Originally posted by quanchi112
It's about what is more powerful not what can affect more universes. So what you are saying is despite what happens in the comics this feat is what you are going with. Ride this feat into the sunset, right?
Originally posted by Mr MasterFirst off, no. You haven't proven that at all. You can't ignore the obviously universal implications of the Infinity Sagas and project multiversal consonance from handbooks onto it. That doesn't work. At all. It makes what was stated and illustrated in the Infinity Sagas absurd.
The Eternity that showed up in the Defenders mini, is the same Eternity that showed up in the IG arc, and the same Eternity that Genis/Entropy remade, and the same Eternity that showed up in THOTI series.All were 616 Eternity.
And yes, all were definitely absolute Multiversal powers.
Originally posted by Mr MasterThis doesn't make sense. It's a complete sophistry that only you are able to explain your cosmological hierarchy and transplant multiversal ideas onto universal situations when it's convenient for you. 616 Galactus did not perform a multiversal surgery. Thanos w/ Cosmic Cube did not become the Multiverse. When Thanos conversed with his doppelganger that they retreat to another reality and retrieve an alternate IG and become god of that reality, they weren't lying to themselves when Magus w/ IG would have ruled all realities. Whenever an alternate IG wielder became supreme being in their respective reality, they didn't think to themselves, "Well... this only works if the 616 IG isn't assembled and in use..."
In fact, 616 Eternity contains the power of all Universes across the Multiverse.
(but 616 Eternity is not the Multiverse)
Originally posted by rotiartThe only ones prone to using excerpts of handbook sto override on-panel evidence is Mr Master. And I don't care what the handbooks say about Abraxas and the UN as if it were only universal. That contradicts what Reed himself said of the UN and the unequivocally multiversal relevance of the story. We all know that the multiverse was unravelling, merging and collapsing on-panel. If Reed says "everything," it's contradictory that he only referred to the 616 universe.
Since we are so prone to using excerpts, but not the full pages from the Official handbook lately... I'll post the entire pages. And give my take on all there is. . . ."Abraxas was kept in check throughout the multiverse by the existence of Galactus. With the death of Galactus on Earth-616, Abraxas was free to roam the dimensions, killing every version of Galactus he found." Abraxas returned to the 616 universe where Franklin and Valeria had resurrected 616 galactus, Reed UNed the universe itself, and when the universe was restored, Abraxas was nowhere to be found. Since that universe already had a galactus, and time was restored, Abraxas appears to have been confined once again.
THOTI>LT>IG>UN>Eternity . . .
P.S. The UN according to the handbook was manipulated by the IG... according to the comics, Magus's citadel had a barrier which he stated would have protected him from the UN, and it was only the interference of Kang, Doom and the Goddess, which caused him to fear the UN and then having to using the IG against the UN.
Time wasn't restored. Everything was not wrapped back neatly as if Galactus had never died in the first place. For one thing, Franklin Richards was still bereft of his powers and that occurred when he restored Galactus (which was AFTER Abraxas appeared). Valeria Richards was in an alternate reality and grew up to be a teenager under the tutelage of Roma when everyone thought she was stillborn. She ended up a fetus inside Sue Richards. So no, time wasn't simply restored. Otherwise, Franklin would have his powers and Valeria's history with Roma in an alternate universe would be intact. It isn't.
Manipulation doesn't presume superiority either. Otherwise Dr. Doom is more powerful than Silver Surfer. Or Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre. Manipulation can confirm superiority if there's an equal/superior feat in isolation to go in hand. But Dr. Doom in isolation has never equalled or surpassed Silver Surfer's power output. Neither has Black Alice in isolation equalled or surpassed Spectre's power output. The same holds for the IG and the UN.
Originally posted by quanchi112I can't believe you're still ranting on about Odin. Throw me a frikkin bone here.
That's odg's logic in a nutshell. What's worse is people are saying his logic has won this debate.
