Superman vs Hercules with a twist

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I really don't see why as both have feats to match. I might as well take the stance that Thor is stronger if we're gonna ignore this stuff.

i'm not ignoring anything. from what i've seen, i just think Superman is stronger.

Thor's been shown that even without it, his just as formidable. I really don't understand why some people (Not you.) assume Thor isn't as formidable or is somehow weak without Mjolnir. I mean Thor has literally encountered beings in comics that have the exact notion and believe without his hammer Thor is weak. Thor drops his hammer and shows these beings that this is not the case. Thor hitting harder with Mjolnir is probably more of an exception than anything rather than the rule.

but we both agree that he can hit harder with it than without, right?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor's been shown that even without it, his just as formidable. I really don't understand why some people (Not you.) assume Thor isn't as formidable or is somehow weak without Mjolnir.

😆

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? Where does it say that Thor cannot fly without Mjolnir?

Are you still stuck on that phrase stated in Thor #601? All he said was that he prays Mjolnir has it in her to fly one more time. How you come to the conclusion that he cannot fly without it according to that statement is mind boggling.

Especially since in the next issue of Thor, his shown to fly with Mjolnir held at his side.

As for 601, it pretty much proved it.

He relied on Mjolnir when dead was at his door step. Where every second count and could have brought him misery for the rest of his life. And you tell me he just wanted to use Mjonlir to try and fly he he could have flown then without it?

Mjolnir makes things easier/more reliable for Thor. Doesn't mean that w/o he can't replicate the same feats.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I don't have those issues any more

As for 601, it pretty much proved it.

He relied on Mjolnir when dead was at his door step. Where every second count and could have brought him misery for the rest of his life. And you tell me he just wanted to use Mjonlir to try and fly he he could have flown then without it?

I'm not sure if you have caught on yet, but Rage basically is trying to turn Thor into... get this... Superman.

To him Thor can fly super fast without Mjolnir, can speed blitz at FTInstant Light speed, doesn't have a history of 'deus ex machina' with Mjolnir and uses pure strength for the win, and finally Mjolnir isn't an enchanted hammer and has no effect of his blows.

Let's ignore the fact that Thor has been shown to fly super fast without Mjolnir (Depending on the writer though, he has been shown to be unable to fly without it here and there. Like during Simson's run and the Hela fight for example.).

Mjolnir is an incredibly versatile object. Like I said, it adds versatility to Thor. A lot of versatility. But even without it, his incredibly effective.

Of course it's an enchanted hammer. Don't put words in my mouth.

Why on Earth would I want to turn a character like Thor into Superman? Superman never interested me, and always seemed boring.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I don't have those issues any more

As for 601, it pretty much proved it.

He relied on Mjolnir when dead was at his door step. Where every second count and could have brought him misery for the rest of his life. And you tell me he just wanted to use Mjonlir to try and fly he he could have flown then without it?

No it really didn't.

Are you really this desperate?

He always relies on Mjolnir to fly. But when he has to or his hands are full, he has shown that he can fly without it.

By that logic then you must believe that Thor can't teleport either correct? I mean instant teleportation would have been much more effective than flight whether through Mjolnir or not, but he didn't use it. So clearly Thor can't teleport anymore either amirite?

Christ.....

You're argument falls apart even further based on the fact that in the next issue of Thor he'll be flying with Mjolnir at his side.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i'm not ignoring anything. from what i've seen, i just think Superman is stronger.

Well, I think Thor is stronger then.

Originally posted by -Pr-
but we both agree that he can hit harder with it than without, right?

Depends on the writer. It has been shown that he can hit just as hard, or is as effective in combat without it as he is with it. On other occasions though, although not stated it's shown that he hits harder with it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well, I think Thor is stronger then.

Depends on the writer. It has been shown that he can hit just as hard, or is as effective in combat without it as he is with it. On other occasions though, although not stated it's shown that he hits harder with it.

😂

it's a hammer, though. i mean, no matter how strong i am or how strong you are, give us a sledgehammer and we become much more capable of wrecking shit with brute force. why wouldn't the same apply to thor?

Originally posted by -Pr-
😂

it's a hammer, though. i mean, no matter how strong i am or how strong you are, give us a sledgehammer and we become much more capable of wrecking shit with brute force. why wouldn't the same apply to thor?

It should be the case in real life logic, but it has been shown like I said, that his just as effective and can hit as hard without his hammer as he can with it in the past.

The difference between Thor with Mjolnir and Thor without it, has never been anywhere as large as it would be for me/you with a sledge hammer and me/you without a sledge hammer.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It should be the case in real life logic, but it has been shown like I said, that his just as effective and can hit as hard without his hammer as he can with it in the past.

The difference between Thor with Mjolnir and Thor without it, has never been anywhere as large as it would be for me/you with a sledge hammer and me/you without a sledge hammer.

all right, i guess...

Originally posted by -Pr-
😂

it's a hammer, though. i mean, no matter how strong i am or how strong you are, give us a sledgehammer and we become much more capable of wrecking shit with brute force. why wouldn't the same apply to thor?

this would be a closer fight if herc is givien flight, but at the end superman still wins due to his greater strength and durability.

Honestly, Thor has never been shown as being "weaker" than Hulk, they seem on pair with the other despite the fact that being strong is pretty much Hulk's whole powerset.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Brawler as in wrestler, yes. Fight, NO! Superman has years of training under Batman, WW, and many others. The fact that he was able to beat another Military and high ranked Kryptonian Officer in a few hits shows that.

Don't forget that Superman is still stronger, and more durable. Unless of course you got evidence to prove your claim.

What gave Superman the advantage is
Speed
Strength
Power
Versatility
Intelligence
Durability
Techiniques
and soo much more

The more Thor discussion gets dragged into this the further away we are going to get from agreeing on who wins Herc vs Supes.

Originally posted by Newjak
Strength no, Techniques no.

And to be fair he was able to take down the Kyrptonian officer because he is far more experienced with his powers and how to use them.

If you need evidence Hercules held the entire planet Earth before, as his Labors have been canonized.

As for technique just because you train with people doesn't mean you are as good as them. Herc as trained with Captain America, Wolverine etc. along with some of the greatest classical fighters such as Achillies, Ajax.

Herc didn't hold up the Earth. He just stood under it and posed.
Seriously, if he wasn't there what would the Earth had done, fall? I think not.

Superman has done feats that calculate beyond 50 Earth. weights of force.

The only think Hercules is better at is wrestling. Superman trumps him in everything else.

Originally posted by h1a8
Herc didn't hold up the Earth. He just stood under it and posed.

And there it goes your credibility in this debate 😕

Originally posted by h1a8
Herc didn't hold up the Earth. He just stood under it and posed.
Seriously, if he wasn't there what would the Earth had done, fall? I think not.

Superman has done feats that calculate beyond 50 Earth. weights of force.

The only think Hercules is better at is wrestling. Superman trumps him in everything else.

Bull. He held up Atlas' weight which is the Olympian version of the Cosmic Axis. If that's the case that's more impressive than holding up the worlds weight. Thor alone, has shrugged off the weight of half the planet on top of him.

When was this?

Hercules is also a better and interesting character.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hercules is also a better and interesting character.

that's entirely subjective.

Originally posted by -Pr-
that's entirely subjective.

Well that's pretty damn obvious. It's like saying, Blue is a much better color then red, or Midnight Summers Dream is a much better book than Romeo and Juliet. It's just that, it's, well, h1, so I'm trying a new approach. The dur logic.