Cassandra Cain vs Wolverine

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
I change my mind: I give Wolverine 10/10, if he's using is full abilities.

I don't see how Cass could come up winning against a faster, more skilled, much more stronger and infinitely more tougher. And with a crazy ass healing factor.

How does strength or skill factor in when she can instinctively counter his every move. It's just plain idiocy to claim that his claws would do a lot of damage when what you should actually be focusing on, is making a case for how the hell he would ever touch her 😐

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Then you need to open your eyes.

How does strength or skill factor in when she can instinctively counter his every move. It's just plain idiocy to claim that his claws would do a lot of damage when what you should actually be focusing on, is making a case for how the hell he would ever touch her 😐

So she untouchable? Dident she stated that she has problems even reading true superhumans movements such as DS becuase there song (how she frazes it) moves to faster and to loud. Also in not instinctive, she simply reads her opponents body language. DD has the similar ability, but Wolverine had no problem tagging him. Spiderman has true pre cog and superhuman stats and Wolverines taggs him. He also tag numerous telepaths and even fought an assassin who was trained to kill him who had suit that amp her stats 10 times there normal levels and negated his senses to a point and still he tagged and defeated her, and she was a telepath. Find it very hard believe some one who not even a true superhuman as stated on pannel is going to be remained untouched by Wolverine

Couple of things.

- DD's abilities are far different.
- Spider-man's precog is completely different. You're comparing an alarm bell to being able to see what people are about to do, 's stupid.
- Wow, assassins/no relevance.
- Wow, telepathy/no relevance.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Couple of things.

- DD's abilities are far different.
- Spider-man's precog is completely different. You're comparing an alarm bell to being able to see what people are about to do, 's stupid.
- Wow, assassins/no relevance.
- Wow, telepathy/no relevance.

Actaully Spidersense tells him the type of attack it even stated in his explantion on pannel and it dirrectly linked to his reflexes.

Actaully they are quite relevent. Telepath know what move ones going to make before they do. It superior form of body reading. Assassin is quite relevent. She was a telepath who had a suit which negated his senses and amp her stats 10 fold and she was train specifically to take him out for all the god it did her/

Originally posted by The Pict
It wasn't that she was enhanced IIRC. Didn't they (whomever they were) say what she was doing in the fight was all what a human could do but what was imossible was that she was doing it at the same time. Really this just means they haven't studied the likes of Batgirl, Batman, Robin before.

These were groups of scientists who study metahumans, and she's pretty physically impressive even for the crew she runs with (especially in speed). And both her body chemistry and brain are off- she does have a deathstroke-esque 'use more of her brain for the task than normal' thing going on.

Battlehammer
Hell Wolverine face off against and done better against more top tier fighters then she has.

Batgirl beats Shiva (who has fought pretty much everyone), draws against Deathstroke, has an edge against Batman, beats Black Canary, beats David Cain, beats Ravager, Bronze Tiger acknowledges her as a superior fighter.

I mean, she is pretty much acknowledged as the best in DC and has beaten and even killed one of the best top tier fighters. Her experience is being trained in a bunker by a top-tier from birth then fighting and learning from almost every top-tier of note in DC (and note with her intuitive abilities, that means she has the style of pretty much every top-tier of note in DC).

So she untouchable? Dident she stated that she has problems even reading true superhumans movements such as DS becuase there song (how she frazes it) moves to faster and to loud.

Yes, it makes it harder, though it's still doable (I think it had to do with his 90% brain thing too). And yet, she still avoided pretty much everything he threw. Remember, the language reading is a bonus on top of top-tier level skill, she can still predict someone the way that Taskmaster or other top-tier fighters do too.

Originally posted by Q99
These were groups of scientists who study metahumans, and she's pretty physically impressive even for the crew she runs with (especially in speed). And both her body chemistry and brain are off- she does have a deathstroke-esque 'use more of her brain for the task than normal' thing going on.

