Batdude and Kahn's Match #3: Team JaketheBank/Smurph vs. darthgoober/Blair Wind

(continued)
3) He has already had the Power Cosmic and proven to be extremely adept at using it.

Do I even need to explain this? I think I'll just let the scans do the talking.

Shows molecular transmutation and awesome flight speed…
http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/3185/3transmutandflyyy6.jpg

Telekinesis and Density Control(to increase strength)
http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/4168/4tkanddensityxk4.jpg

Shows more tk, and creates a “Cosmic Cone”
http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/218/7tkandcosmicconecu0.jpg

Energy Absorption
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/7019/10energyabsorbtioncs1.jpg

Alters the molecules of cloud to absorb light, creating a massive “Darkness” effect…
http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/4747/15darknesscreationuw1.jpg

Changes flame into water vapor, alters composition of own body, and easily out distances Torch…
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/1834/18altersflameandbodyandqq6.jpg

Increases growth rate of a tree to capture FF…
http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/9900/20treegrowthrz2.jpg

Even MORE tk…
http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/1295/22tkij1.jpg

Their teams flaws:

Sinestro's Rings -

To begin, the team seems to think that using Green Lantern feats is acceptable due to a Yellow Rings proximity on the Emotional Spectrum. I have always found resistance by others in the idea that different Green Lanterns can accomplish the same feats, much less those with a differing ring power source. To assume that what can be done by a Green Lantern can be done by a Sinestro Corp ring is ludicrous.

However, what we have done is specifically target the fact that all the rings run on energy. In many instances Green Lantern rings have been shown to be susceptible to energy drainage, not only from the specific new rings (again, I only mention the GL rings because JaketheBank used so many in his scans. I don't agree they have all the same capabilities, but I do assume that energy can be absorbed in both cases)

As it has been shown before, Green Lanterns (and their Sinestro' ring counterparts by default) can be drained of energy:
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1261/halabsorvedv4.jpg

Therefore, Eradicator would have a field day absorbing all your ring's energies. And in addition to our Doom certified energy absorbers, which realistically should be enough, through the Power Cosmic we would be able to drain the rings also – as in, in addition to.

Silver Surfer drains power from a advanced band of space ships:
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/Surfercreatesmultipleforcefieldwith.jpg

Mixed with our other devices, such as the force field nullifier, there is really no plausible way for this team to still have forcefields or constructs of any kind.

Kryptonian's -

By converting your team into Kryptonian's you really played straight into our hands. You see, Eradicator is the #1 source of all information pertaining to Kryptonians. With the added benefit of the Power Cosmic on his team, its a simple matter of further draining your energy through the power cosmic.

So, again, in addition to stealing the energy from your rings, we would be absorbing the very energy that powers your bodies. Here are examples of the Power Cosmic draining individuals of their energy, almost instantly. Coupled with Eradicator's knowledge of Kryptonians, it should be a simple matter for Doom and Surfer to accomplish.

Stealing Hulks Gamma Radiation
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/Surferabsorbshulksenergyandusesitto.jpg

Surfer strips away Sympiras powers midbattle. Previously Sympira had obtained high level energy and matter manip powers by long exposure to solar radiation
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/Surferstripssympiraofherpowers.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/Surferstripssympiraofherpowers2.jpg

The battle scenario:

Black Hole:

With defenses down, and no where to go but in our sphere of influence, the black hole will do its job in disorienting and pulling at you.

While we successfully defended from it in the start through our anti gravity forcefield, we essentially trapped you. By being pulled in by the black hole, the effects of the “No Contact Zone” will slowly kill you.

No Contact Zone:

To begin with, it has been referenced many times, especially during the time of David Conner as an extension of Eradicator, that Eradicator tied the genes of Kryptonians onto the planet. Any who tried to leave, and many did such as when the Cleric stole the Eradicator, died horrible deaths. However, what seems to be mostly ignored due to the fact that it happened in the past is the fact that it DID happen. References of Daxamites being changed genetically when they left Krypton, to alien creatures who would die upon entering Krypton have all been recorded.

The method of attack is not attacking your specific genes, it is attacking you because your genes are not ours. If you believe we need extra help for some reason (even though Eradicator himself was the one who did this in the past) here is an actual on panel showing of Surfer doing the same thing. Surfer manipulates Lunatiks DNA so that he is bound to a planet and will die if he leaves. Therefore Doom with the Power Cosmic could create the backwards affect we are looking for.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/silversurferbindslunatiktoecosystem.jpg

And while you may pretend you have the defenses to block such an attack, we have systematically taken down all of your defenses already. You have nothing going for you honestly.

Extremely Vague Battle Plans on their part

Your Honors, we spent time coming up with a specific strategy and laid out a specific battle sequence to which we have not deviated. The reason? Because it will work. Not only have we accounted for generally all of their powers, we have caught them unprepared. Does it fill you with a notion of confidence that the opposing team can win when their battle plan is essentially

Shields

Re-direct attacks

Use our technopathy to combat their devices [Which would be illegal in this case - BW]

Scan opponents with Rings

Cyborg Superman (w/ rings) and Cyborg Sinestro will go on offensive.

Cyborg Sersi (w/ rings) will act defensively.

Honestly, that is nothing more than an individual telling you “If I were in a fight...well, I'd go on the offensive. You think I can win right?”

