MA ability vs Overall Skill

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I'd say SF characters and characters like Karate Kid and Gamora are superpowers, others are more assets than anything. Being a skilled boxer doesn't make you suddenly "super" at punching.

When they use the powers to break mountains or shoot fireballs with it, that's another story entirely.

I though about MA beating physically superior opponents with pressure points etc. Or a single person beating an army of trained fighters just with MA skill alone. In RL impossible.

People do the former in real life but of course not the latter. It would take great powers or physical superiority to do that. Then again mass amounts of people tend to job.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
People do the former in real life but of course not the latter. It would take great powers or physical superiority to do that. Then again mass amounts of people tend to job.

I mean superior like Grundy 😉.

As for the mass jobbing, true, but not in RL, there even the best would be overwhelmed.

You mean Batman hurting someone like Grundy? That's PIS really.

Oh I agree. In real life the best fighter can be beaten by an average joe if he's caught off-guard. No way would the most skilled fighter beat dozens of men. They'd have to job.

If 616 Peter parker was temporarily depowered and, after a week of adjusting, went to a parallel universe to meet and fight an alternative Parker-who had trained in Ma but never had a fight, Ireckon 616 would win. This is because he is a seasoned fighter who's experience allows him to, among other things, anticipate his opponents moves.

Definitely, experience amounts more than anything really. Sitting in a dojo and never using it doesn't mean a whole lot, the real world doesn't play by those rules.

Of course I'm assuming the MA Spiderman is depowered as well right?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
This is something that has been debated for a very long time. Martial Artists have been trained in tools that help utilize their movement and physics, but does that directly equate into fighting efficiency alone?

How about skill? We've seen arguments about how certain characters take down several opponents with skill? Well any character who has done that wouldn't be considered skilled based on the fact that they haven't taken a Martial Arts Class?

How does it work? What is the comic/forum's belief on skill on this site and MA ability, and how it coorelates? Do we use a character's stated skill even if they don't show it?

What about experience? Should characters like Thor and Herc who have lived for a very long time but haven't been in a traditional Martial Arts class or training session be considered less skilled? Should Punisher be considered less skilled when he does things with no powers at all?

Debate, poll, discuss.

All fighting are considered MA. Remember it is still an ART, and not just a science.

Spider-man for example, has a unique fighting style which would be still considered a MA. Greco Roman wrestling, which Hercules is a master of, is also a MA.

To be a MASTER of a certain MA means to master all the SKILLS of that MA. And to master the SKILLS one must have the necessary experience. That is to say, if one is a master at a MA then they certainly have the sufficient experience.

Now some MAs are superior to others. Also, some have learned a MA to relatively higher level than others who has mastered a different MA. That is why it seems that skill is seperated from MA ability. For instance, CA knows more different MAs than Iron Fist yet Iron Fist can hang with CA in h2h. This is because either IF's MA is superior or equal to any MA CA knows or IF knows his MA at a higher level than CA knows any of his MAs.

Lastly, It could be a either a detriment or advantage to know more different MA. Most think it could only be an advantage though, which is wrong. Knowing many different martial arts can possibly slow the speed of decision. For example, when I see a math problem it takes me a little more time than necessary to attack it since I'm initially and subconsciously trying to figure the most efficient way to tackle the problem. But if I only knew one very efficient way to do the problem then I would do it much faster without hesitation.

Remember, speed of decision plays a large role in fighting. But if one develops a habit of utilizing which technique from which MA to use in which situation without hesitation then knowing more different MA is a clear advantage. So when knowing more different MA then overall skill is indeed separated from MA ability.

You make some good points, but I think that MA ability might be MA skill, but it wouldn't be skill overall. There are so many aspects of skill, Spider Sense is a skill that Spiderman uses. Moving fast is a skill, driving is a skill. Reed has his skill(s), but MA ability is one part of a whole spectrum in the big picture.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You make some good points, but I think that MA ability might be MA skill, but it wouldn't be skill overall. There are so many aspects of skill, Spider Sense is a skill that Spiderman uses. Moving fast is a skill, driving is a skill. Reed has his skill(s), but MA ability is one part of a whole spectrum in the big picture.

I think a skill is something that can be learned. Spider-sense is a power not a skill. It can't be learned. Moving fast and driving are definitely skills. In MA one must not only be able to do a maneuver but they must be able to do it with sufficient speed, otherwise they can't do the maneuver and hence haven't mastered the Art.

Lastly we are only referring to skills that are useful in fighting. Not skills that can only be used in prep before the fight. Calculus skills won't help you in h2h. So Reed's skills are irrelevant in this discussion.

You are gaining skill, you become more experienced with Spider Sense over time, same thing with Brock Venom and Gargan Venom, MA will always be improved upon in time. Flash took time to master his powers, as did Superman. You put a younger version of those characters against themselves with equal power and the less experienced version would lose if they had just received the powers. They are powers but some are more skilled and creative when using theirs. Give a person Magneto's powers and they won't become as proficient as Eric, etc etc. Someone with Cyke's powers won't just immediately bank shots, now if they had super coordination it would help, but they would still have to hone it.

Skill is really just a big part of the picture. It isn't really hard to grasp, now in h2h those were learned and done overtime and perfected, a book didn't come out of the sky, no different than Spiderman's style, he learned and adapted and changed tools to what works best for each situation, no different than anything else really.

Ability vs skill....

Cyclops has the ability to fire concussive blasts from his eyes

After so many years of doing it, he has developed much skill with the beams.

Martial arts is less an ability than it is a skill.

Yep, but your skill also shows your ability to do it, it just isn't "granted" (for the Earth level anyways), cosmic MA or "superhuman MA" is generally different.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Definitely, experience amounts more than anything really. Sitting in a dojo and never using it doesn't mean a whole lot, the real world doesn't play by those rules.

Of course I'm assuming the MA Spiderman is depowered as well right?

Yeah he is depowered. sorry I should have said

Bump!

MA arts tends to go hand in hand with skill at least in the marvel U more so then the real world...

anyways MA tend to be viewed as a superpower in itself evening out the playing field with certain metas at least the elite MA'ers can..

this fight scene shows a pretty good representation of a MU MA'er of how he might view the fight with someone who might be slightly superior due to stats.

wm_GxGsLvj8&feature=related

There are some people who aren't *that* good in HtH who are some of the very best at using their powers, like Superman.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
MA arts tends to go hand in hand with skill at least in the marvel U more so then the real world...

anyways MA tend to be viewed as a superpower in itself evening out the playing field with certain metas at least the elite MA'ers can..

this fight scene shows a pretty good representation of a MU MA'er of how he might view the fight with someone who might be slightly superior due to stats.

wm_GxGsLvj8&feature=related

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You are gaining skill, you become more experienced with Spider Sense over time, same thing with Brock Venom and Gargan Venom, MA will always be improved upon in time. Flash took time to master his powers, as did Superman. You put a younger version of those characters against themselves with equal power and the less experienced version would lose if they had just received the powers. They are powers but some are more skilled and creative when using theirs. Give a person Magneto's powers and they won't become as proficient as Eric, etc etc. Someone with Cyke's powers won't just immediately bank shots, now if they had super coordination it would help, but they would still have to hone it.

Skill is really just a big part of the picture. It isn't really hard to grasp, now in h2h those were learned and done overtime and perfected, a book didn't come out of the sky, no different than Spiderman's style, he learned and adapted and changed tools to what works best for each situation, no different than anything else really.

cyke also has crazy accuracy and a better than normal sense of geometry. 😛

That is true, that "helped" him get better faster, but he still has lots of skill, obviously.

it depend on the individual experience