Originally posted by RobtardIt did happen onscreen, Gambit showed the speed/agility/athleticism needed to avoid the grapple hook. The entire fight with Wolvie is proof of this.
Go look back to the rule, believe Imp stated "if it didn't happen on screen, it doesn't count."So you giving Gambit something that King Pin did, isn't allowed here. Not hard to see.
The grapple hook attack happened onscreen, in Daredevil. You and AC brought it into the argument. Gambit is faster than Kingpin is. Kingpin avoided the attack, so Gambit can do so in his sleep. I am giving Gambit nothing of Kingpin's, I am merely saying Gambit is faster than him.
It's so telling how Dudemon blames everyone for doing what only he does.
"This is why I don't come around here.". That's really no incentive to act any different, then. You're a terrible debater. You ignore what suits you and reply to things only to say: "Nah, you're wrong.", even if someone has you beat.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It did happen onscreen, Gambit showed the speed/agility/athleticism needed to avoid the grapple hook. The entire fight with Wolvie is proof of this.The grapple hook attack happened onscreen, in Daredevil. You and AC brought it into the argument. Gambit is faster than Kingpin is. Kingpin avoided the attack, so Gambit can do so in his sleep. I am giving Gambit nothing of Kingpin's, I am merely saying Gambit is faster than him.
Daredevil is as fast and as agile as Gambit.
This whole fight, as Bardock said, depends on Gambit's ability to disorientate Daredevil.
I don't believe that's as likely as you claim. Nobody's ignoring "pwnage", because "pwnage" isn't factually occuring.
The church bells, the train; these were continual, prolonged sounds at extremely close range. The explosion was not continual or prolonged.
It was in slow motion and didn't even last long then. The disorientation lasted as his club flew by him and was more or less over by the time it hit Natchios. He wasn't rolling around clutching his ears.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's so telling how Dudemon blames everyone for doing what only he does."This is why I don't come around here.". That's really no incentive to act any different, then. You're a terrible debater. You ignore what suits you and reply to things only to say: "Nah, you're wrong.", even if someone has you beat.
Daredevil is as fast and as agile as Gambit.
This whole fight, as Bardock said, depends on Gambit's ability to disorientate Daredevil.
I don't believe that's as likely as you claim. Nobody's ignoring "pwnage", because "pwnage" isn't factually occuring.
The church bells, the train; these were continual, prolonged sounds at extremely close range. The explosion was not continual or prolonged.
It was in slow motion and didn't even last long then. The disorientation lasted as his club flew by him and was more or less over by the time it hit Natchios. He wasn't rolling around clutching his ears.
-AC
I agreed with you already that the inconsistency of certain loud sounds messing with his senses was....well, inconsistent. The bells, the gunshots, etc;
But the one time an explosion occurred in his general vicinity, his radar sense was fried. And it was at least 40 feet away, and much smaller than the explosions that Gambit can potentially create. If there was another scene in which an explosion did NOT mess with his senses, then yeah, I'd agree that MAYBE Gambit's explosions would have zero effect. But, as it stands, the one time there was an explosion, DD was way disoriented.
Bigger explosions, at close range (5, 10, 15 feet, If they do not in fact hit DD), and the effect it has on DD will be that much more severe and long lasting. If Gambit strikes near DD with a charged card and it temporarily disorients DD, many more cards are coming, the staff will be jammed into the ground, DD will be no more.
Originally posted by Placidity
No. Wrong again. You have no idea what you are talking about.From KMC Comics VS RULES
As per above:
GTF outta here with that comic sh*t.
Even if you try to argue what CIS is, that is missing the entire point, on the most literal level.
Congrats.
And, the real definition of CIS: When a character does or does not do something not within or within their ability, respectively.
Originally posted by Placidity
Rubbish.
Nuh-uh!
Originally posted by Placidity
Rubbish.
Nuh-uh!
Originally posted by Placidity
Rubbish. Clearly shows you don't know what CIS is.
Nuh-uh! Clearly shows that you've missed the point if you think this is an argument about which nerdy definition is more correct.
Clearly shows that you're applying KMC's definition of something that was invented by nerds in the early 00's. (KMC's also coincides with Marvel forum's definition. Did you know that?)
Originally posted by Placidity
Yes you are.
I know you are but what am I?
Summary:
Originally posted by Placidity
You have no understanding of what CIS is, and that it does apply in KMC debates.
