Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, it probably would, but that's beside the point. It'd cook someone in their armour, regardless of whether the armour itself melted.
No. Not all, not even in the older suits, unless they completely submerged theirselves in the lava for a while in the older suits.
Not even the plasma guns from the hunter's assault rifle have burned through the armor MJOLNIR V/VI and yes by the time they reach the target they are still hotter than a volcano.
Anyway the heat wouldn't be much of a problem to the Elite
It's more or less the fact that the fire temple is inside an active volcano, underneath the culdera, and a structure like that would work like a massive oven. The air would be so hot it could liquify any metal known to modern man within moments. 😐
Not even the plasma guns from the hunter's assault rifle have burned through the armor MJOLNIR V/VI and yes by the time they reach the target they are still hotter than a volcano.
Brief exposure < prolonged exposure.
You're missing the point. He will be constantly exposed to that temperature. It will not occur in brief bursts like from a weapon. And it will cook and kill him. o_O
how hot is the fire temple?
Well, no concrete numbers, but typical lava is 700 to 1200 degrees celcius, and the inside of a volcano is much, much hotter. The temple is like an oven inside a volcano.
Answer me this, does the Arbiter need to breathe? If he does, he just basically inhaled magma air. His lungs, if he has them, have been boiled inside out. It does not matter how powerful his armor is, because it only protects him on the outside. The air, should he inhale even once, will kill him. Does everyone understand that? It does not matter how good the armor is when the the threat completely ignores your armor.
Everyone is also forgetting a rather vital part of the Fire Temple: Vovolgia. The dragon is going to be breathing even more magma fire at the Arbiter while the very arena is killing him. Not to mention the occasional magma spouts that will periodically shoot up and quite possibly douse the Arbiter in magma. Again, even if the armor can take a few blasts of plasma does not mean it can take prolonged exposure to the Fire Temple.
Has anyone ever heard of something called "the death of a thousand cuts"? Basically, you have a tiny little knife. It makes a tiny little cut that barely even hurts. But then it cuts you again. A little pain, nothing too bad. Then fast forward to this little knife inflicting thousands of wounds everywhere on your body. Eyes, nose, inside of the mouth, everywhere. And it keeps cutting the same spots over and over again, ripping open the scabs as soon as they form. Soon, your entire body is mass of scar tissue in constant pain, but that tiny little knife just won't stop cutting, cutting, cutting...
That is more messed up than you can even imagine. That is the Fire Temple, inflicting that one little cut, one at a time, until you die.
I hope this has been a learning experience. Thank you, and good night.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're missing the point. He will be constantly exposed to that temperature. It will not occur in brief bursts like from a weapon. And it will cook and kill him. o_OWell, no concrete numbers, but typical lava is 700 to 1200 degrees celcius, and the inside of a volcano is much, much hotter. The temple is like an oven inside a volcano.
How is the inside of the volcano gonna be hotter than the lava? that definately wouldn't explain why the rocks there aren't melting cause going over 1200 Celsius would be passing the melting point for all known rocks, thats like saying the air from a flamethrower is hotter than the flame.
That Plasma sword is gonna stay the same heat the whole time, the Halo Wars Arbiter can easily reach Volvagia and pierce his skull.
Originally posted by The Scenario
Answer me this, does the Arbiter need to breathe? If he does, he just basically inhaled magma air. His lungs, if he has them, have been boiled inside out. It does not matter how powerful his armor is, because it only protects him on the outside. The air, should he inhale even once, will kill him. Does everyone understand that? It does not matter how good the armor is when the the threat completely ignores your armor.Everyone is also forgetting a rather vital part of the Fire Temple: Vovolgia. The dragon is going to be breathing even more magma fire at the Arbiter while the very arena is killing him. Not to mention the occasional magma spouts that will periodically shoot up and quite possibly douse the Arbiter in magma. Again, even if the armor can take a few blasts of plasma does not mean it can take prolonged exposure to the Fire Temple.
Has anyone ever heard of something called "the death of a thousand cuts"? Basically, you have a tiny little knife. It makes a tiny little cut that barely even hurts. But then it cuts you again. A little pain, nothing too bad. Then fast forward to this little knife inflicting thousands of wounds everywhere on your body. Eyes, nose, inside of the mouth, everywhere. And it keeps cutting the same spots over and over again, ripping open the scabs as soon as they form. Soon, your entire body is mass of scar tissue in constant pain, but that tiny little knife just won't stop cutting, cutting, cutting...