Originally posted by Omega VisionI guess the un is more powerful than anything or anyone who doesn't have a feat on this level? I guess Odin is more powerful than a Celestial because years later he affected the multiverse while I have never seen a Celestial do so. On panel comparisons don't count in this new street feat war you have accepted.
Not only did it effect more universes but it effected them all more extensively than the IG ever had. The IG never destroyed and recreated 616.
The feats are on.......burning, burning, burning.....the feats are on!!!!
Originally posted by OneDumbG0I won't throw you a bone. Do you understand the point I am making?
First off, no. You haven't proven that at all. You can't ignore the obviously universal implications of the Infinity Sagas and project multiversal consonance from handbooks onto it. That doesn't work. At all. It makes what was stated and illustrated in the Infinity Sagas absurd.
This doesn't make sense. It's a complete sophistry that only you are able to explain your cosmological hierarchy and transplant multiversal ideas onto universal situations when it's convenient for you. 616 Galactus did not perform a multiversal surgery. Thanos w/ Cosmic Cube did not become the Multiverse. When Thanos conversed with his doppelganger that they retreat to another reality and retrieve an alternate IG and become god of that reality, they weren't lying to themselves when Magus w/ IG would have ruled all realities. Whenever an alternate IG wielder became supreme being in their respective reality, they didn't think to themselves, "Well... this only works if the 616 IG isn't assembled and in use..." The only ones prone to using excerpts of handbook sto override on-panel evidence is Mr Master. And I don't care what the handbooks say about Abraxas and the UN as if it were only universal. That contradicts what Reed himself said of the UN and the unequivocally multiversal relevance of the story. We all know that the multiverse was unravelling, merging and collapsing on-panel. If Reed says "everything," it's contradictory that he only referred to the 616 universe.Time wasn't restored. Everything was not wrapped back neatly as if Galactus had never died in the first place. For one thing, Franklin Richards was still bereft of his powers and that occurred when he restored Galactus (which was AFTER Abraxas appeared). Valeria Richards was in an alternate reality and grew up to be a teenager under the tutelage of Roma when everyone thought she was stillborn. She ended up a fetus inside Sue Richards. So no, time wasn't simply restored. Otherwise, Franklin would have his powers and Valeria's history with Roma in an alternate universe would be intact. It isn't.
Manipulation doesn't presume superiority either. Otherwise Dr. Doom is more powerful than Silver Surfer. Or Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre. Manipulation can confirm superiority if there's an equal/superior feat in isolation to go in hand. But Dr. Doom in isolation has never equalled or surpassed Silver Surfer's power output. Neither has Black Alice in isolation equalled or surpassed Spectre's power output. The same holds for the IG and the UN. I can't believe you're still ranting on about Odin. Throw me a frikkin bone here.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0First off, no. You haven't proven that at all. You can't ignore the obviously universal implications of the Infinity Sagas and project multiversal consonance from handbooks onto it. That doesn't work. At all. It makes what was stated and illustrated in the Infinity Sagas absurd.
This doesn't make sense. It's a complete sophistry that only you are able to explain your cosmological hierarchy and transplant multiversal ideas onto universal situations when it's convenient for you. 616 Galactus did not perform a multiversal surgery. Thanos w/ Cosmic Cube did not become the Multiverse. When Thanos conversed with his doppelganger that they retreat to another reality and retrieve an alternate IG and become god of that reality, they weren't lying to themselves when Magus w/ IG would have ruled all realities. Whenever an alternate IG wielder became supreme being in their respective reality, they didn't think to themselves, "Well... this only works if the 616 IG isn't assembled and in use..." The only ones prone to using excerpts of handbook sto override on-panel evidence is Mr Master. And I don't care what the handbooks say about Abraxas and the UN as if it were only universal. That contradicts what Reed himself said of the UN and the unequivocally multiversal relevance of the story. We all know that the multiverse was unravelling, merging and collapsing on-panel. If Reed says "everything," it's contradictory that he only referred to the 616 universe.
