Originally posted by Prep-Man
Truth be told, WWH didn't do much that regular Hulk couldn't do. Hulk's healing factor is leagues above anyone on team 1. Being reduced to near skeleton against the U-Foes is an impressive feat or using a thunderclap to light a universe would definetley put a smack down on Diana.Hulk's highs are way ahead of WW, IMO.
oooh ure in trouble!! Tideoftime gonna kick yo @$$ for sayin that. that was some feat though...i remember that...the healing thing that is...
Uhhh... I don't know what my "deal" is... I haven't given Monty Hall my decision yet on whether to pick Door#1, Box#3, or what's in the envelope...
I also am not Quan: I don't have any biases or "slants" in terms of any characters; I seem to be the "Defender of Diana" around here, because a number of posters honestly aren't up to date (and by some of their posts, are about 20+ years out of date) concerning her as a character.
Hulk, generally speaking, doesn't have any strength feats that Diana, more or less, hasn't matched. Beyond helping move the Moon/Earth, she also stopped a mountain-sized meteor from impacting the planet, and showed no signs of strain or duress while doing the latter. Could a thoroughly enraged Hulk win, say, a tug of war vs. WW? Sure. But using such a one-dimensional aspect of character powerset is short-sighted, to say the least.
Of course Hulk (WWH, et al) has superior healing feats over her. It's in his powerset. It's very impressive. And if this were a durability challenge, alone, then I would definitely give it solidly to Hulk. But it isn't. Diana, with CIS/PIS off, can subdue him via the lasso, and at the very least put up a good fight and/or BFR him with little difficulty. That's not bias or "rooting for a favorite character" - that's simply comparing their powersets and feats.
No beef on my part. Not a single post I have ever made is "aggressive" or "fanboish"... well, except maybe a couple mildly heated ones with Quan... but c'mon -- it's Quan. I can't be held accountable for that... 😉
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Hulk has performed fine against people with super speed. His thunderclap would give Diana fits and placing the lasso won't be so easy. Diana is fast, but she's no Flash.
The thunderclap really would not give Diana fits because all she has to do is cross her bracers.
I don't think you need Flash like speed against the Hulk for it to be a significant advantage. Wonder Woman is fast enough and more importantly smart enough to use speed to her effectively.
Arguing powerset vs powerset, WW wins in my opinion. The two advantages Hulk has over WW are strength (eventually) and durability. The only way either of those 2 assets come into play is if she stays grounded and dukes it out with him. Otherwise, WW has a 1-shot win weapon (2 if she's blood lusted) and a better ranged game. She's also a much better fighter and tactician and she has better defenses and mobility.
I see her lasso'ing him before he can KO her more often than not.
Originally posted by tideoftimeI have been called biases for dc characters and marvel characters alike. This in turn means I have no bias whatsoever if you were paying attention.
Uhhh... I don't know what my "deal" is... I haven't given Monty Hall my decision yet on whether to pick Door#1, Box#3, or what's in the envelope...I also am not Quan: I don't have any biases or "slants" in terms of any characters; I seem to be the "Defender of Diana" around here, because a number of posters honestly aren't up to date (and by some of their posts, are about 20+ years out of date) concerning her as a character.
Hulk, generally speaking, doesn't have any strength feats that Diana, more or less, hasn't matched. Beyond helping move the Moon/Earth, she also stopped a mountain-sized meteor from impacting the planet, and showed no signs of strain or duress while doing the latter. Could a thoroughly enraged Hulk win, say, a tug of war vs. WW? Sure. But using such a one-dimensional aspect of character powerset is short-sighted, to say the least.
Of course Hulk (WWH, et al) has superior healing feats over her. It's in his powerset. It's very impressive. And if this were a durability challenge, alone, then I would definitely give it solidly to Hulk. But it isn't. Diana, with CIS/PIS off, can subdue him via the lasso, and at the very least put up a good fight and/or BFR him with little difficulty. That's not bias or "rooting for a favorite character" - that's simply comparing their powersets and feats.
No beef on my part. Not a single post I have ever made is "aggressive" or "fanboish"... well, except maybe a couple mildly heated ones with Quan... but c'mon -- it's Quan. I can't be held accountable for that... 😉
Team 1 wins.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I have been called biases for dc characters and marvel characters alike. This in turn means I have no bias whatsoever if you were paying attention.Team 1 wins.