Never said she was not impressive

Originally posted by Q99
Batgirl beats Shiva (who has fought pretty much everyone), draws against Deathstroke, has an edge against Batman, beats Black Canary, beats David Cain, beats Ravager, Bronze Tiger acknowledges her as a superior fighter.

Originally posted by Q99
I mean, she is pretty much acknowledged as the best in DC and has beaten and even killed one of the best top tier fighters. Her experience is being trained in a bunker by a top-tier from birth then fighting and learning from almost every top-tier of note in DC (and note with her intuitive abilities, that means she has the style of pretty much every top-tier of note in DC).

Wolverien trained for 100 plus years and has trained with the top of the top. Even uber tier guys like Ogun.

no it does not mean she has the style of every perosn in DC unless she displayed being able to mimic them it nothing more then wishful thinking, even mimicing so one does not mean you can uses there style like they can.

Originally posted by Q99

Yes, it makes it harder, though it's still doable (I think it had to do with his 90% brain thing too).

Originally posted by Q99

And yet, she still avoided pretty much everything he threw. Remember, the language reading is a bonus on top of top-tier level skill, she can still predict someone the way that Taskmaster or other top-tier fighters do too.

DD can do that, wolverine show the ability two, elektra can, stick, ogun, echo ect.

Nothing new to Wolverine.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
DD ability tells him what attack is coming. It very similar actaully except he can due it from 360 digree angle when she relies on sight.

Actaully Spidersense tells him the type of attack it even stated in his explantion on pannel and it dirrectly linked to his reflexes.

Actaully they are quite relevent. Telepath know what move ones going to make before they do. It superior form of body reading. Assassin is quite relevent. She was a telepath who had a suit which negated his senses and amp her stats 10 fold and she was train specifically to take him out for all the god it did her/

- Yes, a sonar. Not the same as being able to predict attacks. Seeing an attack is not pre-dicting it. This is really, really basic stuff.

- It does not always tell him what type of attack it is. The spider-sense has gone off a million times without him knowing what kind of attack is going. Actually, this seems to be pretty much a lie, as it goes against years and years of spidey comics. It's an alarm telling him that there's danger about. Close, but not the same.

- I'm having a hard time understanding your english here, but I'll give it a whirl. Telepaths can not know what someone is about to do before they do it, only if a person spends a long time planning their moves. Experienced fighters do not do this. If you're referring to the Mr.X incident then Wolverine was destroyed.

- Still of absolutely no relevance. She can't predict Wolverine's moves and is of no relevance to Cassandra Cain's case.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
- Yes, a sonar. Not the same as being able to predict attacks. Seeing an attack is not pre-dicting it. This is really, really basic stuff.

actaully it does it been stated many times on pannel that he senses the tensing of muscles and the attack before they happen, which one of the reasons he easily taken out capt before.

-

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
-It does not always tell him what type of attack it is. The spider-sense has gone off a million times without him knowing what kind of attack is going. Actually, this seems to be pretty much a lie, as it goes against years and years of spidey comics. It's an alarm telling him that there's danger about. Close, but not the same.

-

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I'm having a hard time understanding your english here, but I'll give it a whirl. Telepaths can not know what someone is about to do before they do it, only if a person spends a long time planning their moves. Experienced fighters do not do this. If you're referring to the Mr.X incident then Wolverine was destroyed.

I was not talking about mister X/ Wolverien beat x twice and X only took Wolverine down after he fought an army of guys and three world class assassins and was far form 100 [ercent before the fight started.

-

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Still of absolutely no relevance. She can't predict Wolverine's moves and is of no relevance to Cassandra Cain's case.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully it does it been stated many times on pannel that he senses the tensing of muscles and the attack before they happen, which one of the reasons he easily taken out capt before.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
It also told him the type of attack numerous times. The explanation of his power is that it tells him what attack is coming and even the level of danger. I can go find the scan if you really want it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Nor does her power. SHe reads there body langauge to figure out what attack there going to launch. Telepathy is even superior because it reads the person mind and tells them what attack si coming before the person even goes to make the attack. Most fight plann there attack several steps a head.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I was not talking about mister X/ Wolverien beat x twice and X only took Wolverine down after he fought an army of guys and three world class assassins and was far form 100 [ercent before the fight started.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully she can predict his moves she straight up stated it.

