Draft Round 3: Batdude123 and TheKahn's Holiday Herald Tournament

Originally posted by TheKahn
No specific version that I'm aware of. It was debated in the first round of the draft with most people agreeing that his feats did not put him over the limits. :

Genis has been shown to blink out the universe 😬....a specific version greatly depends on this.

Originally posted by -K-M-
No, Talisman II is the father of Talisman I. but if you want to get specific the female Talisman from Alpha Flight is Talisman III, as there were 2 Talismans before her.

Im not including the Australian Talisman in the numbering.

Originally posted by leonidas
not based on feats. it's really not even all that close if we compare feats of the 2. for that matter, talisman has pretty easily overridden loki's magic.

talisman>loki>strange?

Hes owned him twice by my count.

What? No.

Cancelling out someone's spell does not make you stronger than them. One enchanter has messed with and cancelled Odin's spell, but he is not more powerful than Odin, not by a longshot.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Genis has been shown to blink out the universe 😬....a specific version greatly depends on this.

I think the stuff about Onslaught is nonsense... OK, he has a pretty good showing in owning Juggernaut... who cares, I can show just about every character in this tourney has their highest feats at a level above that. I think it's quite the double standard myself. Xavier and Magneto are imo bottom of the barrel heralds, even combined they're nothing that goes beyond the boundaries of this tourney.

Originally posted by King Kandy
That was an alternate version who was not just alternate, but amped by HoM Witch unconsciously... that's not even close to applicable to the main Genis.

Im not talking about HoM, but yes he did that as well and he actually realized about the 616 universe and then started to blink out HoM universe thanks to Flashback. Where did it say he was amped by the Witch?

*****Attention******

Everyone please make sure you've read the rules at the beginning of this thread just to be sure you're planned tactics are compatible with them. Thanks.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Im not talking about HoM, but yes he did that as well and he actually realized about the 616 universe and then started to blink out HoM universe thanks to Flashback. Where did it say he was amped by the Witch?

As for the magic users, does anyone honestly think that there is anything either Zatanna, Shaman/Talisman II, or Loki could do that the other two could not?

Originally posted by TheKahn
As for the magic users, does anyone honestly think that there is anything either Zatanna, Shaman/Talisman II, or Loki could do that the other two could not?

I'm sure there are some things, given they specialize, but nothing that would make any of them above the caps or anything.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I'm sure there are some things, given they specialize, but nothing that would make any of them above the caps or anything.

They ARE magicians after all.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Hes owned him twice by my count.

What? No.

strange struggled against the enchantress too . . .

based on history of feats, strange is far greater than loki, regardless of old head-to-head battles.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I know that Loki can absorb abilities, but he won't have access to that ability per the rules.

quiet you!

😖hifty:

Originally posted by leonidas
strange struggled against the enchantress too . . .

based on history of feats, strange is far greater than loki, regardless of old head-to-head battles.

Originally posted by King Kandy
When did the 616 Genis ever blink the universe, or do anything close to that? As far as I know, we have rules on KMC that prevent alternate universe feats from being used under most conditions, and if we didn't, I wouldn't try to pass off a feat that happened to an alternate Genis like it happened to the Genis we drafted.

Crazy Gensis and Baron Zemo told Genis in THunderbolts he would destroy the universe so they got rid of him.

Originally posted by leonidas
strange struggled against the enchantress too . . .

based on history of feats, strange is far greater than loki, regardless of old head-to-head battles.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by leonidas
quiet you!

😖hifty:

Originally posted by -K-M-
Crazy Gensis and Baron Zemo told Genis in THunderbolts he would destroy the universe so they got rid of him.

I mean, you might as well say "Wonder Man is a multiverse buster" because he set of the flaw that was going to end the multiverse in Marvel: The End.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Ok, the Juggernaut feat is clearly an issue several people have. Is there anything else about the character that is objectionable? Strength-tp-energy manip.-durability-etc?

I'm just trying to determine if this characters feats clearly put him above the likes of a Green Lantern or Silver Surfer. 😬

I'm also worried a little in regards to Nate Grey. I mean the stuff he's done to date isn't big deal to me, but it seems like I've heard something about him running into Sentry sometime soon and Sentry's character is obviously more than a little "iffy" at this point. So if I've heard right about the intended crossover I think he should be treated like Sentry and only allowed past appearances.

Ok, Batdude and I have made a few decisions. First, we are going to allow the Magneto/Xavier version of Onslaught. Nothing we are aware of clearly puts him above the caps and there was technically no rule against using an independent character that was an amalgam of two other characters.

Also, as for all of the controversial characters in the tournament, we will be watching closely for any abuses of the rules or limits. 😐
Expect heavy penalties or disqualification if it is clear to the judges that a team is cheating in some way. So play by the rules.

Finally, the judges will be using the following criteria for scoring the matches:

Originality: 0-5
Effectiveness: 0-5
Debating Skill: 0-10

If one or more judge calls a match a tie, we'll go to point totals to decide a winner.