War and Link vs Kratos, Bayonetta and Dante

Started by Burning thought60 pages

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I know this is an assumption and those aren't allowed, but there is no conceivable reason for Ganondorf to have lied once, let alone numerous times. I've never claimed that the developers can't write characters wrong, so don't say I've said something I haven't.

You can do the same for Team 2. 👆

Good then we agree Ganon is not all knowing and can be wrong when he is baking hyperbole pie.

Wow that was quick, I have offical developer quote for Dante being superhuman! wheres your developer quote...oh w8....you dont have one 🙁

Also a lot of characters who speak in DMC,GoW and LoK are not as fallible as the characters speaking in the particulour scenes you have chosen.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Good then we agree Ganon is not all knowing and can be wrong when he is baking hyperbole pie.

Wow that was quick, I have offical developer quote for Dante being superhuman! wheres your developer quote...oh w8....you dont have one 🙁

Also a lot of characters who speak in DMC,GoW and LoK are not as fallible as the characters speaking in the particulour scenes you have chosen.

We don't agree on anything, you know better than that. Quit playing silly bugger.

Too bad it doesn't specify any abilities. I bet you're really kicking yourself for that one.

😆 And what is it that makes any character more fallible than the next? And what is it about those specific scenes that make Ganondorf so fallible? Fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible. I've got to get a lot of those in if I want to say that as much as you do!

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
We don't agree on anything, you know better than that. Quit playing silly bugger.

Too bad it doesn't specify any abilities. I bet you're really kicking yourself for that one.

😆 And what is it that makes any character more fallible than the next? And what is it about those specific scenes that make Ganondorf so fallible? Fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible fallible. I've got to get a lot of those in if I want to say that as much as you do!

Then your talking fanon.

Does not have to, its canon exception, his feats and those of other demons support this as well. No, you want me to be because if I was it means youve actually done something clever, but youve not, not on this forum.

Well thats because its a useful word for outlining how wrong Ganondorf can be, along with any LoZ character, especially when their talking hyperbole about things they have never seen, especially ambiguous hyperbole.

Then your talking fanon.
Given how little you know about Zelda you're not authority on canon. Moo disagreeing with you does not equal fanon.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Then your talking fanon.

Does not have to, its canon exception, his feats and those of other demons support this as well. No, you want me to be because if I was it means youve actually done something clever, but youve not, not on this forum.

Well thats because its a useful word for outlining how wrong Ganondorf can be, along with any LoZ character, especially when their talking hyperbole about things they have never seen, especially ambiguous hyperbole.

Based on what? You're still assuming that the developers lied, and assumptions are not allowed.

Oh but it does. Without specification you are assuming which isn't allowed. No I haven't done anything clever. You yourself should have been able to apply your arguments to your characters, but apparently I have to do everything for you. You better be house broken.

I notice you didn't answer any of my questions, but demonstrated your inability to tell hyperbole from truth.

Does not have to, its canon exception, his feats and those of other demons support this as well. No, you want me to be because if I was it means youve actually done something clever, but youve not, not on this forum.

Link's feats and those of other Triforce Holders also support this. Ganondorf breaks islands. Zelda breaks time.

Why can't Link have something similar?

Link breaks faces. 😎

BT's in denial though, Scenario. You'll notice his pattern around here. He follows Link from thread to thread, spamming his opinions as if they're canon fact, despite having never played a Zelda game.

He doesn't let Ganondorf have anything either. He's got some inexplicable hatred for Zelda games or something. Must be the puzzles. Maybe he's been playing with us and got stuck on the Water temple at a young age?

Lol, BT's irrational Zelda hatred can be explained by a traumatising childhood water temple'ing.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Link's feats and those of other Triforce Holders also support this. Ganondorf breaks islands. Zelda breaks time.

Why can't Link have something similar?

Ok I will have a "logic" discussion with you, you seem capable at least.

Their triforce piecies all represent something different, you cannot accuratly gauge what each triforce possibly gives the owner, we could logically deduce that Ganon become more powerful, based on the triforce of power, Zelda more wise etc

Because its fairly ambiguos, we know it increases his power sure, but in what way? it protects him against certain curses like being transformed in the twilight for intance, thats power hes gained. Physical bonuses do not necesserily have to be awared from this triforce.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Based on what? You're still assuming that the developers lied, and assumptions are not allowed.

Oh but it does. Without specification you are assuming which isn't allowed. No I haven't done anything clever. You yourself should have been able to apply your arguments to your characters, but apparently I have to do everything for you. You better be house broken.