With no specific strategy in mind, our opponents have left the match, on their side at least, to be the most vague battle sequence I have ever seen. They have given no indication on what they would do, how they would do it, or even a general idea of what would work. And any response to this now would essentially be them trying to back pedal into a plan, after seeing ours.

Again, a part of debating is having a clear plan and following that plan while supporting it with clear evidence. The opposing team has not done so, instead relying on using their posts to muddle the waters while trying to disprove our positions, akin to many a presidential election. And honestly, that is the best they can hope to do. They have realized that if they cannot disprove our position, they really cannot prove theirs as they came in under prepared and with no clear plan.

To solidify for the last time, our battle sequence does take precedent because it accounted for all their tactics while they prepared for the wrong thing. In addition, we took out their sole defensive player from the very beginning with a spacial wave they had no way of countering. And to top it all off, we initiated a sequence of events while they basically expect you to believe that they can simply “go on offense” and win this type of tournament debate.

Sumary:

While our plans have shown to be intact, our powers have shown to mess well, and our strategies have shown a clear progression of events, the other side has been lack luster in terms of planning, or being able to fight off our technology.

In the end, there can only be one clear victor. And we just flat out prepared better. We win.

Unofficial Post

Just thought I'd point out that batdude extended round 1 until tomorrow at 5 in case Smurph came strait to this thread to post without checking the discussion thread first.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
The original "sharing of cosmic awareness" bit that you brought up was in context of telepathy and sharing knowledge.

These scans do nothing to support those effort. Look pretty though.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Yes. Hell yes that's outlandish.

Red sun doesn't work like either yellow or blue sun radiation.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
It's kind of funny, what you do here. You don't actually respond to any of the points that I made (presumably because you can't), and instead choose to attack what I said earlier and then proceed to act as if you've actually established a point.

The fact that Surfer doesn't use telepathy all that often doesn't take away from the fact that he's got skills in that department and the effect we're going for isn't all that difficult. Not to mention the facts that we don't need to transfer much info, and he's doing it in conjuction with Erads who Blair just showed is also an accomplished telepath.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
"a little prep" has never in Doom's history consisted of 20 seconds to make something superior to any energy absorber he's ever made, ever....

Originally posted by Original Smurph
No. What Doomsday does, like what Darwin does, is outside of his control- his body automatically changes to overcome challenges. We're just extremely smart shapeshifters, with superspeed and the capacity to instantly learn what you're attacking us with. Which means we can consciously force our bodies to change to our specifics, which is clearly different from Doomsday.

Very possible, I just pointed it out cause you used "auto adapt" in the description. Still, if you're talking about building the stuff we build into the Eradicator into yourselves, it definately qualifies as power copying.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I don't. As you said, he's an expert in Surfer- he's spent eons learning about the power cosmic and how to control it.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
First off, as you pointed out, the devices are inside Eradiactor- the specific mindblast blocking device that you're replicating needs to be wielded by hand, as shown in your scans. So Doom won't have much going for him.

Secondly, lol? Your will power > Exodus' mental defenses?

Not inside of, "built into". You really think we'd put the device were it would be of no use?

Doom's willpower>anyone else in Marvel(cept maybe Thanos), including Exodus. Anyone even remotely familiar with Doom knows that. He's also one of the most powerful sorcerers on the planet which also requires things like keen will/mental defenses. On top of that Doom now has 10% of Surfer's Power Cosmic and is safely behind the shields of the Eradicator.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Opening post, no extending the time in any way.

Originally posted by TheKahn
The 5 minutes for prep his a hard limit. Attempts to circumvent the amount of time given will not be tolerated. 😐

Any judge who feels a team is intentionally breaking/exploiting the rules is certainly allowed to hold that against the team in question when making their decision.

Originally posted by -Pr-
so speed building tech isn't allowed?

Originally posted by TheKahn
Within reasonable limits. Again, its up to the individual judges to determine if a team strays beyond the limits.

Mind you those quotes are from a while ago so there may have been an official change since then, if so please feel free to point it out. If there's not, I seriously doubt anyone will consider the amount of time necessary to be below the cap since we're just talking about slight mental alterations to devices that Doom's already created.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
The difference here, as I'm sure you're well aware, is that Sersi's powers are never used to their maximum potential. Doom's intellect, however, is always used to its max, which it what makes him so impressive in comics.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomIntellect13EmperorReturns2.jpg

...and he's still portrayed as being on Reed's level I'd say it was far from used to the max.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Furthermore, I have the scans proving that she's changing them. She says she's rearranging their molecules, you can see the people changing subtly (in facial structure), or drastically, by being turned into Deviants, pigs or Kree.

Not really sure what else you want. If you would like to ignore Sersi's entire history as a character specializing in matter transmutation, ok, do so. I don't really understand the concept of her claiming to have transformed men into pigs, everybody else in comics agreeing, and you disagreeing- what, is she dressing men up in pigs costumes?

With all that said, I'll take this opportunity to point out that Doom's magic is being overlooked in how valuable Doom's sorcery is going to be. He doesn't have much in the way of specific spells for us to reference, but he's demonstrated himself to be an accomplished sorcerer time and time again.