The Infinity Being's power created all Realities (Marvel Omniverse)
The Infinity Being's power is the IG.
An Incomplete IG pwnd the UN with a thought. (on panel & in the Handbooks)
Every way we look at it, via statements/feats or direct confrontation between the two:
Incomplete IG (a taste of Godhood) >>> UN
IG (GODHOOD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UN
The UN is a joke next to the IG ... 😮💨
Originally posted by Mr Master
facepalmThe Infinity Being's power created all Realities (Marvel Omniverse)
The Infinity Being's power is the IG.
An Incomplete IG pwnd the UN with a thought. (on panel & in the Handbooks)
Every way we look at it, via statements/feats or direct confrontation between the two:
Incomplete IG (a taste of Godhood) >>> UN
IG (GODHOOD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UN
The UN is a joke next to the IG ... 😮💨
MM.
Say Reed gets the IG from the 616 Universe and goes to another Universe (say 7777) where he is challanged by a Reed wielding the IG of THAT Universe (7777).
Who would win in your opinion? Just curious.
Originally posted by quanchi112The term point presumes that you are using logic. You're not. Odin causing reverberations throughout the Multiverse doesn't suggest that he has the power to destroy/recreate the Marvel Multiverse. Stop harping about it.
I won't throw you a bone. Do you understand the point I am making?
Originally posted by Mr MasterActually, when you look at feats, the IG is a joke compared to the UN. Taking over one universe < destroying/recreating marvel Multiverse. Sorry you keep conveniently deflecting from that simple point.
Every way we look at it, via statements/feats or direct confrontation between the two:The UN is a joke next to the IG...
As for what feats are jokes... are you conveniently forgetting all the limitations a complete 616 IG has racked up? Not being able to penetrate Grandmaster's mind is definitely up there. Rune getting one-shotted by Silver Surfer? That was pretty hilarious. Nebula couldn't detect Adam Warlock even though all his compatriots were thinking aloud that he was right there? Maelstrom no-selling Thanos' IG blast and staying beyond his awareness? All direct applications of the 616 IG's power. Clearly god-like... as in not.
Of course, I'm sure there'll be a whole litany of excuses made, i.e., it wasn't the IG's fault or a limit on its power, it was the user's fault, etc. And of course, the question again will again be asked, "Then why wasn't it Quasar's fault that he got beaten, especially when the UN doesn't provide any sort of power-up, protection and indeed, is dangerous to its own wielder?" The mystery continues.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I guess the un is more powerful than anything or anyone who doesn't have a feat on this level? I guess Odin is more powerful than a Celestial because years later he affected the multiverse while I have never seen a Celestial do so. On panel comparisons don't count in this new street feat war you have accepted.The feats are on.......burning, burning, burning.....the feats are on!!!! I won't throw you a bone. Do you understand the point I am making?
I'm not arguing that just because something has a multiversal feat its automatically better than something that doesn't have one. If Odin had actually done something significant on a multiversal scale then he would be more powerful than a Celestial by feats but the fact is all he did was send ripples that only beings sensitive to such happenings could truly understand.
UN=Tsunami, Odin=small ripple. A ripple and a tsunami are in no way the same or comparable just because they both move water molecules just as the UN and Odin's death aren't comparable just because they both effect the multiverse. Scale matters.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Actually, when you look at feats, the IG is a joke compared to the UN. Taking over one universe < destroying/recreating marvel Multiverse. Sorry you keep conveniently deflecting from that simple point.
The Incomplete IG Magus wielded merged TWO entire separate UniverseS in an instant,
(616 & the Duplicate 616)
while he stood in yet ANOTHER completely separate entire Universe,
(where his stronghold was housed)
which Magus also controlled.
So that's at-least Universal control of three entire UniverseS.
That right there stomps your "taking over one universe" fallacy.
But that aside, we have the complete IG/Thanos
stomping the power of all UniverseS, which is 616 Eternity/Infinity,
Starlin decided to use Eternity as the sole representation of this power.