I notice you didn't answer any of my questions, but demonstrated your inability to tell hyperbole from truth.

The developers did not lie, they created characters that can have faults and can be wrong like most developers do...

The specification is given to me, the specific is superhuman, thats it...the feats are the result and a consistent with the demon spiecies.

hyperbole, you dont know the use of the word, "absolute power" is a perfect hyperbole.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Given how little you know about Zelda you're not authority on canon. Moo disagreeing with you does not equal fanon.

Moo claiming disagreeing that with me that Ganon is not all knowing is fanon...

Their triforce piecies all represent something different, you cannot accuratly gauge what each triforce possibly gives the owner, we could logically deduce that Ganon become more powerful, based on the triforce of power, Zelda more wise etc
ERROR:

Zelda received the triforce of Wisdom because she is wise, and gained magical power.
Link gained the triforce of courage because he has courage, and gained awesome powerz.

Like I said, you wouldn't give the triforce of lulz to someone with no sense of humour.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ok I will have a "logic" discussion with you, you seem capable at least.

Their triforce piecies all represent something different, you cannot accuratly gauge what each triforce possibly gives the owner, we could logically deduce that Ganon become more powerful, based on the triforce of power, Zelda more wise etc

Because its fairly ambiguos, we know it increases his power sure, but in what way? it protects him against certain curses like being transformed in the twilight for intance, thats power hes gained. Physical bonuses do not necesserily have to be awared from this triforce.

The developers did not lie, they created characters that can have faults and can be wrong like most developers do...

The specification is given to me, the specific is superhuman, thats it...the feats are the result and a consistent with the demon spiecies.

hyperbole, you dont know the use of the word, "absolute power" is a perfect hyperbole.

Moo claiming disagreeing that with me that Ganon is not all knowing is fanon...

Regarding your post on the Triforce at Scenario, keep in mind you haven't played any of the games, ever.

Now for you talking to me.

Okay. So what could lead you to believe Ganondorf would lie there? Or even be incorrect in his statements?

You can be Superhuman without being incredibly fast or strong. In what areas he is superhuman remains unspecified, and therefore, toonforce feats.

No, it isn't. Within the context it is rather specific. As exaggeration, hyperbolic statements are prone to be vague. Things with exact numbers, like in the Pokedex for example, would not be hyperbole. And I notice you STILL haven't answered my questions. Please do so.

I didn't disagree there. I never even suggested he was. Stop saying I did.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
ERROR:

Zelda received the triforce of Wisdom because she is wise, and gained magical power.
Link gained the triforce of courage because he has courage, and gained awesome powerz.

Like I said, you wouldn't give the triforce of lulz to someone with no sense of humour.

Yet you always complain that Ganon did something impressive "without" his triforce piece, therefore sure maybe they were each powerful, wise, courageous etc but that does not mean they get powers from their triforce not relevant t

So far it seems:

Power: bit obvious, overall might

Magic knowledge/power= wisdom

Link: well he always seems full of courage, not sure whether its gaugable by how much without the triforce piece. Or what other powers it allows.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Regarding your post on the Triforce at Scenario, keep in mind you haven't played any of the games, ever.

Now for you talking to me.

Okay. So what could lead you to believe Ganondorf would lie there? Or even be incorrect in his statements?

You can be Superhuman without being incredibly fast or strong. In what areas he is superhuman remains unspecified, and therefore, toonforce feats.

No, it isn't. Within the context it is rather specific. As exaggeration, hyperbolic statements are prone to be vague. Things with exact numbers, like in the Pokedex for example, would not be hyperbole. And I notice you STILL haven't answered my questions. Please do so.

I didn't disagree there. I never even suggested he was. Stop saying I did.

Kinda like you and my 3 characters games.

Nah, if he is superhuman it means beyond human by far, the specification is in the feats, he just has the exception Link lacks.

It is vague, it just claims "absolute power" which is fallible, Ganon would not even know what its capable of since hes never seen anything in LoZ perform absolute power, not even the full triforce. exact numbers can be hyperbole, specified figuires/events can still be exaggerated.

So you just contradicted yourself then...lulz, stop tripping and falling on your own silly little arguments.

Yet you always complain that Ganon did something impressive "without" his triforce piece, therefore sure maybe they were each powerful, wise, courageous etc
I note that in Ganon's feats, because it's relevant. Had Ganon had the triforce, said feats would have been amplified.