For instance he knows everything Cagliostro knows...
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomSorcery05IronMan149.jpg

And for those unfamiliar with Cagliostro
http://marvel.wikia.com/Cagliostro_(O-Bengh)_(Earth-616)

He's also proven the supperior of Master Kahn
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomSorcery18Namor31.jpg

Kahn's bio
http://marvel.com/universe/Master_Khan

And has even managed to temorarily stalemate and then temorally BFR Morgan Le Fay with magic(so suggesting a temoral BFR of course, just point out how bad ass he is)

So Doom's sorcery is a potent weapon for our team, and one that our opponents just can't counter.

Since this is about over and our opponents have spent the entire match just trying to attack our prep plans, I thought I'd take a minute to humor their arguements by looking at a "worst case" scenereo. Lets assume for a second that our team isn't able to accomplish ANYTHING truely useful during our prep, while our opponents prep goes just according to plan. At the start of the match it would be...

Surfer with 90% of his Power Cosmic
Doom with 10% of Surfer's Power Cosmic(and his own magic and such)
Fortress Mode Eradicator

vs

Kryptonian Cyborg Sersi
Cyborg Supes w/ring
Cyborg Sinestro

Now in a standard forum battle this would obviously be a lopsided fight, but luckily enough for us as Blair pointed out this is a tourney and our opponents entered this fight with no real game plan in mind, Our battle plan will still net us a win against that kind of indecisiveness for the following reasons...

1. In the opening seconds Sersi is still going to be thrown from the area by Surfer's spatial energy wave unless someone can post proof of Sersi, Cyborg, or Sinestro's skill at manipulating raw spatial energy. With Sersi gone, it's still a fight that's 2 on 3 in our favor and removes the character they've claimed to be able to defend against Doom's magic isn't there to help our her team in that regards.

2. Even without our energy absorbers, both Surfer(and as Blair demonstrated, the Eradicator) have significant abilities within the realm of energy absorption. If we for some reason can't create the absorbers(which is a fairly rediculous notion) we can still use our own innate abilities to accomplish the task. That means that one way or another, we're going to be getting stronger while our opponents get weaker. And if the judges believe that it's within our capabilities to transform Doom into Kryptonian(a fairly simple task for his team mates), that stolen energy could also be transfered to Doom in the form of solar energy(he's got a portion of the Power Cosmic too mind you) to amplify his Kryptonian abilties if the judges don't believe he'd be on Supes's level from the lamps.

3. Even at 90% power, Surfer's still not getting one shotted by Cyborg or Sinestro. I mean I could post a list of Surfer's durability feats as long as my arm, but I'm confident enough in his established history to think the judges will know about it without my having to post 50 scans for people to look through. On the other hand, aside from energy absorption Surfer has another perfectly viable way to completely screw up our opponents powers right out of the gate. I know it's not a feat against yellow rings(which is why I haven't posted it until now) but since our opponents are keen on using the feats of GL's as if they're equal it seems plenty relevant...

And Surfer's done that type of thing before against the Vision and Wonderman with more immediate and greater effect on the target...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/09.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/10-1.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/12-1.jpg

So he could easily do the same thing Supes did to Kyle and mess with your rings powers, or he could just do it to your solar energy reserves and screw up your Kryptonian powers. Or he can do both(mess up the ring and then your solar radiation) an leave you completely powerless.

4. Since Sersi's gone and Surfer's got some easy ways to match and/or beat either of the remaining opponents, that only leaves one to take on Fortress Mode Erads and Doom. Since both of the remaining characters are shooting for "Supes level" stats and Blairs already shown Erads to be far supperior to Supes physically, I think it's pretty obvious who'd win a head to head match between either remaining opponent and the tag team of Doom and the Eradicator.

And that's the result of a worse case scenereo where NONE of our prep works and all of their prep works... they still lose due to a poor overall battleplan. So it should be pretty obvious who'd win if the judges believe that any/all of our prep plans(which I believe we've shown to be fairly easy for us to accomplish) hold up. Just be safe though, here are yet more things the judges should keep in mind.

First of all our team isn't made up of morons, if for some reason our exact prep plans wouldn't work, they'd could easily recover and get the intended effects we're looking for. If for some reason the lights didn't sufficiently charge up Doom's powers, they could still be easily charged by Surfer's Power Cosmic...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_017_17.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_017_18.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_12.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_016_13.jpg

...and before Smurph says that doing that kind of thing would be massively draining on Surfer let me remind everyone of two things. First, he can always drain power off our opponents once the fight starts(so even if he were to begin low on energy he wouldn't be for long). Second, Quasar pulled energy equal to that of a small sun out of Surfer with no appreciateable effect

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Quasar-50-38.jpg

So any way you cut it, Doom's going to be starting this fight amped by yellow and blue solar energy if he can be turned into a Kryptonian.