(just like the writers of the Dormy arc solely used Eternity to represent the same)
so .. it's not the first time this happens.
And if that wasn't enough, 😂
we know the IG is the power of the Infinity Being,
and the Infinity Being is the original creator of the Omniverse.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0As for what feats are jokes... are you conveniently forgetting all the limitations a complete 616 IG has racked up?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Not being able to penetrate Grandmaster's mind is definitely up there.
The 616 Gems were becoming sentient in that other Multiverse,
in fact,
they manipulated the entire situation including Loki/Grandmaster & Sersi
because their plan was to reform Nemesis.
(The Gems never wanted Loki to stay in power)
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Rune getting one-shotted by Silver Surfer?
That was pretty hilarious.
Again, the Gems were becoming sentient,
in fact, it was literally stated that the Gems (especially the Soul Gem)
was manipulating Rune into doing their bidding
(which was to return to the Multiverse that houses the Ultraverse)
Rune tried to resist the manipulation, but it only made Rune vulnerable,
then Silver Surfer (who also noticed Rune's struggle vs the IG he wore)
attacked Rune's hand and blew off the IG.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Nebula couldn't detect Adam Warlock even though all his compatriots were thinking aloud that he was right there?
Nebula was mentally unfit to harness the full power of the IG,
she had just remade herself from a chard zombie-like carcass.
In fact again, it was literally stated on panel,
that Thanos would've detected Warlock
stated by Warlock himself in Soul World when he spoke to Surfer.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Maelstrom no-selling Thanos' IG blast and staying beyond his awareness?
As for the "awareness" issue,
perhaps Thanos hadn't adapted fully at that point,
perhaps Maelstrom was so beneath Thanos that he didn't register,
perhaps being the Anomaly made Maelstrom special in that perspective.
But all in all, what freakin advantage does that give anyone,
who can't physically damage the IG wielder?
None whatsoever.
That aside,
Maelstrom literally stated that the IG was above the power he contained.
On top of that, it was a Quasar comic,
and Maestrom was developing his own story over there,
so, for the Quasar followers it was a way to show how powerful Maelstrom had become,
to show what Quasar was going to defeat.
Yes, Maelstrom was defeated, (in confrontation)
while NO ONE was able to come even close to defeating Thanos.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Of course, I'm sure there'll be a whole litany of excuses made, i.e., it wasn't the IG's fault or a limit on its power, it was the user's fault, etc.
You should've read more instead of just using art to define scenarios.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0And of course, the question again will again be asked, "Then why wasn't it Quasar's fault that he got beaten, especially when the UN doesn't provide any sort of power-up, protection and indeed, is dangerous to its own wielder?" The mystery continues.
Because Magus used his Incomplete IG on the UN, and not Quasar.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeMM.
Say Reed gets the IG from the 616 Universe and goes to another Universe (say 7777) where he is challanged by a Reed wielding the IG of THAT Universe (7777).
Who would win in your opinion? Just curious.
The other IGs I've seen were pathetic next to the 616 IG.
ie. Impossible Man had an alternate IG and was running scared from Eternity,
Surfer even confirmed that Eternity was coming to stomp the IG wielder.
Another time Surfer acquired the IG in another alternate universe,
and he wasn't even noticed/acknowledged by the Eternity of that Reality. 😂
Originally posted by Omega VisionNo, but the point is his feat was more impressive than anything done by a celestial to my knowledge as Odin has shown the power to affect the multiverse while they haven't. Your logic is multiversal always beats universal power which isn't the case at all.
You ignore the obvious gap in logic your argument introduces.I'm not arguing that just because something has a multiversal feat its automatically better than something that doesn't have one. If Odin had actually done something significant on a multiversal scale then he [B]would
be more powerful than a Celestial by feats but the fact is all he did was send ripples that only beings sensitive to such happenings could truly understand.UN=Tsunami, Odin=small ripple. A ripple and a tsunami are in no way the same or comparable just because they both move water molecules just as the UN and Odin's death aren't comparable just because they both effect the multiverse. Scale matters. [/B]
Originally posted by Mr MasterExactly, and people forget we don't give alternate versions of Galactus the same weight as 616 so why should we create all ig's as near equals. It's picking and choosing by the side who really wants the un to seem more powerful when in truth it just isn't.
