Gambit versus Daredevil...

Originally posted by Robtard
So you're going to ignore the movie-feats rule when it suits you and just decide Gambit can do something now.

I did already, Gambit needs to charge for a bit, he'll have a mouth-full of grapple before.

Nah, you brought in a feat and compared it to Gambit, I merely countered it and crushed it. Like a big ass zit yo.

Again, I already proved Gambit is too fast for DD to hit with the grapple. He is way faster than Kingpin.

Lose the grapple hook attack theory, Rob, it's done, it's polishing brass on the Titanic.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah, you brought in a feat and compared it to Gambit, I merely countered it and crushed it. Like a big ass zit yo.

Again, I already proved Gambit is too fast for DD to hit with the grapple. He is way faster than Kingpin.

Lose the grapple hook attack theory, Rob, it's done, it's polishing brass on the Titanic.

No, you're taking an attribute from one character and applying it to another, because you need to.

You should stick to the rules and go with movie-feats, Gambit didn't do it on screen, he's not doing it in this fight.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, you're taking an attribute from one character and applying it to another, because you need to.

You should stick to the rules and go with movie-feats, Gambit didn't do it on screen, he's not doing it in this fight.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Doesn't do what? Display the speed and agility needed to avoid the grapple hook? Because the vid I posted says otherwise. Big time.

Repeat: Did Gambit avoid something coming at him that had equal or greater speed than DD's grapple-hook travels? If so, sure.

The Movie-Feats rule, abide it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Repeat: Did Gambit avoid something coming at him that had equal or greater speed than DD's grapple-hook travels? If so, sure.

The Movie-Feats rule, abide it.

Hey, did DD ever CONNECT with anyone with the grapple hook attack?

Well, I think it really comes down to whether Gambit's explosions would disorient DD, if they do he'll most likely win.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
His reaction time and fighting speed while fighting Logan is all the proof you need.

Hey, did DD ever CONNECT with anyone with the grapple hook attack?

Logan wasn't some speedster and iirc, Logan was quick enough to knock his ass out with a simple backhand. So no, what you said isn't proof and you're still ignoring the movie-feats rule.

King Pin blocked it, but I'm pretty sure he did hit someone else with it earlier on. Either way, this has nothing to do with your inability to show Gambit being able to dodge the grapple-hook. While I can show that DD can time bullets.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'd say that's points to a huge CIS for DD's abilities.

No it is in no way CIS.

Originally posted by dadudemon

You've got that backwards. In versus fights, CIS or PIS is thrown out. That's supposed to be a weakness. It is a weakness. CIS, literally, be damned.

Again, incorrect. CIS is always in play unless specified otherwise. PIS is not in play, but I wonder why you pointed this out as it works against you? Daredevil's senses being messed up even though previously shown that it shouldn't is an example of PIS. If this PIS is removed, then DD's so-called weakness is a non-factor in this fight.

Originally posted by dadudemon

The "pain" showed by DD and the disorientation is made quite clear, is stylized, and is definitely a weakness. Other items that contradict that is just CIS/PIS.

You've got it. Except, you've got it backwards. You are saying it hurt him when the plot called for it when it's the opposite: it didn't hurt him when they plot called for it.

Wrong. There is no way DD being unaffected by gunfire sounds was PIS. DD has been kicking ass for years, you think he only dealt with "no-weapons" situations? Anyone with basic knowledge of the character would know he has taken down countless thugs while they were firing their weapons.

Also more importantly, the gunfight scene precedes all others that you are using as evidence. When discussing PIS, earlier feats are always accounted for first, unless a retcon is involved which is not the case here.

....

With that out of the way, I'd probably give it to Gambit. He has range, and more firepower. If DD gets close, Gambit's chances probably go down a bit, however if manages to land a hit on DD with his charged staff its game-over right there.

Originally posted by Robtard
Logan wasn't some speedster and iirc, Logan was quick enough to knock his ass out with a simple backhand. So no, what you said isn't proof and you're still ignoring the movie-feats rule.

King Pin blocked it, but I'm pretty sure he did hit someone else with it earlier on. Either way, this has nothing to do with your inability to show Gambit being able to dodge the grapple-hook. While I can show that DD can time bullets.

