Hp Doomsday/Thanos vs Darkseid/Odin

Originally posted by h1a8
Of course it is. Who with Superman level durability or above has Odin completely disintegrated?Odin has hurt herald level beings or even killed them. But never has his blasts been so powerful as to just disintegrate them. DS has many times disintegrated beings of Superman level durability and greater.

Originally posted by Enyalus
*shrug* I'll concede that. Although I think Thanos' durability trumps that of H/P DD's so using Thanos being able to survive it isn't helpful. Him tanking supernovae point blank and surviving for hours in a black hole should be proof of it.

They are very different. Wait until Kev or OV or Allankles sees this post. They'll set you straight.

Writer intentions??? The writer wrote Darkseid saying he was firing the Omega Beams at DD and that nothing could withstand them. Jurgens wrote that Darkseid used the OB. Not me. You have a problem with that you take it up with him and his editor. The writer clearly intended for Darkseid to be using the OB, not the OE. Why? Because he had Darkseid say so.

Bullshit. In the H/P story, Superman hits him with heat vision which at one point does nothing. Then he pours it on, and it does hurt him. Why? Because Superman turned up the intensity. So its perfectly valid. The Radiant's energies have nothing to do with any of this. He was killed by them and adapted to it...The Radiant's particular form of energy, not all energy period.

The OE didn't damage him, you're right. Because the OE was never used. As far as the OB not damaging him, prove it. You can't. Know why? Because we don't see what happens when he's buried under all that rubble. He could be burnt and badly damaged for all you know. It's nothing but unfounded speculation on your part.

Yeah, whatever. Let me know if Darkseid's blasts are ever felt simultaneously across every plane of existence, or the aftereffects of his power create new stars, or his beams destroy galaxies.

Wrong. We are using Doomsday as he appeared in the Hunter/Prey arc. That means everything which happened during those 3 issues involving Doomsday is fair game. You cannot pick and choose which feats you want to use and which ones you don't. Not when a specific version like this is being used.

reported

Trust me. I know what I'm talking about.

Heh.

Christ.

facepalm

Originally posted by h1a8
Both Seth's and Odin's blasts were re-igniting dead starts (not creating them

Originally posted by psycho gundam
cause dead stars = charcoal

Originally posted by h1a8
That is purely dumb idiocy. HP DD is far far far more durable than Thanos.

Originally posted by h1a8
The entire power is called the OE. Now DS can do various different things with it but they are all called using the OE. The Omega Beams = using The Omega Effect. Look in any official D.C. bio and you will see. The OE can erase, teleport, and transmute.

Originally posted by h1a8
Clearly the writer wanted to show that the OE can't even stop DD.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yet Superman poured on the intensity in DOS and it did nothing.

Originally posted by h1a8
The bottom line, hurt or not, the hv did no damage. Damage is the only way to die.

Originally posted by h1a8
Already discussed above. Writer's intention was clearly to show that DD was beyond the OE. Speculation is CREATING something that wasn't shown. It is only speculation that the OE damaged DD, not the other way around.

Originally posted by h1a8
These characters never existed. Why argue how DD really was under the rubble? There was no rubble just a piece of paper with paint on it.

Originally posted by h1a8
All we can go on is writer's intentions. With that said DD had the ability to evolve on the fly.

"He evolved...became impervious to my weapon! Even his broken knee bone that I kicked off in our first fight has grown back!"

Is Superman attributing that broken knee bone regrowing to evolving, or is that due to DD's healing factor? What does he use to block the ultrasonic gun? He grows out the bones in his face slightly to cover his ears up. If you have a healing factor, that's pretty easy to do.

And its the only instance in the storyline where DD does anything remotely like evolving on the fly.

Originally posted by h1a8
We can't just use the initial HP DD just because you say so. We just can't use the final version of HP DD just because I say so. We must go by forum rules. The most recent character must be used (the latest) and the character must fight with the best of their ability. That means we must take the HP DD after he experience the OE, sword, HV, etc.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Based on what? DD surviving 'a million nuclear blasts'? Big deal. Thanos was unscathed by a supernova explosion point blank. How much force did he take there? You're the calculations expert. Tell me. Hell, for that matter...black holes form from the collapse of 3-4+ solar masses. Why don't you calculate how much force he was subjected to while in that black hole for the hour-plus that he was.
[/B]

I'm not convinced Thanos was in a black hole at all. I believed he escaped before he even entered it. I could be wrong though as I only read the scans and not the comic.