616 IG is above the rest,
the rest are just facsimiles of the 616 IG.The other IGs I've seen were pathetic next to the 616 IG.
ie. Impossible Man had an alternate IG and was running scared from Eternity,
Surfer even confirmed that Eternity was coming to stomp the IG wielder.Another time Surfer acquired the IG in another alternate universe,
and he wasn't even noticed/acknowledged by the Eternity of that Reality. 😂
Originally posted by OneDumbG0I am addressing your logic though. It has nothing to do with which is more powerful but more or less in your words multiversal always means more powerful than universal when this just isn't the case.
The term point presumes that you are using logic. You're not. Odin causing reverberations throughout the Multiverse doesn't suggest that he has the power to destroy/recreate the Marvel Multiverse. Stop harping about it. Actually, when you look at feats, the IG is a joke compared to the UN. Taking over one universe < destroying/recreating marvel Multiverse. Sorry you keep conveniently deflecting from that simple point.As for what feats are jokes... are you conveniently forgetting all the limitations a complete 616 IG has racked up? Not being able to penetrate Grandmaster's mind is definitely up there. Rune getting one-shotted by Silver Surfer? That was pretty hilarious. Nebula couldn't detect Adam Warlock even though all his compatriots were thinking aloud that he was right there? Maelstrom no-selling Thanos' IG blast and staying beyond his awareness? All direct applications of the 616 IG's power. Clearly god-like... as in not.
Of course, I'm sure there'll be a whole litany of excuses made, i.e., it wasn't the IG's fault or a limit on its power, it was the user's fault, etc. And of course, the question again will again be asked, "Then why wasn't it Quasar's fault that he got beaten, especially when the UN doesn't provide any sort of power-up, protection and indeed, is dangerous to its own wielder?" The mystery continues.
I see you didn't address my post ODG.
1. Again you attack Quan but don't even use his correct argument and analogy because it doesn't fit your fallacy. You use that fallacy that a multiversal feat means your superior. Well first, as I've shown that isn't true in the least. There are many areas which a term SUPERIOR is used to define. Spiderman is superior and flying around and shooting web than Wolverine.. Yet wolverine is superior in other ways. The UN haveing ONE on panel feet in ONE specific area (erasing and recreating the multiverse) does make it superior to the IG. The IG also has areas its superior to the UN at and actually more. So again.. your throwing around the word superior when as I've shown that is relative and subjecting and doesn't just encompass the one area you would like it to.
2. As I've also shown one feat doesn't make something superior just because its scale was bigger. The example quan uses is that.. Odin has effected the multiverse (NOT what you keep trying to deflect and use a fallacy and say he's saying Odin can recreate the multiverse) No he's simply saying Odin has effected the Multiverse. Period. Fact. A Celestial has not effected the Multiverse in battle. Very simple and very sound and shows why your argument is unsound and illogical. UN has a multiversal feat the IG doesn't.. Just like Odin has a multiversal feat that a celestial doesn't. Yet we know Odin is like a fly to a celestial because of a direct confrontation between the two with Odin amped. Hmmmm seem very similar to the situation we have between the UN and IG. The IG doesn't have the multiversal scale feat the UN does... Yet, it has been shown IMO to be at the very least Multi-Universal and really multiversal. I and other have given examples why which are on panel facts. However, the other key similarity is that the IG has wtfpwned the UN "with but a thought" That is how easy it was. This was an incomplete IG even and it was that easy. Anyways that is the point Quan was making. However I'm sure you'll come back with ooooo Odin can't erase or recreate the multiverse lol lol.