That is more messed up than you can even imagine. That is the Fire Temple, inflicting that one little cut, one at a time, until you die.
I hope this has been a learning experience. Thank you, and good night.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I agree with Scenario, but there's one more detail being neglected: conduction.Assume Arbiter's armour provides him with self contained air. His suit will still, maybe slowly, be recieving heat from the air, and eventually become just as hot as the air.
For all you know Elites breathe off of Carbon Dioxide.
Skip the entire homeworld temperature theory and the convenant technology being built to better withstand heat type weapons.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Well, no concrete numbers, but typical lava is 700 to 1200 degrees celcius, and the inside of a volcano is much, much hotter. The temple is like an oven inside a volcano.
then you dont actually know how it is nor how damaging it may be to an elite. the truth is that the argument on both sides has a lack of actual concrete evidence. its assumed on your end that because someone of links physiology can be killed by the heat of the temple that someone of an elites physiology can be as well- there is no evidence pointing toward that- and there isnt any concrete evidence saying it couldnt happen either.
however, the laser weapons used by the sentinels are stated in ghosts of onyx to emit a beam that has a temperature of 15 thousand kelvin which is 26,540.33 degrees Fahrenheit. elites have fought sentinels many times before and they have taken hits from them before as has the master chief and their shields have protected them from the heat, in addition it takes multiple blasts of this heat to dissipate the shield. there is also the time when the arbiter had to retrieve the index from the quarantine zone which involved him moving through magma tunnels and through melting ships... and fighting sentinels. if the shields can withstand the heat from such an area as well as sudden temperature spikes that are 20 times hotter than the hottest volcano (that is assuming that the temple is indeed the max 1200 degrees Celsius which it may very well be lower than), then there is little speculation involved in assuming that he can withstand the heat of this temple. as far as prolonged exposure is concerned, covenant shields recharge so as the heat is wearing them down the shields are recharging anyway... and again if a sudden 26,000 degrees cant dissipate them then some measly 2100 wont even register.
also keep in mind that the armor that the arbiter wears is stated to be "not as sopihisticated" and older than current elite armor... so if it can withstand that heat then it must be even easier for the current technolgoy.
Answer me this, does the Arbiter need to breathe? If he does, he just basically inhaled magma air. His lungs, if he has them, have been boiled inside out. It does not matter how powerful his armor is, because it only protects him on the outside. The air, should he inhale even once, will kill him. Does everyone understand that? It does not matter how good the armor is when the the threat completely ignores your armor.
should? why? youre making the same mistake of assuming that elites are as frail as we are. obviously as i pointed out above theyre capable of withstanding intense heat even without the armor (otherwise the beams would have killed the arbiter because the armor doesnt cover his face), and in addition the arbiter was able to run freely around melting steel constructs and molten metal flooded caverns... the amount of noxious gases in such a place would be lethal to us but not to elites apparently.
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
however, the laser weapons used by the sentinels are stated in ghosts of onyx to emit a beam that has a temperature of 15 thousand kelvin which is 26,540.33 degrees Fahrenheit. elites have fought sentinels many times before and they have taken hits from them before as has the master chief and their shields have protected them from the heat, in addition it takes multiple blasts of this heat to dissipate the shield. there is also the time when the arbiter had to retrieve the index from the quarantine zone which involved him moving through magma tunnels and through melting ships... and fighting sentinels. if the shields can withstand the heat from such an area as well as sudden temperature spikes that are 20 times hotter than the hottest volcano (that is assuming that the temple is indeed the max 1200 degrees Celsius which it may very well be lower than), then there is little speculation involved in assuming that he can withstand the heat of this temple. as far as prolonged exposure is concerned, covenant shields recharge so as the heat is wearing them down the shields are recharging anyway... and again if a sudden 26,000 degrees cant dissipate them then some measly 2100 wont even register.
As for the strength of energy shields, four sentinels, yes FOUR sentinels were firing at Master Chief in the Mark V Armor at the same time for more than four seconds; yet his shield didn't even break. This was a cutscene when Master Chief was in the Pillar of Autumn's control room.
Any elite's shield is atleast the strength of that of the Chief's.
should? why? youre making the same mistake of assuming that elites are as frail as we are.
however, the laser weapons used by the sentinels are stated in ghosts of onyx to emit a beam that has a temperature of 15 thousand kelvin which is 26,540.33 degrees Fahrenheit.
