Originally posted by dadudemon
If it is data, it can be hacked/understood with time.
So in ten minutes he learned an a programming language designed by aliens and with no knowledge of how their computers are protected designed a virus that would disrupt systems of an alien spacecraft he knew almost nothing about and uploaded it onto a computer designed by aliens?
That's well beyond supergenius. His brain should have collapsed into a black hole.
Originally posted by Robtardno. it uses extremely powerful frequences that it sends into the earth and in time it affects the plates. theres really nothing high tech about it
Or people can apply reason and deduce that the US doesn't really have the Earthquake-O-Matic, as it would require super-massive amounts of energy to power, let alone the technology to create it in the first place.Edit. Strike out that second part, the US does have the technology, as the 1947 Roswell space-craft has been successfully reverse-engineered.
Originally posted by dadudemon
If that were true, then they wouldn't have been able to repair that small fighter craft.Since they did do it, they literally had a "working knowledge" of the technology.
No it wasn't. I already explained why. In fact, more than one person on Earth should have been able to do that. Tons, actually.
If it is data, it can be hacked/understood with time.
Na dude, what I said. Data said the ship was inoperable until very recent, as they couldn't replicate the energy source, so any of the computer programs in the ship would have only been available to the human scientist for a very short time.
Being able to solder a motherboard, doesn't mean that person knows how to program or hack the operating system on the computer. Poor comparison.
It's not just "data", it's alien data, for all we know, they don't use Ones and Zeros.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, the premise was Jeff Goldblum's character was literally the only one of the planet to decipher the alien communication based on math. He's supposed to be a super genius and a "one of a kind" human.If he could slightly figure out the alien code..aka, decrypt/decipher, then from there, it would be as simple as syntax. It actually would only need to be as simple as creating a virus that attacked their systems ability to operate their shields. Jeff's character got decades of information from their scientists, as well. They had figured things out to such a point that they almost completely figured out the controls. Knowing that, it is as simple as designing a virus that takes down the system for the shields.
It's also possible that the system for the shields was very simplistic, making it a much more logical choice for attack.
The aliens obviously had far superior technology...based slightly on organics. However, they may not have anything remotely related to computer viruses in their society. For all we know, it is a completely foreign concept. Since the movie portrayed it as such, we have no choice but to accept that the aliens were not used to the human form of computer viruses.
I remember Siskel and Ebert criticizing the crap out of ID4 because of the dogfight with Will Smith. They were saying it was illogical or unlikely that an alien species with superior technology, would have a dog fight with our primitive fighter jets. That doesn't bode well with me. The shielding technology on those fighters was intelligent in that, it permitted objects/energies below certain velocities/yields, but blocked anything above certain threshholds. That's fairly advanced AND quick technolgy. It makes sense that an alien force that is accostumed to wiping out the indigenous sapients would use smaller ships that are quick and nimble: it would make it much easier to wipe them out from the air and then clean up with ground units, just like in the film.
you're awesome, dude. 😂 Not only are you willing to feed a joke with an in depth study but you actually go one better and try to defend the ridiculous writing in, ID4.
Personally, i think, Jeff Goldblum could do anything. I think devising a virus that renders alien technology useless is nothing compared to his true potential.
The problem i have with that movie is not that, Jeff Goldblum was the smartest man alive, but rather everyone else in the movie was dumb as dog shit. I would hope that the scientists first priority would be trying to figure out how to disable, block or slow the aliens signals. Apparently, though, the Governments smartest minds were all pre-occupied with trying to figure out how to turn a rogue spaceship on.
The fact that the Aliens needed to engage in a dog fight is definitely stupid. It makes absolutely no sense what so ever. I don't have a problem with this because it's a movie and it served as some memorable action scenes but if you're going to look at it seriously it just makes no sense. The logical thing for the aliens to do would be to simply keep dropping bombs or launching attacks from behind the safety of their impervious mother ships. Had the movie been written by a good writer. The Alien ships wouldn't have been deployed until the Aliens shields were defeated.
As for the Virus thing. That was never to much of a problem for me. It's really not that ridiculous. What was ridiculous is how little time and explanation was spent on that revelation. Even though it seems complete idiotic that such a technological advanced species could be duped by a primitive computer virus it reminded me of, War of the Worlds. Such an intelligent species didn't even bother to check the atmosphere and what kind of bacteria inhabited, Earth. Seriously, though, those aliens didn't have a firewall? 😂
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
you're awesome, dude. 😂 Not only are you willing to feed a joke with an in depth study but you actually go one better and try to defend the ridiculous writing in, ID4.
lulz
It's called...I support a large portion of users in DC, so I didn't have much to do yesterday. 😄
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Personally, i think, Jeff Goldblum could do anything. I think devising a virus that renders alien technology useless is nothing compared to his true potential.
Especially if he was the ONLY one to figure out the "code." You know, something that not even the "smartest" scientists in the world at Area 51 couldn't figure out.
