ......especially when it is most likely to contour to and enhance their own strengths/abilities.

bottomline.....i don't think MA ability is so vital. if a character who begun with no skill in fighting fights a million different times over a lengthy amount of time, they will develop fighting skill......even seperate from their own special powers, whatever they may be

Exactly, they had to start somewhere. I know you are talking about Spiderman and his own unorthodox style, that style works because it is unpredictable, fighting someone who you haven't seen move like that before is difficult. Now he could benefit from learning some new things (not necessarily Earth moves), but any character benefits from learning something new.

c-master you are talking too much bullcrap to be honest because MA is what skills are all about you idiot

Well Superman did become a much more effective fighter after Wildcat taught him boxing but its not like if you don't have MA skill of some sort you're a bad fighter automatically.

Spidey doesn`t have any "style". He is just bouncing about, riding his spider sense and throwing sloppy attacks. He is no more "skilled" than a middle school bully who uses size and strength to his advantage. Used to mix it up perhaps, but with horrible technique.

He would be an absolute beast if he took a few years to master an art under a good instructor. First step would undoubtedly be to unlearn a lot of bad habits that is part of his so called personal "style"

Agreed that most of Spider-Man's style relies on his speed, strength, and Spider senses but he's shown that he's still very agile while depowered.

He hasn't mastered any form of MA BUT he's got something that can be called his own "style" it's his acrobatic movements and he is pretty skilled in it.

MA overrated.

Yup, people on KMC generally over use MA. Sure it's a good way to get an advantage, but it's not everything. Size and strength and natural speed come into play.

Experience counts for a lot during a fight. A martial artist who have trained for years in a dojo but has never fought in a real fight will have a nasty surprise for him if he ever comes up against you average 6'3" nightclub bouncer.

i remember this one thread here where the superheroes' powers were all removed and put in a slugfest... and some guys here on KMC were arguing that wonderwoman (without powers) would beat thor (without powers) just coz of all her fancy MA which i think is purely BS.

Man we need better socks and trolls, they sure hack the polls up though, looks like we're 50-50. We do know that Spiderman was a wrestler, wrestling=MA.

Doesn't have a style? SS has a style, and he doesn't use MA, so does Odin, so do many characters without the need to move up. Hell Galactus has one. Stop thinking styles and skills as only kung fu, oh and his attacks are often much more graceful than other street level MA's who flail wildly about. But for some reason their haymaker is an automatic karate su permove, while other characters hits are just normal. *sigh*

Originally posted by Mshinu
Spidey doesn`t have any "style". He is just bouncing about, riding his spider sense and throwing sloppy attacks. He is no more "skilled" than a middle school bully who uses size and strength to his advantage. Used to mix it up perhaps, but with horrible technique.

He would be an absolute beast if he took a few years to master an art under a good instructor. First step would undoubtedly be to unlearn a lot of bad habits that is part of his so called personal "style"

Also I agree extra training would benefit him, but he isn't a nobody without it, he's had his powers removed and was able to survive supervillians.

Basically the problem is that many posters on the forum are thinking about him using human abilities, which are much less useful for him. His style is unorthodox and goes with his power sets. He getting training would help his style of thinking, nothing more. What would he start doing? Normal Earth based moves where he stands still and does one hit a a time? Which is harder to defend? That or a person doing something unorthodox that is hard to defend against.

Take it from an actual MA with really good experience AND really high physical ability. And I'm not talking about these people who all think they know something because they watch UFC.

But since you guys love UFC as an example. Why did Brazilian Jiu Jitsu become so popular and effective? Pop quiz.

It was because the styles that fighters were using on this side of the globe were mainly boxing and poking tactics with no defense against ground and grapple based moves. When BJJ came about it was new and unorthodox and people didn't know how to defend against it, hence it was so powerful. Now everybody knows it and it is effective (but somewhat overrated). Would a guy with only BJJ knowledge stomp in MMA now? Hell no, he would be crushed by other competitiors.

But we must also look at stat gap, you can put me against a 12 year old 3rd degree black belt and he would get stomped (they are out there). My physical ability is much higher, much higher than an averge man's and much more a small kid. Hence why I train everything. It is all one pool really. Muai Tai users and wrestlers use their size, strength, and everything else. Smaller martial artists use their speed. So what? Fuel for the engine.

If they are evenly attributed and one has more physical training, that person will often do better.

If they are evenly s killed and one has higher stats, the other one will more often do better.

If one is a little more skilled, and the other is quite higher physically, the latter will still win because physical ability is always there. It isn't something you turn off. A "skilled" person still makes mistakes and are open to different things, hell the most skilled fighter can be beaten by an average Joe at the bar if he's hit the right way.

Now Parker with no powers isn't going to take on Batman, of course not, but he could take on an average or well trained man with no powers, I believe that. Even without his super powers he would still be more physically advantaged than most could hope to achieve that are normal humans, and he is still more dangerous with his powers and without that (what if) training, than he would be with the training and no powers.