Darkseid has the Omega Power, yes. The Omega Beams are simply the beams he uses on a regular basis. When he wants to send something through time or erase them completely, etc, he uses the Omega Effect to do it. It causes a particular effect. Hence the name Omega Effect. The Omega Beams are the vanilla version.

Again you are arguing against writer's intentions. It is clear what the writer wanted to show. Hell, the comic even implied that the mother box took DD to the ONLY place where he can be killed. What do you think the writer was trying to say? That DS was stupid as hell for not trying to disintegrate or erase DD instead of just hurt him? Clearly the writer wasn't trying to say that.

Clearly you are lying, because the writer never mentions the OE and thus you cannot say that his intent was to do something pertaining to it. The writer said Omega Beams. That is what Darkseid used. The vanilla beams, with no effect to it. Those same Omega Beams have literally bounced off of Superman's chest, as well as Wonder Woman's bracers. Nothing spectacular about them besides a powerful energy attack.

Irrelevant. This is not DOS we're talking about, and the Superman in it was weaker than in H/P, plus he was not amped. Completely irrelevant to the discussion.

You know what did do damage to him? That plasma sword, which cut through that hide of his.

You cannot just say DD wasn't damaged by Darkseid's OB, when there is zero evidence to show that. You are speculating without any evidence to back it up. DD was buried under that rubble. You do not know what went on underneath it. Neither do I.

This is possibly the most ludicrous point in the thread so far. Why are we arguing it? Because it was in a comic and this is the comic versus forum...it is obviously a piece of paper with paint on it. Duh? Completely irrelevant.

Wrong again. The only possible 'evolution' on the fly that DD ever showed in Hunter/Prey[i/] was him closing up his ear canals as an adaption to the ultrasonic gun. And even [i]that is attributed to his healing factor more than anything else.

"He evolved...became impervious to my weapon! Even his broken knee bone that I kicked off in our first fight has grown back!"

Is Superman attributing that broken knee bone regrowing to evolving, or is that due to DD's healing factor? What does he use to block the ultrasonic gun? He grows out the bones in his face slightly to cover his ears up. If you have a healing factor, that's pretty easy to do.

And its the only instance in the storyline where DD does anything remotely like evolving on the fly.

I didn't say one word about using the 'initial' HP DD. I said, whatever HP DD in the arc, we use that. All of it. Because all of it is fair game. Because by forum rules, it is. If a version of a character is specified, we use that version of him. All of it. Not just the parts you don't like or don't want to acknowledge because it hurts your already poor argument.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Based on what? DD surviving 'a million nuclear blasts'? Big deal. Thanos was unscathed by a supernova explosion point blank.

When was this?

I ask, because I don't recall any such instance off hand, and I've seen a number of people mistake the destruction of a gas giant PLANET for the destruction of a star. That was the Fallen One bit.

How much force did he take there? You're the calculations expert. Tell me. Hell, for that matter...black holes form from the collapse of 3-4+ solar masses. Why don't you calculate how much force he was subjected to while in that black hole for the hour-plus that he was.

Thanos? There is no evidence that that Black Hole was open for an hour, or anything close to it. From what we've seen, in fact, it was only open for an instant, which was kind of the point of the weapon.

That said, I think you're both kind of off base in trying to derive anything from such 'space cheese' examples. Every Green Lantern has casually survived black holes. A number of them have sealed them up permanently. Superman has survived one. Surfer has survived at least one, even created one. Terrax LIVED in one for a while. Heck, Mr. Miracle survived in one for 7 days.

I'm going back to not bothering with h1's posts...

Originally posted by Desaad
When was this?