3. Furthermore I've given more examples of how one feat doesn't make someone superior. Reed has a exponentially greater mind feat than Doom, yet has handled himself very well one v one against Reed. Thus, I don't say Reed is exponentially greater than Doom just because of ONE feat. Wolverine has mroe strength feats than Sabertooth.. yet in one v one encounters Sabertooth seems the stronger of the two. That is exactly why I don't consider the strength feats of Wolverine and lack of sabertooth's as proof of anything. Hulk, Supes, Thor etc etc have more strength feats than Thanos.. By your logic that makes them superior because after all its ONE area..However, logic tell us to call something superior should mean someone or something is superior in many areas not just one. Point being those listed have exponentially greater strength feats than Thanos.. Yet we don't consider them stronger.. Hmmmm I wonder why... Well because in a direct ONE v ONE encounter Thanos wtf pwns them. Is this starting to register?
If you would just admit that one feet in one area doesn't make somethign or someone superior we would be done. It could make something superior but there are many factors that need to be looked at to really make a educated guess on that. You would even admit that using one feat in one area only doesn't mean somethign is superior. That is exactly the fallacy you keep perpetuating, and won't even admit that isn't really sound logic nor true in many situations. Maybe in this it is but there is also a equally strong possibility it doesn't.
Jesus I just reread the malibu crossover concerning nemesis...
That was pure garbage reading...
In any case
infinity being was the only one in the universe When it existed
nemesis was descibed as the unparalleled force for creation
and that it was the ego gem that was operating system that brought out the full power of the other gems
in comics noone mentions the ego gem anymore
and personally i think on panel feats show
infinity being > nemesis seeing you couldn't just swing a sword to disrupt the gems
nemesis > infinity gauntlet because nemesis basically says that was the irst time the full power of the gems were brought together
nemesis was described as a creator of universes
ig described as making u supreme being of your universe
and that nothing in this universe dare challenge your claim
thanos says that if he goes enough realities away he can rind another ig to be god of that universe and also to escape the magus reach
also the sentience displayed by the gems hasn't really been displayed again since the Malibu issues... Which is the reason I thought of it as being uncanon
in any case while I think the ig makes you supreme of a universe I don't see it being as powerful as nemesis...
And I disagree that the ig in 616 is proven to be more powerful than other igs it's an assumption...
And I also disagree with the notion that 616 eternity is all other eternities combined.
It even says inhis bio that he was created with our universe and that each universe has it's own eternity. The official bios I read, I have 06 not 08 though.... Did not even mention a multiversal eternity...
I'm guessing you have the proof/ scans showing that any showing of 616 eternity is a showing of the multiverse eternity?
Originally posted by rotiart
Jesus I just reread the malibu crossover concerning nemesis...
That was pure garbage reading...In any case
infinity being was the only one in the universe When it existed
nemesis was descibed as the unparalleled force for creation
and that it was the ego gem that was operating system that brought out the full power of the other gemsin comics noone mentions the ego gem anymore
and personally i think on panel feats show
infinity being > nemesis seeing you couldn't just swing a sword to disrupt the gems
nemesis > infinity gauntlet because nemesis basically says that was the irst time the full power of the gems were brought togethernemesis was described as a creator of universes
ig described as making u supreme being of your universe
and that nothing in this universe dare challenge your claim
thanos says that if he goes enough realities away he can rind another ig to be god of that universe and also to escape the magus reachalso the sentience displayed by the gems hasn't really been displayed again since the Malibu issues... Which is the reason I thought of it as being uncanon
in any case while I think the ig makes you supreme of a universe I don't see it being as powerful as nemesis...
And I disagree that the ig in 616 is proven to be more powerful than other igs it's an assumption...
And I also disagree with the notion that 616 eternity is all other eternities combined.It even says inhis bio that he was created with our universe and that each universe has it's own eternity. The official bios I read, I have 06 not 08 though.... Did not even mention a multiversal eternity...
I'm guessing you have the proof/ scans showing that any showing of 616 eternity is a showing of the multiverse eternity?