And no. It's explicitly stated in several games the triforce pieces seek out those who best represent their values, and also that they grant power. Each of the three characters in question has illustrated their power. Furthermore, Link is always just as courageous before he recieves the triforce. (OoT/WW are good examples, and in MM, Link's lost the triforce of courage, and still ballsier at ten than almost any adult character ever.)

Let's be honest, BT. Your argument holds no water, it's crumbled, and you're cycling through the same few, already disproven arguments to try and salvage your point, which was obviously flawed from the get go.

For you to be even close to right, innumerable cutscenes, statements, quotes, plot points, and generally the entire canon of Zelda would have to be different from how it is now. The fact is, the canon disagrees with you, and you've been beaten down with your own logic. I'm not sure how you can even come into this thread without feeling shame.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kinda like you and my 3 characters games.

Nah, if he is superhuman it means beyond human by far, the specification is in the feats, he just has the exception Link lacks.

It is vague, it just claims "absolute power" which is fallible, Ganon would not even know what its capable of since hes never seen anything in LoZ perform absolute power, not even the full triforce. exact numbers can be hyperbole, specified figuires/events can still be exaggerated.

So you just contradicted yourself then...lulz, stop tripping and falling on your own silly little arguments.

This is false. I have played DMC4, why do you think I'm still willing to argue with you?

Not really. Dante has the ability to turn into a demon-form. That is shape shifting, and it is a super power. The superhuman abilities must be specified. And besides, the feats are toonforce without the reason which must be specified. There is a fantastic loop of "logic" here.

Except it isn't vague. 5L's absolute power video only gave you the moment where he said absolute power. I'm sure you watched before that for things you could use to nullify the feat, but you wouldn't have told me without finding anything. At 2:13 Ganondorf says "Your people had some skill to be sure." and from there he continues to say that they lacked power, the kind of absolute power that those chosen by the gods wield.

Ganondorf is referring to the Twili's magic powers which the Light Spirits were created to seal away. The power of the Fused Shadows. To continue using your logic, Midna used all four Fused Shadows and had the power to destroy the barrier around Hyrule Castle, and to bust Hyrule Castle, yet Ganondorf is still better than her. I smell a feat. In fact, in my favorite scene of Twilight Princess (the one where Midna gets it's ass kicked 👆 ), Zant and It have an argument about where Zant's powers come from. It's a major point in the whole game's plot, and you've even seen that video before. But I suppose I can't expect much, you haven't played the games.

That is not the point, the surrounding language is used to determine hyperbole, which is why it's "obvious exaggeration." Yeah you can exaggerate figures, but it's much more rare and even then, very easy to tell from truth. "Charizard's was so hot, it felt like 10,000 degrees of heat!" vs "Charizard's fire can reach heats of 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit."

That looked like a Silly bugger sentence, but I'm not sure. Do you need some time to come up with something?

So if some really wise person is around during Links 'reincarnation' would they get the triforce of wisdom? The same as someone being more couragous then Link, who would get it?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
This is false. I have played DMC4, why do you think I'm still willing to argue with you?

Not really. Dante has the ability to turn into a demon-form. That is shape shifting, and it is a super power. The superhuman abilities must be specified. And besides, the feats are toonforce without the reason which must be specified. There is a fantastic loop of "logic" here.

Except it isn't vague. 5L's absolute power video only gave you the moment where he said absolute power. I'm sure you watched before that for things you could use to nullify the feat, but you wouldn't have told me without finding anything. At 2:13 Ganondorf says "Your people had some skill to be sure." and from there he continues to say that they lacked power, the kind of absolute power that those chosen by the gods wield.

Ganondorf is referring to the Twili's magic powers which the Light Spirits were created to seal away. The power of the Fused Shadows. To continue using your logic, Midna used all four Fused Shadows and had the power to destroy the barrier around Hyrule Castle, and to bust Hyrule Castle, yet Ganondorf is still better than her. I smell a feat. In fact, in my favorite scene of Twilight Princess (the one where Midna gets it's ass kicked 👆 ), Zant and It have an argument about where Zant's powers come from. It's a major point in the whole game's plot, and you've even seen that video before. But I suppose I can't expect much, you haven't played the games.

That is not the point, the surrounding language is used to determine hyperbole, which is why it's "obvious exaggeration." Yeah you can exaggerate figures, but it's much more rare and even then, very easy to tell from truth. "Charizard's was so hot, it felt like 10,000 degrees of heat!" vs "Charizard's fire can reach heats of 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit."

That looked like a Silly bugger sentence, but I'm not sure. Do you need some time to come up with something?

I have my doubts, your ignorence on Dante and demons in general points out you seem to not have played it, Credo (the guy who gives us the quote Bloodrain used to certify Dantes powers) is from DMC4.