Which is 14726.850000000002 degrees C. Fortunately: lightning, which strikes regular people all the time hits 40 000 degrees C. People survive because the strike is brief, and the heat disperses elsewhere. Know how many people could survive inhaling 1200 degree air? None. 😐
Combining these two things, if Arbiter inhales, he is doomed, provi9ding there's nothing to suggest his race can actively inhale air of that temperature. Do elites bleed? If there's any water in their system at all, this will boil it, killing him.
Edit: It's also worth noting that if it's the shield that stops such attacks, they do not touch the armour, and the heat is kept away. The shield would probably not stop air.
D= D= D= D=
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ahem. Burden of proof.
is not on me. he made the claim that that inhaling the air would kill the arbiter without any substantiation to it. asking me to prove that inhaling oxygen cant kill the arbiter is... well... you know that is.
and for the record my first post in this thread was in response to a claim that you made... in which i asked you to substantiate... and you couldnt. so the burden really isnt on me. its only my job to disprove what you say xD
Which is 14726.850000000002 degrees C. Fortunately: lightning, which strikes regular people all the time hits 40 000 degrees C. People survive because the strike is brief, and the heat disperses elsewhere.
and when lightning hits you the energy is only going through your system for a fraction of a second (and also things such as insulation and pure luck have to be taken into account, if only the amount of time someone was exposed to the lightning strike mattered then there wouldnt be 70+ deaths from lightning strikes a year) . both elite shielding and spartan shielding has withstood intense heat for much longer and with much shorter intervals in between blasts.
lightning is also unrelated. the temple is not 40 thosuand degrees so what lightning does is inconsequential.
Know how many people could survive inhaling 1200 degree air? None. 😐
the arbiter isnt a person.
Combining these two things, if Arbiter inhales, he is doomed, provi9ding there's nothing to suggest his race can actively inhale air of that temperature. Do elites bleed? If there's any water in their system at all, this will boil it, killing him. [/B]
their blood is also inherently different from ours, proof of which is in the color and viscosity... for all you know it may very well take a much higher temperature to affect elite blood. you also have yet to address my point about him wandering around molten magma caverns and walking through melting ships, both of which would put out super heated gases that could very likely kill a human. i again stress that youve yet to prove that the temple is even a fraction as hot as that enviroment, or even as hot as a regular volcano.
D= D= D= D=FATALITY! 131
is not on me. he made the claim that that inhaling the air would kill the arbiter without any substantiation to it. asking me to prove that inhaling oxygen cant kill the arbiter is... well... you know that is.Is on you if you wish to prove that such temperatures are not harmful to elites.
and when lightning hits you the energy is only going through your system for a fraction of a second. both elite shielding and spartan shielding has withstood intense heat for much longer and with much shorter intervals in between blasts.The sheilding stops the blasts, and the heat disperses a short distance away, and the blasts are brief. It's similar to my lightning example.
the arbiter isnt a person. [/uote] But still follows the sameb asic rules as any complex life form. 😮This is what I'm looking for. What can we draw from this that suggests temperatures in excess of the inside of a giant convection oven beneath the culdera of an active volcano?[quote]you also have yet to address my point about him wandering around molten magma caverns and walking through melting ships, both of which would put out super heated gases that could very likely kill a human. there is no reason to assume that these caverns are any less hot than the temple.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
FATALITY! 131
DO YOU THINK THAT THIS IS A GAME?!?!?! *rhetorical*
Is on you if you wish to prove that such temperatures are not harmful to elites.
i dont need to prove that. i only need to cast doubt upon your assertions!
The sheilding stops the blasts, and the heat disperses a short distance away, and the blasts are brief. It's similar to my lightning example.
how does that suggest that the shields can not protect him from the X heat of the temple? it simply being ever present doesnt mean anything in of itself. if i hold a bottle of warm milk to my wrist for half an hour it will not burn me, even if the heat didnt ever dissipate. before you state that the bottle of milk is not 2100 degrees, keep in mind that i am also not an xenomorphic being that can lift in excess of 60 tons.
But still follows the sameb asic rules as any complex life form.
this is an interesting statement to make. proof?