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
The problem i have with that movie is not that, Jeff Goldblum was the smartest man alive, but rather everyone else in the movie was dumb as dog shit. I would hope that the scientists first priority would be trying to figure out how to disable, block or slow the aliens signals. Apparently, though, the Governments smartest minds were all pre-occupied with trying to figure out how to turn a rogue spaceship on.
It was only the US government trying to figure out the alien technology, and it was for decades that they were trying to do it. And, jamming the alien signals would have been impossible as they took over the entire satellite network and then some. Not such "global" jamming device exists, nor could it exist due to the power requirement and multiple locations.
Their first and only priority whould have been saving as many lives as possible.
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
The fact that the Aliens needed to engage in a dog fight is definitely stupid. It makes absolutely no sense what so ever. I don't have a problem with this because it's a movie and it served as some memorable action scenes but if you're going to look at it seriously it just makes no sense. The logical thing for the aliens to do would be to simply keep dropping bombs or launching attacks from behind the safety of their impervious mother ships. Had the movie been written by a good writer. The Alien ships wouldn't have been deployed until the Aliens shields were defeated.
Not at all. The "maga" blaster worked in a "blast radius" that was circular. The ships were slow moving, and it took time to charge the blaster. It would be quite difficult to take out highly mobile targets like the fighter jets. If they sent in their ground troops to finish the human genocide, they would have lost many lives to the mobile fighter jets..and other types of mobile war machines. The most effective option/choice would be a mobile fighter that not only flies, but has it's own shielding technology.
Their mobile fighters were piloted by the aliens. Will Smith was one of the very best fighter pilots, so the probability that his character would encounter a fighter and it end up in a dog fight is really high. The fact that Will outsmarted the alien fighter with superior flying skills should not be a suprise due to both pilots being...organic.
One thing I liked and picked up on about the aliens is a difference in the type of technologies we had. The aliens had to use OUR network for that communication. Something tells me the aliens weren't too big into wireless data. Else they pilot their own ships and fighters? 😄
They focused on high defenses, but dumb offensive weapons (meaning, no smart guided stuff, it was straight line for their "green sh*t."
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
As for the Virus thing. That was never to much of a problem for me. It's really not that ridiculous. What was ridiculous is how little time and explanation was spent on that revelation. Even though it seems complete idiotic that such a technological advanced species could be duped by a primitive computer virus it reminded me of, War of the Worlds. Such an intelligent species didn't even bother to check the atmosphere and what kind of bacteria inhabited, Earth. Seriously, though, those aliens didn't have a firewall? 😂
Exactly. It would be foolish to think that an alien sapients would have the same exact concepts of computing as we do. Their species obviously works much more closely together than ours does. They were highly coordinated and never once did we see disodence from their groups, but we see quite a bit from the humans. If you have such a "hive mind" species, something like "hacking" or even stealing may seem completely foreign.
What I see in the film is a very intelligent depiction of what an invading alien species would be like. The first time I watched the film, I saw many things that I had read or heard about the potential sociology and technololgy from an alien species.
An advanved alien species would not necessarily be benevolent and loving to others, but they may be very "cooperative" with each other. Their technologies would not develop in the same paths as ours so we would see things like, highly advanced biology-related technology, but little robotics, or highly advanced offensive weapons, but very little communication technology...bla bla bla.
This is why I liked the depiction of the aliens in ID4. They obviously perpared, biologically, and they had "biologically" developed technology. But their weapons weren't very smart, their communications were not as developed as ours were, and they had little to no defense against a system specific virus/worm.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, the premise was Jeff Goldblum's character was literally the only one of the planet to decipher the alien communication based on math. He's supposed to be a super genius and a "one of a kind" human.If he could slightly figure out the alien code..aka, decrypt/decipher, then from there, it would be as simple as syntax. It actually would only need to be as simple as creating a virus that attacked their systems ability to operate their shields. Jeff's character got decades of information from their scientists, as well. They had figured things out to such a point that they almost completely figured out the controls. Knowing that, it is as simple as designing a virus that takes down the system for the shields.
It's also possible that the system for the shields was very simplistic, making it a much more logical choice for attack.
The aliens obviously had far superior technology...based slightly on organics. However, they may not have anything remotely related to computer viruses in their society. For all we know, it is a completely foreign concept. Since the movie portrayed it as such, we have no choice but to accept that the aliens were not used to the human form of computer viruses.
I remember Siskel and Ebert criticizing the crap out of ID4 because of the dogfight with Will Smith. They were saying it was illogical or unlikely that an alien species with superior technology, would have a dog fight with our primitive fighter jets. That doesn't bode well with me. The shielding technology on those fighters was intelligent in that, it permitted objects/energies below certain velocities/yields, but blocked anything above certain threshholds. That's fairly advanced AND quick technolgy. It makes sense that an alien force that is accostumed to wiping out the indigenous sapients would use smaller ships that are quick and nimble: it would make it much easier to wipe them out from the air and then clean up with ground units, just like in the film.
This is true if you apply the specific movie logic. It did happen, so it could happen, so those are the reasons. The idea itself is still rather insane.
Originally posted by Bardock42
This is true if you apply the specific movie logic. It did happen, so it could happen, so those are the reasons. The idea itself is still rather insane.