By the same token if we can't successfully reconfigure Doom's forcefield to resist the effects of the blackhole, Surfer can easily raise one to do the job for us and still have plenty of energy left to do his share of the fighting...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GalactusTheDevourer2-13.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GalactusTheDevourer2-14.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GalactusTheDevourer2-15-1.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GalactusTheDevourer2-16.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GalactusTheDevourer2-17.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/GalactusTheDevourer2-18.jpg

...so we're protected either way. And if he's also focusing on absorbing energy because for whatever reason we're unable to build our absorbers, he'll be replentishing the power he expends with energy from our opponents rings. His energy level will increase from the execess energy from the drain, while our opponents rings are losing power both from continuosly fighting the effects of the blackhole itself and from having their energy drained to power our own force field and pump us up further. Which again just shows how our supperior battle strategy gives us a BIG edge over the opposition.
*On a related note, I searched high and low for evidence of at least one Doom's earlier armors being powered by a miniature blackhole, but to no avail. There's not a single doubt in my mind that such evidence exists because I HAVE seen the scan where it's specifically stated to be Doom's powersource, but I can't remember where it's at and ODG never wrote me back to tell me if he knew anything about it. But given Doom's overall brilliance and edjucation and Surfer's experience with things like blackhole's I think it's still entirely believable for Doom to be able to reconfigure a forcefield to nullify the effects of a blackhole with a combination of his computer like mind, Kryptonian speed, and Power Cosmic.

The same hold true for virtually everything we wanted done in our prep...

Team JaketheBank/Original Smurph aka Team Awesome
Post #8/10
Let me touch on some points here:

Energy Manipulation:

Absorbing and Re channeling sun's RED energy (he had turned the sun red). He absorbs all kinds of energy from any colored sun as yellow also powers him up:
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/...v2057p24qj3.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/243/sundipmn9.jpg

He turned the sun red? Great, as it's not a factor for our team. Henshaw can operate normally with red sun in the first place and due to our power rings, we can easily shield our bodies from radiation we don't want coming through our bodies. Not to mention that Henshaw was shown to be highly resistant to Kryptonite poisoning from his earlier appearances and practically immune in a later scenario. Your team is not going to be able to simply weakness exploit our team due to the fact we'll have no specific weaknesses to exploit.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/011.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/i/supermanmos10027gy6.jpg/

The first above scan shows how Henshaw is able to function at optimal levels without constant exposure to yellow sun while the below scan shows Henshaw commenting on how Superman is weak and hardly worth his time? Why? Because Superman was infected with a steadily growing case of Kryptonite poisoning. Henshaw essentially has the best of both worlds: access to a wide assortment of Kryptonian powers without being crippled to their weaknesses. And now each other member of our team is going to possess the same physical qualities. And that's without Qwardian power rings at our disposal. Speaking of which...

Sinestro's Rings -

To begin, the team seems to think that using Green Lantern feats is acceptable due to a Yellow Rings proximity on the Emotional Spectrum. I have always found resistance by others in the idea that different Green Lanterns can accomplish the same feats, much less those with a differing ring power source. To assume that what can be done by a Green Lantern can be done by a Sinestro Corp ring is ludicrous.

Are you serious? The Qwardian rings have been claimed by numerous sources to be equal in power, if not superior to the Oan rings back when the yellow weakness was in play. Any person with common sense can deduce that the Qwardian Rings = Oan Rings in power and function. Their only difference is they operate on two different sources of power: will and fear.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/06b68863.jpg

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/QwardianRingOan2.jpg

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/QwardianRingOan.jpg

Here you have Hal's mind inside Sinestro's body and without taking time to adapt much, uses the ring considerably well considering his prior experience using his own Oan Ring. The next scan is the very first unveiling of Sinestro with his power ring. At the time, when the yellow impurity was still a critical weakness to GL's, it was heralded as being even more powerful than Hal's own ring. And the next scan shows Guy, someone who has weilded both rings, claim the yellow ring is just as powerful as a ring used by a GL. Guy would later go on to claim the yellow ring was superior altogether simply because it had no weaknesses (aside from having to be recharged).

Coupled with the fact you're dealing with two beings who have shown explicit knowledge and skill in weilding both types of rings, only someone seriously deluded would even begin to think that Sinestro especially cannot match the feats of Lanterns shown or told to be be inferior to his skill and power. Considering that Sinestro was often dubbed "the greatest Green Lantern of them all" prior to Hal's arrival on the scene, it's no doubt that he's able to accomplish mostly every high end feat a Lantern of comparable or less skill has shown.

As far as the energy draining goes, good luck. Surfer and Doom and Eradicator are going to quickly siphon energy from our rings while at the same being able to adequately defend themselves and match our movement and high end reflexes to say nothing of our ability to simply out think them? That's rich. I suppose you're under the impression that energy absorbtion is a one way street, then? Because if we want to play "who can drain who first", we're going to win. Besides the fact that the Qwardian rings themselves can absorb/rechannel energy just as well as anything else you can attempt, we're also going to have instant access to energy absorbtion simply from being Cyborg-K's. Each scan you posted of energy absorbtion, the person(s) being drained did not posses our level of defenses or weaponry or skill set to prevent such a task or perform it ourselves. In essence, you've proven you can asborb energy, which is great, but have failed to prove you can absorb the energy from our rings, much less the energy our bodies are naturally using.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/GreenLantern168-15.jpg

Here Hal Jordan is shown able to actually reabsorb energy back into his ring after it had been forcibly expelled. That alone makes it plausible and possible for us to do the same. But then again, the yellow rings are obviously vastly inferior to the green power rings despite years of on panel evidence claiming otherwise. 🙄

I've been busy as hell and have a lecture in less than an hour, but I'll attempt to throw some last minute responses together here...