I responsed later because I gotta sleep, but do you gotta be such an ass hole all the time? could you try not being so insulting 24/7?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I responsed later because I gotta sleep, but do you gotta be such an ass hole all the time? could you try not being so insulting 24/7?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
His brain would have nothing to do with it and normal humans uses 100% of there brain. It be his movements and speed which she stated.

I know they do in real life, but in comics he has a super-brain that works better.

She also stated that he holds back against her and toys with her.

And she disarmed him and had a sword to his face in that one. The first fight was not toying, no hits, and the third fight, again a draw.

DD can do that, wolverine show the ability two, elektra can, stick, ogun, echo ect.

Nothing new to Wolverine.

Well, yea, but those people are a close match even with that. Echo's a close fight for Logan, when they fought it was hard. Echo + move reading + 'mentally impossible' aggregate speed = doing better than Echo. And Cass, quite frankly, has a better collection of styles she's copied too.

Of course it's nothing new to Logan, it's still martial arts related powers. I'm not saying she'll blow over him or anything. I'm saying in fighting, she's at a slightly higher level due to these abilities. It's not the novelty of these abilities that are helpful, it's the fighting level they put her at. If you take top-tier fighting and add a power or two, then it's better than top-tier fighting alone.

You've pointed out that Logan can beat each component of Cass individually. Which, yea, is true, and if Cassandra had only top-tier fighting, only move-reading, or only style-copying/reading, she'd be at a disadvantage. But that doesn't mean the combination of all three doesn't have an edge against him, and those people who are closest to this combination, like say Elektra (who has top tier fighting + mental powers/chi), tend to do really well against him.

Pointing out how Logan does against people who just have a prediction ability, but otherwise doesn't hold a candle to top-tiers in fighting skill, is not the same as showing how he'd do against Cass.

lmfao, do you two actually believe that normal humans use 100% of their brain? the fact that humans only use a very small percentage is not a myth spawned by comics 😐

It's about 10% or something in that area. Not very high at all.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
lmfao, do you two actually believe that normal humans use 100% of their brain? the fact that humans only use a very small percentage is not a myth spawned by comics 😐

Well, we do and we don't. There's no part which isn't used regularly, and of course when we're not talking we're not using the speech center and similar. We use only some of it at a time, except in one specific case: A seizure, where everything activates and nothing functions.

Not using a part of the brain is akin to the empty space between cars in a road. Use a road 100% and there's no room to move cars around any more. It's not like comics and such portray in that there's no stuff to 'unlock'. No, we're using it pretty optimally, just low enough to prevent 'traffic jams'.

What it means is different than what it sounds like it does, in other words. Through a given day, you'll use near-100% of your brain, but using 100% of your brain at once would actually be bad.

(Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10%25_of_brain_myth )

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I think me and capt can take this to the battlezone.

Originally posted by Q99
Well, we do and we don't. There's no part which isn't used regularly, and of course when we're not talking we're not using the speech center and similar. We use only some of it at a time, except in one specific case: A seizure, where everything activates and nothing functions.

Not using a part of the brain is akin to the empty space between cars in a road. Use a road 100% and there's no room to move cars around any more. It's not like comics and such portray in that there's no stuff to 'unlock'. No, we're using it pretty optimally, just low enough to prevent 'traffic jams'.

What it means is different than what it sounds like it does, in other words. Through a given day, you'll use near-100% of your brain, but using 100% of your brain at once would actually be bad.

(Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10%25_of_brain_myth )

the short version is, humans can't actually control the use of 100% of there brain, ie the subconscious, musle memory/ memory type stuff.

this is another case where superior skill cannot compensate for meta-human abilities. wolverine: too fast, too strong, healing factor, lethal claws..........done deal.

logan 10/10

dont forget the arguable superior skills part... since aside from having meta stats he is also a highly skill MA'er comparable to her... add the attributes its a wash.