Of all the things in my post, that's the only thing you got out of it.
And, yes, that's exactly correct. It's their fictional universe, their fictional alien species: a one-of-a-kind computer genius was able to use decdades of research to devise a virus that took down only 1 system out of hundreds to thousands of systems from that alien species.
Definitely faulty logic. Wait, it's not. It's fiction, and that's what happened in that fictional universe.
Reality: it's far more likely that dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of people would have figured out that same thing as Goldblum's character.
Originally posted by Robtard
Reality: If a species that advanced attacked, the humans would have lost.
Reality: the aliens would have been taken down sooner by various hackers that figured out how they are communicating, wirelessly, with the entire satellite system. The Aliens' technology would have fallen much faster as they obviously didn't understand the concept of malicious code.
Obviously, you didn't read my wall posts.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Reality: the aliens would have been taken down sooner by various hackers that figured out how they are communicating, wirelessly, with the entire satellite system. The Aliens' technology would have fallen much faster as they obviously didn't understand the concept of malicious code.Obviously, you didn't read my wall posts.
Obviously, you didn't follow the movie.
-Goldblum couldn't email his super-virus to the mother-ship, he needed the space-fighter to deliver. So hackers couldn't have done it.
-The humans didn't have "decades of research" on the aliens computer systems, as the ship only activated itself 2 days prior.
Come on dude, you're being dense, creating a computer virus in a matter of hours is hard enough, creating one based on a technology/operating system that is alien, I mean completely alien, is impossible.
I think what is most absurd is that a technologically superior race with technologies that are the exact analog of human computers don't have a simple anti-virus program or any other simple defenses against what would be archaic electronic warfare.
It'd be like if we built tanks that weren't impervious to spears.
EDIT: also, the dog fighting was retarded. Any species with the technology for interstellar travel would be able to render all electronics (therefore military planes) inoperable. WE have this technology, or things very close to it.
maybe we're just smarter than they are 😄
though TBH i dont know how you can make that assumption... i mean if you look at the aliens entire attack strategy throughout the movie they suck. using beams that can destroy a few miles with every blast seems woefully inefficient in eradicating an entire species, having super suits that are susceptible to bullets, etc.
just because they achieved interstellar travel doesnt mean that theyre mentally superior in every way imaginable... it seems to me that they suck at military tactics in general.
which makes sense. everyone knows nerds cant fight. 😄 they build the weapons they dont use them.
Originally posted by Robtard
Obviously, you didn't follow the movie.-Goldblum couldn't email his super-virus to the mother-ship, he needed the space-fighter to deliver. So hackers couldn't have done it.
Correct, because he need a physical connection in order to upload it because, get this, the aliens had little to no wireless technology. And, yes, you really didn't read my wall text posts because you would have known I made that point already.
Originally posted by Robtard
-The humans didn't have "decades of research" on the aliens computer systems, as the ship only activated itself 2 days prior.
Incorrect, they had been studying the aliens for decades. Brent Spiner's character mentioned the space-ship coming alive, recently, but they had literally been studying the aliens for decades, since the crash. They knew about their technology, so well, that they even successfully repaired the ship into working condition. AKA, working knowledge. You'd have known that had your read my post.
Originally posted by Robtard
Come on dude, you're being dense, creating a computer virus in a matter of hours is hard enough, creating one based on a technology/operating system that is alien, I mean completely alien, is impossible.
Not impossible if you have several items:
A working knowledge of how the hardware communicates, which they had.
A data system that has no concept/thought of what a virus is.
The worlds most intelligent hacker/computer programmer.
Don't be dense. Just because you don't understand how these things work, doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
This is fiction.
Originally posted by inimalist
I think what is most absurd is that a technologically superior race with technologies that are the exact analog of human computers don't have a simple anti-virus program or any other simple defenses against what would be archaic electronic warfare.It'd be like if we built tanks that weren't impervious to spears.
EDIT: also, the dog fighting was retarded. Any species with the technology for interstellar travel would be able to render all electronics (therefore military planes) inoperable. WE have this technology, or things very close to it.
Logic circuits, math, and data passing with hardware will be have near universal similarities. Working Boolean algebra is hardly a "recent human invention" if you know what I mean.
Reverse engineering logic circuits would take quite some time, but it's not impossible. In the cyber security world, we call these NP-Complete and NP-Hard problems.
Most likely, it would be an NP-Hard problem, intially, but due to the requirement of some sort of boolean circuitry, we would eventually surmise information enough to turn subsequent reverse engineering into NP-Complete problems. Then, we would arrive at the ability to restore/repair the technology (the point it was in the movie), and finally, fully replicate the technology (a point they had not yet reached in the film.)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Don't be dense. Just because you don't understand how these things work, doesn't mean it couldn't happen.This is fiction.
Hahaaha, that was funny, coming from the guy defending a movie Swiss-cheesed with plotholes and nonsense. Let me guess, you'll defend Will Smith KO'ing an alien through his bio-suit?
Exactly, this is why things worked in the movie the way they did, realistically, humans would have lost.