Opponents Issues:

Telepathy
The one feat that lends credit to the idea that their team might be able to throw something together psionically is the one of Eradicator messing with Matrix's mind, but that took places over a number of days! It also didn't show the effort, or even that it was precisely telepathy, as our opponents didn't even provide a scan of Eradicator within that whole set. Trusting that it was actually a telepathy feat, there's nothing there to back up the notion that it was accomplished or could be accomplished in the 30 seconds that it needs to be.

Obviously there's a big difference between providing proof of being able to do something and proving that you can do it in addition to a dozen other equally complicated and draining tasks within a few minutes.

Anyways, I've said quite a bit on the manner.

Sun Lamps

There is absolutely NOTHING provided by the opposition to prove that only lamps would power up the massive stores of energy that fuel kryptonians. The only proof was by comparing them to red sun lamps, which I've shown are not at all comparable.

Their solution?

"Surfer will power them up at the beginning of the match..."
Well, no, he won't.

Adventures of Superman #563-

Cyborg Superman doesn't need a yellow sun to function. Unlike Clark, he remains at full power despite the sun reserves. We're creating from-scratch kryptonians, we're not making suns and there's no mention of the battlefield being under a sun- so our opponents' last ditch plan to steal our energy in order to power up themselves won't work, because we have no need to fill ourselves up with said energy.

Then their entire battle chances hang upon the one scan, in which, if you read, Quasar LIES about hitting Surfer with a small sun's energies, SAYS that he lied about it, and admits that he was just draining power from the Surfer. He doesn't say how much, he just says that his comment about hitting him with a small sun's energies was, in fact, a lie.

So...

Unless the judges are willing to support the entire weight of their already highly questionable kreate-a-kryptonian plan- they lack the proof that they can precisely matter manip in the time they claim they can, the lack the proof that they can transfer experience in the time they claim they can, and they lack any proof of being able to power up those kryptonians... that's a hell of a lot riding on one questionable scan.

But, I'll leave it up to the judges to sort through the BS.

Cosmic Doom

Doom, with all the power he took from Surfer, was unable to become more powerful than any low herald, and many modern day high metas.

My opponents brilliant plan is to remove his armor, give him one tenth of that power, and hope for the best.

"But what about ze magic!?" they cry.

The only actual spell they've referenced is the Crimson Bands.

Hulk broke out in, iirc, Incredible Hulk #450.
On LAND Namor broke out of them in Marvel Team-Up V2 #8 (I believe)

Those were cast by Doc Strange, widely acknowledged to be far superior to Doom as far as magic is concerned...

There stands to be no reason why we won't snap out of them, if a Doom whose best speed feat is outdistancing the Human Torch actually manages to find time to cast them before Sersi mindrapes him or we just disconnect his head from his body.

The tech

Judges, honestly, just look at the context of the scans that they're using to back up their tech plans. They are nothing like the broad, multi-purpose, global scale tech they're claiming to be able to modify and invent in a few seconds. Especially since we now know that Doom will not have kryptonian speed and barely will have power cosmic speed to help him in the process, if such speed boosts are even allowed.

I mean, I'd go back to dissecting it scan by scan, but I'm in a rush and I truly do believe most of it is common sense...

On a separate note, if they're only being stored inside Eradicator, fantastic.

Then the ones that are personal use only (such as the telepathy blocker) can't be used by anybody but Erads, and they're still ours to scan, analyze and modify willingly.

Even if you believed that Henshaw's technopathy isn't tech based (though it is... his tech interacts and overrides machinery constantly), or that we couldn't, in the huge amount of time that we've left ourselfves during prep, simply reproduce the scenario that caused Henshaw's technopathy, Henshaw himself can still technopathically link to any machinery that they have, and Sersi can link to Henshaw. Pretty straight forward.

We can modify and copy any tech that they have, and we can use it for our own general purpose. That's what we do. It's not their power set, it's constructs they've made during prep that are now ours to view and use as we see fit. We're not hijacking their equipment, just their blueprints, then shifting them so they work for us. No big deal, Henshaw does it in comics constantly.

edit

Jake and I had a miscommunication, I was going to tack something on to his post, and he thought the match ended earlier than it did.

I'm gonna paste his post on to the end of mine. It's still well within the limit for one post, Paul said that he'd edit the above for me.

Now taking it home...

I'll just cover what Jake hasn't as far as our own prep goes, then I'll boast about how awesome we are a little bit, and leave it for the judges to decide the rest.

Spatial energy wave

I don't really understand where the notion that we need to be shown manipulating spatial energy (is that even a thing? or just a made-up term in surfer comics, and therefore something we can't have been shown manipulating?) in order to block it.

Do you need to be shown manipulating Qwardian energy in order to block it?

We have three expert ring wielders, with Cyborg Superman's ridiculous energy durability, and Sersi's own formidable durability.

I mean...

Omega Blast, full power. Just look at the scans. A weakened Surfer is supposed to knock out somebody with that durability, and a qwardian ring, and two equally powerful teammates, and Eternal's natural durability for multiple seconds... when Darkseid couldn't for a panel?

Har har.

Our battle plan

I don't really see what the issue is. We told you what we were going to do. Mesh together, as we have done, then utilize our tech and our rings and our natural abilities to take you down as efficiently as possible while Sersi constantly heals them up to full capacity.