I ask, because I don't recall any such instance off hand, and I've seen a number of people mistake the destruction of a gas giant PLANET for the destruction of a star. That was the Fallen One bit.

a) Looks like the Shi'ar (Gladiator and Starlord) are in orbit in the same star system as where Thanos fights Fallen One. The caption says, "The Planet Eden. Shi'ar Imperial Cruser in orbit." Then they go on to talk about how Fallen One's energy has been tracked to 'the asteroid field.' There's obviously tons of asteroid fields in space. The word 'the' implies they're in the same system.
b) Scene switches to "Thanos' Starship. Above the gas giant." Why would they give a name for the planet the Shi'ar ship was parked above but not for a gas giant planet? Indicates that its not a planet. And the word 'the' either means there was one gas giant planet in the entire system, or that it was a star.
c) The explosion can be seen from the Shi'ar Imperial Cruiser (and it looks pretty big, mind you.)
d) When running checks on the ship to see if it's damaged, the Shi'ar officer says, and I quote, "Gradual orbital slip. Full-system tumble. By this time next cycle this system's worlds will be uninhabitable." Key words here are 'this system's worlds', as in plural. Every world in that solar system is rendered useless. Would that be the case if a planet blew up? I don't know, but I doubt it. Would that be the case if the star in that system blew up? Most definitely.
e) Thanos states, "It ignited the gas giant's core."...A gas giant planet's core is liquid and solid. Which I imagine would be sort of difficult to ignite? Gases in a star though...those would be a lot more combustible.

I know the art is kind of sketchy, which is why I said I can see how you would say it was a gas giant planet, not a star. But the other evidence suggests (to me at least) that it was a star. Unless you know of a Starlin interview or something where he says it was a planet blowing up? Then I'd definitely admit to my interpretation being wrong. But as of now, mine makes more sense to me.

Originally posted by Desaad
Thanos? There is no evidence that that Black Hole was open for an hour, or anything close to it. From what we've seen, in fact, it was only open for an instant, which was kind of the point of the weapon.

Now, the next two scans take place in next issue. Warlock has already been found by the Thanosi and they recruited Moondragon to free him from his cocoon, etc. When Warlock says, "As chance would have it, at that exact moment," he is referring to what is going on with him being woken up and asked Thanosi's help...

And there you have from the Skrulls, confirming, it was a 'few hours'. Dunno if he was in there for a few moments (which seems...unlikely) or for the majority of those few hours' duration, but...there you have it.

H1 is my favorite debator because he bases everything on things he just randomly made up on the spot.

With that said, I agree with him that the OE = the OB (all I read of his posts). There is no evidence that I've ever seen, or requested to see that shows any different.

Originally posted by h1a8
That is purely dumb idiocy. HP DD is far far far more durable than Thanos.
I'm an old member here. I've argued about this issue years ago. Trust me. I know what I'm talking about. The entire power is called the OE. Now DS can do various different things with it but they are all called using the OE. The Omega Beams = using The Omega Effect. Look in any official D.C. bio and you will see. The OE can erase, teleport, and transmute. Clearly the writer wanted to show that the OE can't even stop DD. Arguing against that intention proves bias and thus your arguments are compromised. Yet Superman poured on the intensity in DOS and it did nothing. Hell the Earth's hottest laser (hotter than the core of a star) didn't even scratch DOS DD. The bottom line, hurt or not, the hv did no damage. Damage is the only way to die. Already discussed above. Writer's intention was clearly to show that DD was beyond the OE. Speculation is CREATING something that wasn't shown. It is only speculation that the OE damaged DD, not the other way around. These characters never existed. Why argue how DD really was under the rubble? There was no rubble just a piece of paper with paint on it. All we can go on is writer's intentions. With that said DD had the ability to evolve on the fly. Thus the OE will not affect him in the slightest now. Odin can't destroy galaxies with a blast. Effecting different planes of existence is a testament to magic manipulation of dimensions and not power. Both Seth's and Odin's blasts were re-igniting dead starts (not creating them). Also DD>>>>>>mere gases. Even if Odin could destroy a galaxy with one blast doesn't prove he can even scratch DD. Imagine a super storm destroying a whole city, yet a small piece of steel remains unscathed. Imagine a powerful fan destroyed a bunch of bubbles (water blown bubbles by kids) and yet it doesn't nothing to a penny. No DD was evolving the entire series. We can't just use the initial HP DD just because you say so. We just can't use the final version of HP DD just because I say so. We must go by forum rules. The most recent character must be used (the latest) and the character must fight with the best of their ability. That means we must take the HP DD after he experience the OE, sword, HV, etc.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm going back to not bothering with h1's posts...

That is, in fact, what I'm referring to. And, after going back and rereading it carefully, I could see how it can be mistaken for a gas giant planet. But I think it's a star that Fallen One blows up. Why?

No, it's a planet. Marvel itself says as much.