Logan hit him with adamantium, babe 🙄 And Logan was as quick as DD, don't be stupid.

Again with the grapple hook....is that all you got? Cuz it's getting boring. I keep proving over and over and over and over and over that Gambit can and would avoid it, but you aren't listening. Either you're not paying attention, or you are trolling. Which is it?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Logan hit him with adamantium, babe 🙄 And Logan was as quick as DD, don't be stupid.

Again with the grapple hook....is that all you got? Cuz it's getting boring. I keep proving over and over and over and over and over that Gambit can and would avoid it, but you aren't listening. Either you're not paying attention, or you are trolling. Which is it?

Gambit still wasn't fast enough to dodge that. DD timed bullets, Logan just takes them and heals, so no, not even close. Also, this is the grappling-hook's rate of speed.

You've yet to prove a thing, as you're not abding the movie-feats rule and are giving Gambit attributes another character possessed.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Logan hit him with adamantium, babe 🙄 And Logan was as quick as DD, don't be stupid.

You'd have to think about something you've said previously with this in mind...Namely Gambit knocking Wolverine through the wall with the deck of cards. It's perhaps more likely that it was because of Wolverine's Adamantium skeleton that he went through the wall. Considerable extra mass plus more dense and durable material. Perhaps unlikely (or at the very least less likely) that he'd have went through the wall without the Adamantium.

So perhaps that feat wouldn't have the same effect on DD.

Just a thought.

Originally posted by Robtard
Gambit still wasn't fast enough to dodge that. DD timed bullets, Logan just takes them and heals, so no, not even close. Also, this is the grappling-hook's rate of speed.

You've yet to prove a thing, as you're not abding the movie-feats rule and are giving Gambit attributes another character possessed.

DD used the grapple hook attack once against someone slower than Gambit, that's a fact. The grapple hook failed on the slower opponent, that's a fact. Gambit is way faster than said slower opponent, that's a fact.

Are you denying these facts?

Originally posted by jaden101
You'd have to think about something you've said previously with this in mind...Namely Gambit knocking Wolverine through the wall with the deck of cards. It's perhaps more likely that it was because of Wolverine's Adamantium skeleton that he went through the wall. Considerable extra mass plus more dense and durable material. Perhaps unlikely (or at the very least less likely) that he'd have went through the wall without the Adamantium.

So perhaps that feat wouldn't have the same effect on DD.

Just a thought.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Of course. DD would end up with a cracked skull, the wall would probably stay intact.

Wolverine didn't hit the wall head 1st...It also wouldn't be any different from falling from the same height (about 20ft by the look of it)

Easily survivable and likely without injury...So your original assertion that it would kill DD is most likely wrong.

Although, admittidly, I haven't seen DD so don't know what feats of durability he has to compare with that situation.

Originally posted by jaden101
Wolverine didn't hit the wall head 1st...It also wouldn't be any different from falling from the same height (about 20ft by the look of it)

Easily survivable and likely without injury...So your original assertion that it would kill DD is most likely wrong.

Although, admittidly, I haven't seen DD so don't know what feats of durability he has to compare with that situation.

The rate of speed at which DD would have been travelling when he hits the wall, the whiplash makes his head smash into the wall, likely a cracked skull.

DD has major damage soak, but he hurts, he bleeds, he goes home and pops painkillers.

You should see DD, it's not as bad as people say it is.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Whiplash, dude.

The rate of speed at which DD would have been travelling when he hits the wall, the whiplash makes his head smash into the wall, likely a cracked skull.

DD has major damage soak, but he hurts, he bleeds, he goes home and pops painkillers.

You should see DD, it's not as bad as people say it is.

Still scripting though. Could just as easily say he wouldn't get seriously injured. "Major damage soak" would point in that direction.

Can't say it's a film I'll be in any hurry to see. I'm generally not a fan of comic book movies. Even the ones that most people consider great (Dark Knight, Ironman etc) never mind those which are considered steaming piles of dung.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
DD used the grapple hook attack once against someone slower than Gambit, that's a fact. The grapple hook failed on the slower opponent, that's a fact. Gambit is way faster than said slower opponent, that's a fact.

Are you denying these facts?