Your the one saying it now, not me. Theres no reason for superhuman power to be specified in text, we can see the spiecifcs in his feats. No its just your poor logic.

"absolute power" is vague, its not a specific lmiit or gauge, its a combo of hyperbole and to say otherwise you would be comitting no limit fallacy for Links powers. Their also fallible statements.

How is all this relevent to your point? this does not help you case....

You dont know what hyperbole means or silly bugger now "sigh"

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I note that in Ganon's feats, because it's relevant. Had Ganon had the triforce, said feats would have been amplified.

And no. It's explicitly stated in several games the triforce pieces seek out those who best represent their values, and also that they grant power. Each of the three characters in question has illustrated their power. Furthermore, Link is always just as courageous before he recieves the triforce. (OoT/WW are good examples, and in MM, Link's lost the triforce of courage, and still ballsier at ten than almost any adult character ever.)

Let's be honest, BT. Your argument holds no water, it's crumbled, and you're cycling through the same few, already disproven arguments to try and salvage your point, which was obviously flawed from the get go.

For you to be even close to right, innumerable cutscenes, statements, quotes, plot points, and generally the entire canon of Zelda would have to be different from how it is now. The fact is, the canon disagrees with you, and you've been beaten down with your own logic. I'm not sure how you can even come into this thread without feeling shame.

By the triforce of power, hence why it would be more powerful.

Yes so? how does that make it certain that they do not only enhance those qualities further? it doesnt.... ok show the source, show us Link being just as courageous without the triforce (ofc you would have to prove he does not have it in the scene).

This is the denile you talked about earlier, only where it held no truth in me, your showing it holds truth in you, stop trying to imply youve gotten anywhere with your statements, fanon and poor logic.

Thats not true at all, it just means the cutscenes were showing us what the developers wanted us to see, they dont have to be "wrong", the characters within may certainly be mistaken. Its funny because your daft little 1000 ton supersonic link arguments are however in contradiction with the puzzle solving, item collecting nature of the entire series.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I have my doubts, your ignorence on Dante and demons in general points out you seem to not have played it, Credo (the guy who gives us the quote Bloodrain used to certify Dantes powers) is from DMC4.

Your the one saying it now, not me. Theres no reason for superhuman power to be specified in text, we can see the spiecifcs in his feats. No its just your poor logic.

"absolute power" is vague, its not a specific lmiit or gauge, its a combo of hyperbole and to say otherwise you would be comitting no limit fallacy for Links powers. Their also fallible statements.

How is all this relevent to your point? this does not help you case....

You dont know what hyperbole means or silly bugger now "sigh"

I display no ignorance at all. You are confusing ignorance with your own logic. Understandable though.

Saying what? The reason had to be specified in text because specifying it in feats is impossible, as without the reason, the feats are toonforce. This is your loop of "logic" BT, not mine. Everyone else seems to see it but you.

Way to completely ignore what I said. Or you missed the point all together. Not surprising.

Read it again and just stop and think about it. The path you were attempting to use to escape your loop of terrible logic has now been cut off. Just make a decision. Is your logic complete nonsense or do you want to stick with it and argue within the boundaries you set?

I do. You do not. Your use of the language remains terrible. Are you even British? I don't know. Someone said you were once so I just went with it.

Its funny because your daft little 1000 ton supersonic link arguments are however in contradiction with the puzzle solving, item collecting nature of the entire series.
Hey, you know who totally ripped off Link's M.O., and no one is claiming he's not superhuman?

War. 😐

Puzzles = good gameplay, not a contradiction to a character's power.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I display no ignorance at all. You are confusing ignorance with your own logic. Understandable though.

Saying what? The reason had to be specified in text because specifying it in feats is impossible, as without the reason, the feats are toonforce. This is your loop of "logic" BT, not mine. Everyone else seems to see it but you.

Way to completely ignore what I said. Or you missed the point all together. Not surprising.

Read it again and just stop and think about it. The path you were attempting to use to escape your loop of terrible logic has now been cut off. Just make a decision. Is your logic complete nonsense or do you want to stick with it and argue within the boundaries you set?

I do. You do not. Your use of the language remains terrible. Are you even British? I don't know. Someone said you were once so I just went with it.

tiz not the truth my child.

Nope, all the logic your own, and its awful. And theres no "everyone else" 😆

its pretty much what your doing.

Yes, hence how I know what I am talking about and you dont. The only thing I dont use online is gram?maa.rr and spelleng.