Need we say more? You guys are the ones who said "our team isnt made up of morons", or something to that effect.

Really this shouldn't be a point of discussion. No, we didn't come up with specialized attacks, but that's not a point to attack mid-debate. We still have a team of tactical geniuses, all firmly linked telepathically.

Anywho...

Sersi's matter manip

I don't really know what to say. Sersi is clearly turning her friends into Deviants- the pink tails they're growing are really there, their genetics had to have really changed. In the Nega Bomb scans I posted earlier, as well as the Avengers-to-Kree scans, she talks about how it is matter manipulation that she's performing, even on the sub-atomic level.

There's nothing offered by our opponents to suggest that she couldn't replicate the same feats, just substituting "kryptonian" or "cyborg" instead of "Deviant".

Pretty sure the scans speak for themselves...

Final notes from Smurph:

We think faster, we're armed better, and they've been able to lay down no evidence that we can't do everything that we say we can.

We match or overcome them in every single category, and we're constantly healed. We're also constantly attacking them telepathically, something which they've provided no evidence of defense against (remember, even if they can match it with willpower, it'll still take up the total of their concentration... easy pickings for our offense players).

We're far more grounded in everything we've said, whereas our opponents require huge leaps of faith to even accomplish the smallest of their claims.

from Jake

Closing Arguements

In conclusion, when you look at Smurph and I's prep and opening strategy, you're going to find the following:

-Plausibility: There should really be little doubt, if any, that we can accomplish what we're setting out to do. Sersi is going to be using her immense transmutation and telepathy powers to transform herself and Sinestro into beings sharing the same physical components of Hank Henshaw (ie. Cyborg Kryptonians). She'll also telepathically share relevant knowledge between the group, enabling us to weild our new powers to the best of our ability. Sinestro and Henshaw will then, between the two of them, will be able to duplicate the single Qwardian ring twice, giving each member a ring of their own that will then be fully charged. Taking into account both Henshaw's and Sinestro's knowledge of power rings and the fact that Henshaw has literally "spawned" power rings mid battle, this is easy enough to accomplish.

-Effectiveness: Each member of our team will be a cyborg-kryptonian wielding a single Qwardian power ring charged to full power. Coupled with Sersi's own Eternal powers, if that doesn't scream effective, I don't know what will. Physically, we'll be able to respond to any challenge. Mentally, we'll be able to overcome any tricky situation. And with our sheer firepower and weapons at our disposal, we're prepared for anything.

-Power Cap: Seeing as this is the "high herald" tournament, I can safely say that without a shadow of a doubt, we're also safely within the confines of what's acceptable power limit wise. Since it was ruled that Henshaw with 10 power rings clearly breached what most thought was accepted, each member of our team is as powerful as possible without over stepping the bounds. A cyborg-kryptonian with a single power ring is obviously not above a High Herald. Can a Power Cosmic weilding Kryptonian amped off of Blue and Yellow Sun say the same?

Ok time to wrap all this up. So far in this match, Blair and I have continuously posted proof to support our ability to accomplish the relatively simple tasks we have in mind for our characters, while the opposition's arguements have consisted primarily of "Nuh uh I disagree with that so we'll win". Since the evidence has been scattered throughout our posts and is likely difficult to keep track of I figured I'd go through and address our prep one more time just so the judges know for sure how simple those plans are for our team.

Mind Link - 10 sec - This is a simple process for any telepath worth his salt, Smurph himself admits as much. Blair and I have shown Erads and Surfer to both be telepath's of some ability so it should be common sense for us to be able to do such a basic trick. But luckily enough for me, while we were looking through leo and Kahn's old tourney matches we found just the kind of thing Smurph is asking for in showing how much information Surfer can absorb/understand...
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6751/surfercomprehendsamilli.jpg
(Thanks to leo and Kahn for the above scan)

Take off Armor – 10 sec - Even Smurph doesn't question this one so I won't bother defending it. I would however like to point out that if Surfer's helping 10 seconds is an EXTREMELY generous estimate since he could use magnatism to remove it in a second if Doom powered down his defenses. So we'll likely have extra time if we need a few extra seconds in another portion of our prep.

Turn Doom into a Power Cosmic Kryptonian - 15 sec - We've seen that Erads can create a near perfect clone of Supes already and we've seen Surfer's ability to mesh his transmutation powers so it's pretty obvious that Doom's going to be a Kryptonian in no time flat. Even if Erads was(against all logic) unable to transform Doom into a Kryptonian, that's the kind of thing that Surfer could pull off BY HIMSELF. I've already shown him creating an entire body for Quasimodo in seconds and evolving an entire planet and everyone on by billions of years in a matter of moments, but here's further proof to support Surfer's ability to do it on his lonesome(let alone with help from Erads)

Surfer heals thousands of beings on a molecular level in seconds
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/CosmicPowersUnlimited04-SilverSu-1.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/CosmicPowersUnlimited04-SilverSurfe.jpg

Surfer alters Lunatik's genetic makeup in seconds
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/silversurferbindslunatiktoecosystem.jpg

So yeah, if Surfer can do it on his lonesome in seconds, does anyone really think he can't do in conjuction with Erads even faster? And even if for some reason Erads was only able to make an imperfect copy, does anyone really doubt Surfer's ability to correct the problem with ease?