Oh wow... That's a surprise. You chose a loss for the Mighty Thor?!?!?!?! team 2 man...Thor/Wondy combo is noice.... after they win Thor sexes her up!!!
Originally posted by quanchi112
I have been called biases for dc characters and marvel characters alike. This in turn means I have no bias whatsoever if you were paying attention.Team 1 wins.
No, it means that you have perceived biases for individual characters; or, more accurately, your perception of said characters. Company/publisher have no bearing on my statement, whatsoever. Even more specifically, you have an active bias for your own perceptions, beyond the standard of simply expressing them, and while you are a very good debator, and often correct in many of your assessments, your bias in favor of your own (relatively) uncompromising views is a serious chink in the armor of your debates.
And it is very peculiar that you would pick Team 1 in this scenario, given your other relative views concerning the characters involved, when they are in other fights. Team 2 is the majority winner in this scenario, as WWH, while very powerful, is too relatively one-dimensional when compared to Team 2, and can be taken down/effectively BFR'd (after a fashion), leaving Team 2 to gang up on Orion... and if you think Thor and WW can't (eventually) defeat Orion, then there is *definitely* something amiss in the Land of Oz...
Originally posted by tideoftimeAt least you admitted I am not biased agauinst an entire company.
No, it means that you have perceived biases for individual characters; or, more accurately, your perception of said characters. Company/publisher have no bearing on my statement, whatsoever. Even more specifically, you have an active bias for your own perceptions, beyond the standard of simply expressing them, and while you are a very good debator, and often correct in many of your assessments, your bias in favor of your own (relatively) uncompromising views is a serious chink in the armor of your debates.And it is very peculiar that you would pick Team 1 in this scenario, given your other relative views concerning the characters involved, when they are in other fights. Team 2 is the majority winner in this scenario, as WWH, while very powerful, is too relatively one-dimensional when compared to Team 2, and can be taken down/effectively BFR'd (after a fashion), leaving Team 2 to gang up on Orion... and if you think Thor and WW can't (eventually) defeat Orion, then there is *definitely* something amiss in the Land of Oz...
I think to certain extents everyone carries some bias I just carry very little and your WW bias is so strong you come after me because of it.
Thor hasn't been able to defeat the Hulk and fights Hulk's game against a stronger more intelligent base Hulk. WW gets beat by either Hulk or Orion. Thor needs a better teammate.
Originally posted by quanchi112
At least you admitted I am not biased agauinst an entire company.I think to certain extents everyone carries some bias I just carry very little and your WW bias is so strong you come after me because of it.
Thor hasn't been able to defeat the Hulk and fights Hulk's game against a stronger more intelligent base Hulk. WW gets beat by either Hulk or Orion. Thor needs a better teammate.
Thor does pretty damn good against Hulk when he resorts to his brawling tactics and "fights Hulk's game". I think it's obvious that if the two were to go all out and use everything at their disposal to win, Thor is beyond Hulk. Hulk's primary advantages, strength and durability, aren't enough to put him clearly over a foe who has the base strength and durability to match him for hours on end, and that's to say nothing of the his massive reserves of strength. WWH brings more brains and cunning (still not as good of a warrior as Orion, Thor, or WW though) and higher physical stats, but it's nothing that Thor or even Wonder Woman can't handle. Hulk's a great character and all (barring PIS fueled WWH and Rulk shit) but he's too one dimensional to secure a majority against two foes who have much more to offer aside from physical beatdown, even if that one dimension is great.
I still don't see how WWH can possibly evade or negate the effects of the lasso, myself, nor do I believe he's the greatest thing since sliced bread like Pak wants me to believe.
Originally posted by quanchi112
At least you admitted I am not biased agauinst an entire company.I think to certain extents everyone carries some bias I just carry very little and your WW bias is so strong you come after me because of it.
Thor hasn't been able to defeat the Hulk and fights Hulk's game against a stronger more intelligent base Hulk. WW gets beat by either Hulk or Orion. Thor needs a better teammate.
I never said you were biased against any particular company. Other people throw around accusations like that. I don't.