^ Thanos himself stated on-panel that if he went to another alternate universe and got that alternate IG, he'd become god of that alternate universe. Which is completely contradictory to your suggestion that 616 IG makes you god of the multiverse.
Originally posted by Mr MasterProve the Eternity that showed up in the Infinity Sagas was multiversal. You can't. You know that if you do, you end up with ridiculous ramifications such that 616 Galactus now performs multiversal surgery, etc.
You can keep posting this outright lie all you wish, makes no diff to me.
Originally posted by Mr MasterThe incomplete IG was shown to be operational in another universe =/= being god of that universe.
The Incomplete IG Magus wielded merged TWO entire separate UniverseS in an instant, (616 & the Duplicate 616) while he stood in yet ANOTHER completely separate entire Universe, (where his stronghold was housed) which Magus also controlled.So that's at-least Universal control of [b]three
entire UniverseS.That right there stomps your "taking over one universe" fallacy.
[/b]
Standing in universe X, while manipulating another universe Y, doesn't mean you have control over universes X and Y. That's preposterous.
Sure and then you wake up.
Originally posted by Mr MasterHad Loki pulled the info of where the Ego Gem was from Grandmaster and obtained it straight away, Nemesis would have been reformed. Hence, there is no need for your convoluted conspiracy theory to justify a meandering excuse for the IG's limitations. Grandmaster was simply immune. On-panel.
The 616 Gems were becoming sentient in that other Multiverse, in fact, they manipulated the entire situation including Loki/Grandmaster & Sersi because their plan was to reform Nemesis.
Originally posted by Mr MasterYes, they were becoming sentient, and they wanted Rune to head back to the Ultraverse as their host, which is what Rune was doing up until Silver Surfer one-shotted him. I don't recall where Rune resisted, thus depowering him or making him vulnerable.
Unbelievable that you're bringing that up, now I know that you looked at the pretty pictures and decided not to read.Again, the Gems were becoming sentient, in fact, it was literally stated that the Gems (especially the Soul Gem) was manipulating Rune into doing their bidding (which was to return to the Multiverse that houses the Ultraverse) Rune tried to resist the manipulation, but it only made Rune vulnerable, then Silver Surfer (who also noticed Rune's struggle vs the IG he wore) attacked Rune's hand and blew off the IG.
Originally posted by Mr MasterGuess simple possession of the IG doesn't automatically make you god of your universe. Oh well.
Nebula was mentally unfit to harness the full power of the IG, she had just remade herself from a chard zombie-like carcass.In fact again, it was literally stated on panel, [b]that Thanos would've detected Warlock
stated by Warlock himself in Soul World when he spoke to Surfer. [/b]
Originally posted by Mr MasterOr he was just beyond the IG's power, which is what the plain presentation of the panels suggests AND more importantly, that Thanos had no idea who he was, how he came by his attributes and whether it ever happened in the first place.
First off, Oblivion can re-create any being in Reality that gets annihilated, if Thanos disintegrated Maelstrom (as the scene suggests) it could very well be that Oblivion simply threw him back into reality.
Originally posted by Mr MasterWho says we're pitting Maelstrom against Thanos w/ IG? We're just listing the 616 IG's limitations, as shown, on-panel.
But all in all, what freakin advantage does that give anyone, who can't physically damage the IG wielder?None whatsoever.
Originally posted by Mr MasterHandbook nonsense aside, of course now you're just solidifying your opinion that Dr. Doom is more powerful than Surfer and Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre. Good show. Anything to make the IG more than it was, right?
Because Magus used his Incomplete IG on the UN, and not Quasar.
Originally posted by quanchi112No, when you destroy/recreate the multiverse, that is always more powerful than taking over a single universe. Nobody gives two craps about Odin in this thread. Seriously.