This is what I'm looking for. What can we draw from this that suggests temperatures in excess of the inside of a giant convection oven beneath the culdera of an active volcano? [/B]
your misdirecting big words aside 313 i asked you first 😉
DO YOU THINK THAT THIS IS A GAME?!?!?!GAME!?! THIS. IS. SPARTA!
i dont need to prove that. i only need to cast doubt upon your assertions!The properties of volcanoes are far better documented thna those of xenos! I have the advantage.
how does that suggest that the shields can not protect him from the X heat of the temple? it simply being ever present doesnt mean anything in of itself. if i hold a bottle of warm milk to my wrist for half an hour it will not burn me, even if the heat didnt ever dissipate. before you state that the bottle of milk is not 2100 degrees, keep in mind that i am also not an xenomorphic being that can lift in excess of 60 tons.For the simple reason that the shield does not create a vaccuum around him. He still is exposed to the air. Also, heat resistance is not equivalent to lifting strength! Lava that's already left the volcano (the only way we can observe it, nothing we can create to monitor lava can withstand it's heat.) gives off 1200 degrees constantly, the air around it is so hot that if you threw a bucket of water at it, it would evaporate before it hit the lava. Hell, a bucket of ice.
this is an interesting statement to make. proof?
If you inflict damage to any of it's central systems, it's body is no longer compatible with life and breaks down. (shoot it, it dies.) It's made from organic materials, each with their own boiling and melting points, and having any of these melted, or boiled, would be lethal.
your misdirecting big words aside 131 i asked you first 😉
Well, the scenario you outlined to not sound more dangerous then being inside an active volcano.
you also have yet to address my point about him wandering around molten magma caverns and walking through melting ships, both of which would put out super heated gases that could very likely kill a human.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
[B]GAME!?! THIS. IS. SPARTA!
our bees will blot out the sun!
The properties of volcanoes are far better documented thna those of xenos!
which proves my point! the question has never been about the heat of a volcano! the question has been if the heat can kill a species that is different from our own.
For the simple reason that the shield does not create a vaccuum around him. He still is exposed to the air.
if this were completely true than objects such as flamethrowers (which primary function is actually to suffocate enemies by eating oxygen not to simply burn people like many would think) would be exceptionally against elites, but it is not. the heat and oxeygn eating ability of the flamethrower does not affect an elite until only after the shields are dissipated.
Also, heat resistance is not equivalent to lifting strength!
. . .If you inflict damage to any of it's central systems, it's body is no longer compatible with life and breaks down. (shoot it, it dies.) It's made from organic materials, each with their own boiling and melting points, and having any of these melted, or boiled, would be lethal.
it was an example to point out that we have different physiologies. elites' bodies can handle the strain of weight better than we can, can take more bullets, move faster, have different blood, two hearts etc. while none of these have direct correlation to heat they are definitive proof that they are different in some ways, which means that there is a possibility that they are different in other ways. for further suggestion the grunts, another alien species, is completely unable to breathe oxygen; its poisonous to them, and that contradicts everything we know about life being able to exist. or at the least, there is no record of any animal on earth that has ever existed that doesn't need oxygen to survive. so if one alien species can do it why not the other? that definitely debunks your assertion that all living things have to abide by certain rules.
Lava that's already left the volcano (the only way we can observe it, nothing we can create to monitor lava can withstand it's heat.) give s off 1200 degrees constantly, the air around it is so hot that if you threw a bucket of water at it, it would evaporate before it hit the lava. Hell, a bucket of ice.
elites are not ice. nor are they water. 😂
A freshly melting ship will not have the same time to stew that the fire temple has, and would not give off the same level of heat. Metals all melt at much lower temperatures than magma gets to.
a freshly melting ship would however give off enough gases to harm a human, which is the point of this discussion. a house or car burning down produces enough noxious gases to kill a human being in minutes. to freely wander about such an area, possibly even inhaling said chemicals, without being adversely affected at all, further casts doubt on the concept of elites being just as vulnerable to contaminated air as humans are.
How long's the magma been there, why is it there, how long was Arbiter there?
i dont know the answer to any of these except for the last question, but it doesnt matter because my argument in this context doesnt hinge upon me knowing. in fact not knowing benefits it. it is never explained how long the ships have been there, nor was it explained how long or why the magma is there. so that means that there is a possibility that they may have been there long enough to generate noxious gases to harm a human being. to say otherwise would essentially be saying that they couldnt have been because if they were that would contradict what youre asserting... which is not an argument 😛
why? you think that a plasma rifle that fires plasma is not designed to withstand high heat? when plasma rifles overheat they become literally so hot that the chief can feel the heat through his armor and has to take his hand off it...
i dont understand the fascination with the volcano itself... its just a volcano. nothing to really fear unless youre a human with nothing on but some green cloth...