Create Sun Lamps – 10 sec - We've went over this pretty thouroughly, Surfer can make them with ease(even Smurph acknowledges that).

Transmute Eradicator with tech goodies – 2 minutes - We've shown plenty of scans of Surfer and Erads transmuting complex devices, the only question is whether or not someone with a computer fast brain coupled with Kryptonian speed and the Power Cosmic can reconfigure devices that Doom's already invented within the two minutes. And given feats like this...
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3086/fantasticfourv105707traqz7.jpg
I think it's safe to say that he can.

Team Shrink/Eradicator goes “Fortress Mode”- 2 sec - Not something that's our opponents are even questioning.

(Simultaneously) Surfer and Doom on Defense/Surfer gets amped – 30 seconds- Again, not being contested by our opponents outside of whether or not Doom's a Kryptonian/

(Simultaneously) Planet sized “No Contact Zone” - 30 seconds- Erads has already done it once, pretty simple.

Other stuff

Cyborg Supes - The guys technopathy is his power, everything else is connected to/come from it. He didn't have Supes's body and then have cybernetic attachments added, he created both half at the same time with a seperated consciousness, it's not like the technopathy is built into the devices. So even if the Judges believe that Sersi was able to transfer his DNA to the rest of the team they still wouldn't get his technopathic abilities unless the judges believe that she can "grant powers" on a whim. Another thing worth noting is that while CYBORG might be immune to absorbtion, if they successfully copy his DNA his team's still going to be vulnerable to it because it's Supes's DNA they're going to be getting(as everyone knows, Cyborg is genetically identicle to Supes). If their claim is that they can recreate the fluke accident that gave Cyborg his true powers... well there's been no evidence to support such a claim. One final note to consider on that point, unlike us who took the deliberate step of energizing our Kyptonian, Smurph's team never actually did. They said they made themselves Kryptonians and left it at that. I can understand if the judges want to credit their characters with the foresight to power themselves up since it's pretty much common sense, but I just thought I'd point it out in case anyone has an issue with our pointing out that we could still power up Doom without the sunlamps.

Sersi - No real evidence has been provided that she can transmute her team into copies of Cyborg. I mean sure she might be able to make them all LOOK like Cyborg, but all their evidence seemed to suggest something that's more akin to shapeshifting than genetic manipulation. When Mystique turns into a bird, she looks like a bird in every respect and can fly using her wings but that doesn't mean that she can just give herself the power of flight. When she turns into Wolverine she looks just the same as he and gets herself an inferior(though identicle looking) set of claws, but that doesn't mean she gets his healing factor or superhuman senses. Same thing applies here, she's got lots of instances of being able to change people's forms, but there's no evidence that she can do something like turn herself and Sinestro into Kryptonians.

Sinestro- Has a documented vulnerability to absorption, we've shown as much. They can claim to be able to absorb our energy too, but unlike them we've actually posted feats(draining Hulk, Sympiras, alien ships, etc.) to support our ability to do so.

On the black hole forcefield, ODG came through with a scan showing that some of Doom's older armor's were powered by a black hole. It's not the one I remember, but it's close enough

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomArmor35-PointSingularityPowerSu.jpg

"My Point Singularity Power Supply..." and as everyone knows, singularities are blackholes. So Doom obviously already has enough knowledge on them to reconfigure a forcefield to resist their effects.

Our tech- Is built into the Eradicator like cybernetics and therefor OURS. If Cyborg tries to replicate it within his own body, it's the same thing as power copying. If he creates the devices externally, it can be easily transmuted by Surfer or Erads(since tranmuting technological devices is allowed). Or it could just be outright shut down by Surfer...

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/3654/silversurfer03p08globalsa2.jpg

Eradicator:

Just a reminder, we have the most physically imposing member on any team in this tournament. He's huge. What exactly do they plan to do to him?

I would also like to give some context to a few scans. Most notably a telepathy scan, as Smurph for some reason needs more evidence that we can manage telepathic connections:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3301/eradfamia1.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4854/eradfam2es2.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4774/eradfam3kb7.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5016/eradfam4vj1.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4341/eradsarahou6.jpg

Also, as far as defenses, while we are not allowed to offensive use T-Vo, Khan was kind enough to say we could propose that we would be shielded by psionics due to having that ability ( a passive benefit of it)

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2514/week032000supesmos096119hg.jpg

Doom

Energy Absorbers

The energy absorbers are still popular. What would the opposing team fails to understand is that they are tech inside Eradicator. All they require is an "on" switch, and BAM! instant energy absorbing (their power sources and their tech). The opposing team will not know what hit them. Again, I would rather the scans do the talking so here is a showcase of some of Doom's simplest energy absorbing technology:

Absorbing Franklin's Powers with just his personal absorbing modules:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomArmor44-PersonalAdaptersHeroesR.jpg

Absorbing HyperStorm's energy instantly:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Inventions/DoomPowerCosmicSiphonHarness05409.jpg

Doom's technology absorbing Cosmic Spiderman's powers without the knowledge of what type of energy it is! He wants to analyze it to be able to see how it functions. This shows that he does not need to know all there is to know about an energy before he can absorb it:
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3905/webofspiderman06018re2.jpg

Power Cosmic

Doom. With the Power Cosmic. I feel sick even having to defend his ability to use these powers. We've all seen it guys. Honestly, no need to defend this.