The Fallen One's powerful energy attack devastated Thanos' giant ship, sending him plummeting to the surface of the planet below. Surviving unscathed, Thanos and his new ally Skreet overpowered the Fallen One, sending him into the core of the gas giant and ignited it.

http://marvel.com/universe/Fallen_One_%28unrevealed%29

b) Scene switches to "Thanos' Starship. Above the gas giant." Why would they give a name for the planet the Shi'ar ship was parked above but not for a gas giant planet? Indicates that its not a planet. And the word 'the' either means there was one gas giant planet in the entire system, or that it was a star.
c) The explosion can be seen from the Shi'ar Imperial Cruiser (and it looks pretty big, mind you.)

All your points are incredibly circumstantial and ignore the basics of what we know. They went to a planet, the planet was a gas giant, Fallen One ignited it. If there was some conclusive evidence that a star came into play these things would be fine, but without any such evidence, and in light of Marvel's stance, and in light of the way the scene was structured -- with no mention of any star or sun, ever -- I think it's very, very clear what was implied.

d) When running checks on the ship to see if it's damaged, the Shi'ar officer says, and I quote, "Gradual orbital slip. Full-system tumble. By this time next cycle this system's worlds will be uninhabitable." Key words here are 'this system's worlds', as in plural. Every world in that solar system is rendered useless. Would that be the case if a planet blew up? I don't know, but I doubt it. Would that be the case if the star in that system blew up? Most definitely.

Uh, yeah, that line fives the reasoning right there -- gradual ORBITAL slip. If a planet is suddenly removed from a system, the delicate gravimetric balance would be totally destroyed, which would cause all the rest of the planets to spin out (or into) the sun.

e) Thanos states, "It ignited the gas giant's core."...A gas giant planet's core is liquid and solid. Which I imagine would be sort of difficult to ignite? Gases in a star though...those would be a lot more combustible.

Are you familiar with all the cores of every gas giant across the universe? Are you saying that liquids and solids can't be ignited? I don't follow you at all.

I know the art is kind of sketchy, which is why I said I can see how you would say it was a gas giant planet, not a star. But the other evidence suggests (to me at least) that it was a star. Unless you know of a Starlin interview or something where he says it was a planet blowing up? Then I'd definitely admit to my interpretation being wrong. But as of now, mine makes more sense to me.

I'm obviously not going to work too hard to change your mind here, but there is zero evidence to back up that it was a star. You can believe what you want, but all evidence points to it being a planet.

And Starlin didn't write this, Giffen did.

Now, the next two scans take place in next issue. Warlock has already been found by the Thanosi and they recruited Moondragon to free him from his cocoon, etc. When Warlock says, "As chance would have it, at that exact moment," he is referring to what is going on with him being woken up and asked Thanosi's help...

And there you have from the Skrulls, confirming, it was a 'few hours'. Dunno if he was in there for a few moments (which seems...unlikely) or for the majority of those few hours' duration, but...there you have it. [/B]

To be clear, I'm not arguing that Thanos was ADRIFT for a few hours, just that the black hole was only open for an instant. Which is backed up by the actual text, making it clear that it was open for less than thirty seconds.

If only read the last page partially so:
Hello everybody 🙂

Originally posted by Parmaniac
If only read the last page partially so:
Hello everybody 🙂

Originally posted by Badabing
dur

Desaad:

That Marvel bio is all I needed to see. So, I concede the point that you're right. (I usually don't bother with that site). And my bad about the Starlin thing. Forgot Giffen took over for him the second half of the Thanos series. Good catch.

No worries! Giffen is one of my favorite writers, especially when it comes to cosmic stuff, so I had to correct you. 🙂

I remain steadfast in my belief, by the way, that none of that has anything to do with how Thanos is going to take a punch from Superman or whoever. Going by space cheese feats like that Surfer should be totally unassailable, and yet he's been one shotted by Thor and even knocked out by sledge hammer wielding mexicans.

Originally posted by Desaad
No worries! Giffen is one of my favorite writers, especially when it comes to cosmic stuff, so I had to correct you. 🙂

Originally posted by Desaad
I remain steadfast in my belief, by the way, that none of that has anything to do with how Thanos is going to take a punch from Superman or whoever. Going by space cheese feats like that Surfer should be totally unassailable, and yet he's been one shotted by Thor and even knocked out by sledge hammer wielding mexicans.