I am addressing your logic though. It has nothing to do with which is more powerful but more or less in your words multiversal always means more powerful than universal when this just isn't the case.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiWhat post? The long-winded one where you suggest that if one person lifts 1,000,000 tons and another lifts 100 tons, that comparing the two isn't proof that one is proven to be stronger as of this moment? No matter how you try to state it, that's what it comes down to. That when you have a quantifiably measurable comparison, 6 ft. tall compared to 4 ft. tall, you cannot conclude that the the 6 ft. tall person is taller, simply because maybe, somehow... you never know until you give him the chance... the 4 ft. person could, maybe, possibly, get taller. Give me a break.
I see you didn't address my post ODG.
If you use the negative proof fallacy that 616 IG could instantly destroy/recreate the Marvel Multiverse, fine. 616 UN could destroy/recreate all comic company multiverses/omniverses instantly. After all, the 616 UN never tried. Y'know the alternative to hyperbolic, speculative what-if fantasies? On-panel proof. Stick with it.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No, when you destroy/recreate the multiverse, that is always more powerful than taking over a single universe. Nobody gives two craps about Odin in this thread. Seriously. What post? The long-winded one where you suggest that if one person lifts 1,000,000 tons and another lifts 100 tons, that comparing the two isn't proof that one is proven to be stronger as of this moment? No matter how you try to state it, that's what it comes down to. That when you have a quantifiably measurable comparison, 6 ft. tall compared to 4 ft. tall, you cannot conclude that the the 6 ft. tall person is taller, simply because maybe, somehow... you never know until you give him the chance... the 4 ft. person could, maybe, possibly, get taller. Give me a break.If you use the negative proof fallacy that 616 IG could instantly destroy/recreate the Marvel Multiverse, fine. 616 UN could destroy/recreate all comic company multiverses/omniverses instantly. After all, the 616 UN never tried. Y'know the alternative to hyperbolic, speculative what-if fantasies? On-panel proof. Stick with it.
horrible examples n more fallacies. I have already proven my case with numerous examples that are similar and much more so than ur extreme one sided examples. I have shown how one feat doesnt make someone or something superior. Supplied other of comparative examples that make that unsound logic. Whats worse is u throw around the word superior when in fact it was shown to be only superior in that one area. One area hardly encompasses a term like overall superior. As i have also shown how the IG is superior along with other examples in comics. What is futher worse is u come with a red herring again and say.. oooo u think the IG can recreate the multiverse after i specifically said that is quan point and i have said over n over i dont think it could.. yet u did again.... awesome
^ You haven't shown anything. Somebody throws a ball 1,000,000 miles. The other guy throws it 100 miles. Exponential difference. You can conclude that at this moment, the other guy can throw it farther... because in fact... he has thrown it farther... exponentially farther.
You're suggesting that because of purple prose or through rampant speculation, this simple conclusion is somehow thrown into doubt. That's preposterous. This isn't a fallacy. It's common sense. I don't care how you equivocate over the term "superior." I've only argued that the UN has demonstrated a "superior scope of power" or that it is "more powerful." Take whatever solace you can find in purple prose of "being god of your universe," "infinite power," etc. if that helps you sleep better at night.
We both know which artifact has demonstrated a greater scope of power to an exponential degree. Arguing over terminology doesn't change that quantitiative comparison.
we Know thoti Was as powerful as it was because it is the power of toaa... And even lt was defeated.. The only time in marvel history to have ever occured
and the lt only interferes if requested by that universe's abstracts and/or he sees that the problem will grow multiversal...
And he is the supreme being of his universe and yet is referred to as "god" warlock states that toaa is greater than even "gods"
warlocks situation was not unique
thanos himself claims getting a ig in another reality would make him a god also... Thanos himself shows the first idea that igs across the multiverse have the same level of power... And who better to ask than thanos...
Warlock was omnipotent... But after losing the ig questions how omnipotent he really was.
And you don't mention my argument that using feats For the ig for nemesis which is completion of the infinity gems is a fallacy when it's the ego gem as the operating system that gives nemesis "unparalleled" power
an