Summary

- Our team has assessed the situtation and gone on the offensive from the very beginning. The opposing teams have no been able to fully counter our beginning attacks [black hole, No contact zone, spacial wave, and magic attack with all three characters working together], instead trying to place doubt in our ability to complete our prep actions. Darth has shown that even without our enhancements, we would still dominate.

- Being energy weilders, they have an inherent weakness in having their energy absorbed.

- They really have no set battle plan. "uh...we attack?" is not an acceptable answer.

And since Smurph likes huge pictures, here's one for you Smurphy 🙂

It was just brought to my attention that one of my scans from my last post is broken. Where I'm defending "Transmute Eradicator with tech goodies" this is the scan showing our ability to reconfigure tech...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/silver_surfer_1987_005_21.jpg

I'm assuming corrections like this are allowed of course, but if there's a rule against one of the mods can just edit this post.

Good match all. Win or lose, as I told Blair, this is why I entered the tourney.

Haven't had a tourney match feel that satisfying in a while. Which sounds horribly nerdily, but whatevs haha.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Good match all. Win or lose, as I told Blair, this is why I entered the tourney.

Haven't had a tourney match feel that satisfying in a while. Which sounds horribly nerdily, but whatevs haha.

Yeah, I also want to say that I had fun debating with all parties present. Win or lose, it will be a positive experience for my first tournament.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, I also want to say that I had fun debating with all parties present. Win or lose, it will be a positive experience for my first tournament.

Trust me, you did good for a first timer. No really....most first timers suck. 😐

Sorry about my few posts. Life gets in the way of the important things like tournaments 😂

Good luck to all.

I've read the prep and battle a few times. Anything I didn't know offhand I had to look up in my comics.

The debates back and forth were pretty decent. I thought both teams did a good job of sparring and countering. Scans were applicable, for the most part, and in links or thumbnails. Also, there was a pleasant lack of personal digs in this match. Always appreciated.

I'll break this down the best I can. I've written down some notes as a reference so I can be succinct.

There's always a leap of faith in these tournaments. Using characters, meshing powers, etc. So I try to keep an open mind.

The good.
-I thought both teams did a decent job. There was some holes in explanations/proof but I thought each team countered any claims to the contrary well.

-DNA transfer/transmutation for teammates and memory/knowledge sharing are areas which get muddled. All in all, I bought that both teams could accomplish that feat as well. Again, a few holes but overall I bought it.

Team Smurph/JTB had a plan which was very simple and straight forward. There wasn't much in the way of speculation or any overreaching involved. Sersi is a character I'm overly familiar with and they provided enough scans and explanation for me.

Team Blair/Goober had a much more elaborate, multi-faceted plan involving several components. There was also scans available with good explanations. I was a bit more familiar overall with their team.

The bad.
Team Blair/Goober had one of the most complex prep plans I've personally read in a tournament. It was very imaginative. I did have a few problems however. I felt team Smurph/JTB brought up good points regarding some major parts of your plan. The time constraint of 5 minutes. Even with Surfer's speed and a Kryptonian's speed, I found it very hard to believe that your team could do everything in your prep within 5 minutes. I know they're fast and think extremely fast but I wasn't buying that they could do all that in 5 minutes. To recap they: transfer memories and knowledge, Sufer gives Doom a portion of the PC, transmute Doom to Kryptonian, create the sun lamps powerful enough to charge a Kryptonian (which wasn't really supported), add Doom's tech to Eradicator's tech, make energy absorbers, make psi blockers, make emotional manipulation machine, create magic/cosmic shield, make anti-black hole field, make force field nullifiers, make do not enter zone, cast Cyttorak Bands all in 5 minutes.

Originality
Blair/Goober - 4/5
Smurph/JTB - 3/5

Again, Blair & Goob had a very imaginative plan imo.

Effectiveness
Blair/Goob - 2/5
Smurph/JTB - 4/5

Smurph and JTB used blunt force trauma to it's best imo. The 5 minute prep time took away the effectiveness for team Blair/Goob.

Debating Skill
Blair/Goob - 3.5/5
Smurph/JKT - 3.5/5

The ugly. 😛
Vote for team Smurph/JTB.

Originally posted by Badabing

[b]Debating Skill
Blair/Goob - 3.5/5
Smurph/JKT - 3.5/5

[/B]

Originally posted by Starscream M
the debating skill score is out of 10 points. so I guess that translates to 7/10 for both teams.

Originally posted by Badabing
Wow, not only can you add decimals but you actually pieced together me using all 5's as my voting strategy. Congrats. 👆

I was just highlighting the scoring discrepancy with consistency in mind and so other judges are aware of the system thaKhan and batdude set in place. You don't want to end up with different variations in the case of a tie when we have to actually tally points to decide winner.

that was all. 😎

Originally posted by Starscream M
That sarcasm was uncalled for. 🤨

I was just highlighting the scoring discrepancy with consistency in mind and so other judges are aware of the system thaKhan and batdude set in place. You don't want to end up with different variations in the case of a tie when we have to actually tally points to decide winner.

that was all. 😎

😂