Every one has "bias" in the sense of perspective, which can change and evolve, especially as other perspectives are taken into account/realized. And I *don't* have a WW bias, at all; ironically, this forum is the only one where I have seemed to have fallen into the position of having to balance other peoples' perspectives of the character. Personally, I think she'd play better on a different scale/setting, but DC has taken her in a different direction over the past two decades, so I just relate stuff as it is revealed. *Your* bias in relation to the character is the "problem", Quan, not mine. *You* perceive her as the WW of several decades ago (contextually speaking), where she was on a much different scaling/level than she is now ( and your interpretations of various battles she's been in, even when given other scans in different threads, is a clear indicator of your bias). I make essentially accurate statements that bring WW into a correct perspective for some people around here -- I don't take her to any greater degree than is clearly indicated in the comics, themselves.
WWH, for all his physical power, is the "weak link" in this battle, not WW. That isn't a question of bias, but of range of ability and powersets as they have been presented. If Orion had a different partner, one who might not even be as strong as WWH, but with a wider range of ability, then there would likely be a very different outcome. But as it stands, Team 2 take this for a majority (not for dominance, not a stomp, and certainly not easily, but they do take it).
Originally posted by JakeTheBankI agree Thor wins if he uses his best stuff. I don't see him doing so against the Hulk because in their long standing rivalry Thor hasn't used these kinds of powerful attacks before and desperately wants to beat his head in physically.
Thor does pretty damn good against Hulk when he resorts to his brawling tactics and "fights Hulk's game". I think it's obvious that if the two were to go all out and use everything at their disposal to win, Thor is beyond Hulk. Hulk's primary advantages, strength and durability, aren't enough to put him clearly over a foe who has the base strength and durability to match him for hours on end, and that's to say nothing of the his massive reserves of strength. WWH brings more brains and cunning (still not as good of a warrior as Orion, Thor, or WW though) and higher physical stats, but it's nothing that Thor or even Wonder Woman can't handle. Hulk's a great character and all (barring PIS fueled WWH and Rulk shit) but he's too one dimensional to secure a majority against two foes who have much more to offer aside from physical beatdown, even if that one dimension is great.I still don't see how WWH can possibly evade or negate the effects of the lasso, myself, nor do I believe he's the greatest thing since sliced bread like Pak wants me to believe.
Hulk in planet Hulk showed he's an incredible warrior and maybe not up to the likes of Thor but considering their long standing rivalry he doesn't have to be because of his increasing strength and healing ability. Hell, if Hulk tells Thor he can't beat him without his hammer Thor is prideful enough to toss it aside. That's something I could see this tactful Hulk employing as well.
A few thunderclaps would negate WW's long range attacks. Once he connects she goes down fast and hard.
Originally posted by tideoftimeWe've gone over this before and you view the issue 219 fight completely out of context imo. To me it showed me Superman can ko her with an all out punch. You dismissed the circumstances of why she got back in and how she later won but that's neither here nor there.
I never said you were biased against any particular company. Other people throw around accusations like that. I don't.Every one has "bias" in the sense of perspective, which can change and evolve, especially as other perspectives are taken into account/realized. And I *don't* have a WW bias, at all; ironically, this forum is the only one where I have seemed to have fallen into the position of having to balance other peoples' perspectives of the character. Personally, I think she'd play better on a different scale/setting, but DC has taken her in a different direction over the past two decades, so I just relate stuff as it is revealed. *Your* bias in relation to the character is the "problem", Quan, not mine. *You* perceive her as the WW of several decades ago (contextually speaking), where she was on a much different scaling/level than she is now ( and your interpretations of various battles she's been in, even when given other scans in different threads, is a clear indicator of your bias). I make essentially accurate statements that bring WW into a correct perspective for some people around here -- I don't take her to any greater degree than is clearly indicated in the comics, themselves.
WWH, for all his physical power, is the "weak link" in this battle, not WW. That isn't a question of bias, but of range of ability and powersets as they have been presented. If Orion had a different partner, one who might not even be as strong as WWH, but with a wider range of ability, then there would likely be a very different outcome. But as it stands, Team 2 take this for a majority (not for dominance, not a stomp, and certainly not easily, but they do take it).
I see everyone in this fight as stronger than her. Team 2 is the most skilled team but the way Thor fights the Hulk it won't matter as they are going to trade blow for blow.
Either Orion or WW Hulk beats WW very quickly once they start connecting.