You're still ignoring the movie-feats rule; that's a fact.

Originally posted by Placidity
No it is in no way CIS.

Actually, it's the very definition of CIS. Just because you want me to be wrong, doesn't mean what you say will be correct: I have to actually be wrong.

Originally posted by Placidity
Again, incorrect. CIS is always in play unless specified otherwise. PIS is not in play, but I wonder why you pointed this out as it works against you? Daredevil's senses being messed up even though previously shown that it shouldn't is an example of PIS. If this PIS is removed, then DD's so-called weakness is a non-factor in this fight.

No it is not. Each character fights at:

1. Intended ability.

2. Full ability.

CIS and PIS are to be discarded unless otherwise stated. That is a universally understood versus rule at KMC and many other forums. And, if you REALLY want to bark up that tree, all RJ has to say is the CIS is out: on with guns hurting his ears (like it should have.)

You should have at least tried the stupid route AC did and pretend that the CIS was getting disoriented by the explosions...at least it's a tad more logical.

Originally posted by Placidity
Wrong. There is no way DD being unaffected by gunfire sounds was PIS. DD has been kicking ass for years, you think he only dealt with "no-weapons" situations? Anyone with basic knowledge of the character would know he has taken down countless thugs while they were firing their weapons.

Wrong.

Gunfire not disorienting him is a huge example of CIS. If you paid attention at the beginning of the film, it's quite obvious really loud noises are his weakness.

And, you're trying to contradict a point by using...."basic knowledge" which is comic book bullshit. GTF outta wit dat shit.

Originally posted by Placidity
Also more importantly, the gunfight scene precedes all others that you are using as evidence. When discussing PIS, earlier feats are always accounted for first, unless a retcon is involved which is not the case here.

You're incorrect, though. The "hurting ears" and "disorientation" occurs before any of that.

Major fail.

Originally posted by Placidity
With that out of the way, I'd probably give it to Gambit. He has range, and more firepower. If DD gets close, Gambit's chances probably go down a bit, however if manages to land a hit on DD with his charged staff its game-over right there.

Nothing is out of the way. The only thing you succeeded in doing is:

1. Showing a very incorrect understanding of CIS.

2. Limited knowledge of DD, the movie.

3. A fail attempt reference to the comics.

4. Wasting my time.

Your goal was mostly #4 because you like to troll me.

I don't mind because I'm tired of writing about SuSE.

Edit - I now see why I don't come around here, very often. No offense, RJ, but it's either RJ not listening to reason, or everyone ganging up on RJ when he's correct with the occasional troll and awesome thread by Placidity.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Nothing is out of the way. The only thing you succeeded in doing is:

1. Showing a very incorrect understanding of CIS.

2. Limited knowledge of DD, the movie.

3. A fail attempt reference to the comics.

4. Wasting my time.

No. Wrong again. You have no idea what you are talking about.

From KMC Comics VS RULES

No Mentioning Events of PIS Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman. Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb. Examples of the CIS-afflicted include characters such as Rhino or Jar Jar Binks. Events of CIS are not exempt from debates.

As per above:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Actually, it's the very definition of CIS. Just because you want me to be wrong, doesn't mean what you say will be correct: I have to actually be wrong.

Rubbish.

Originally posted by dadudemon

CIS and PIS are to be discarded unless otherwise stated. That is a universally understood versus rule at KMC and many other forums.

Rubbish.

Originally posted by dadudemon

You should have at least tried the stupid route AC did and pretend that the CIS was getting disoriented by the explosions...at least it's a tad more logical.

Rubbish. Clearly shows you don't know what CIS is.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Wrong.

Yes you are.

Summary:

Originally posted by dadudemon

1. Showing a very incorrect understanding of CIS.

You have no understanding of what CIS is, and that it does apply in KMC debates.

Originally posted by dadudemon

2. Limited knowledge of DD, the movie.

Anyone who says gunfire disorientates DD has no knowledge of DD.

Originally posted by dadudemon

3. A fail attempt reference to the comics.

W/e.

Originally posted by dadudemon

4. Wasting my time.

Wasting my time having to explain basic things like CIS to you.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're still ignoring the movie-feats rule; that's a fact.