You clearly have no idea what the point was and should know better than to pretend that DD's CIS/PIS should be discarded.
Originally posted by Placidity
Anyone who says gunfire disorientates DD has no knowledge of DD.
Anyone who pretends that the comic book version has any place in a movie versus debate, has no knowledge of the movie versus forum rules and also didn't pay attention to the film.
Summary: I know you are but what am I?
Originally posted by Placidity
W/e.
*rolls eyes and flicks hair*
Originally posted by Placidity
Wasting my time having to explain basic things like CIS to you.
Yeah, 'cause explaining CIS is exactly what the point was, right? 🙂
Wait, so...Dudemon, are you actually suggesting that gunfire disorientates Daredevil?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yes, they are close to being on par with each other in speed, if not exactly on par.I agreed with you already that the inconsistency of certain loud sounds messing with his senses was....well, inconsistent. The bells, the gunshots, etc;
But the one time an explosion occurred in his general vicinity, his radar sense was fried. And it was at least 40 feet away, and much smaller than the explosions that Gambit can potentially create. If there was another scene in which an explosion did NOT mess with his senses, then yeah, I'd agree that MAYBE Gambit's explosions would have zero effect. But, as it stands, the one time there was an explosion, DD was way disoriented.
Bigger explosions, at close range (5, 10, 15 feet, If they do not in fact hit DD), and the effect it has on DD will be that much more severe and long lasting. If Gambit strikes near DD with a charged card and it temporarily disorients DD, many more cards are coming, the staff will be jammed into the ground, DD will be no more.
Yeah, I'm gonna skip the "He will, it will, this will happens." nonsense.
It doesn't need to be zero effect, but it does need to affect him long enough for Gambit to do something about it. Daredevil had recovered by the time his club had flown by him.
Additionally, even in the subway, it's proven that when accosted by loud noise, he can get around it by creating another noise that maps his surroundings out clearer.
Also, from what I remember, Gambit's were not "explosions". There wasn't anything exploding like Bullseye's bike. It was a shockwave. Daredevil's senses work off that kind of thing, hence why he can detect heartbeats.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's so telling how Dudemon blames everyone for doing what only he does.
More trolling by you via baiting. Reported.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"This is why I don't come around here.". That's really no incentive to act any different, then. You're a terrible debater. You ignore what suits you and reply to things only to say: "Nah, you're wrong.", even if someone has you beat.
The opposite is true. You've clearly been beaten but, as usual, refuse to admit it. Instead, you are reverting to more trolling. What a shock.
I'm not baiting you, at all. I addressed you directly, by name.
How could I possibly bait you anyway? Baiting implies that I'm trying to manipulate you into replying to me and I'm not, nor could I. I don't control you.
I guess I'll just continue having my more reasonable discussion with RJ if you can't be civil or sensible about things.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriWe're talking circles, dude. I know where you stand, you know where I stand. I really don't wanna do this for ten pages, do you?
Wait, so...Dudemon, are you actually suggesting that gunfire disorientates Daredevil?Yeah, I'm gonna skip the "He will, it will, this will happens." nonsense.
It doesn't need to be zero effect, but it does need to affect him long enough for Gambit to do something about it. Daredevil had recovered by the time his club had flown by him.
Additionally, even in the subway, it's proven that when accosted by loud noise, he can get around it by creating another noise that maps his surroundings out clearer.
Also, from what I remember, Gambit's were not "explosions". There wasn't anything exploding like Bullseye's bike. It was a shockwave. Daredevil's senses work off that kind of thing, hence why he can detect heartbeats.
-AC
As for the shockwave thing, Gambit blew an entire alley to shit and threw Logan and Creed back 30 feet with the shockwave of the explosion when he jammed his cane into the ground.
Originally posted by Robtard
Go look back to the rule, believe Imp stated "if it didn't happen on screen, it doesn't count."So you giving Gambit something that King Pin did, isn't allowed here. Not hard to see.
I understand what both of you are saying.
However, the point of versus debates is to compare two movies.
Obviously, Gambit never defeated DD so by your logic, we can say that Gambit cannot defeat DD because he wasn't seen defeating a superhuman with echo-location. The argument you are using is a slippery-slope.
RJ tried the same thing and it doesn't make for any sort of versus debate, at all.
If you do not think Gambit has the reaction speed to dodge the hook, provie it with an on-screen reflex feat from Gambit: bring up a feat where he doesn't react fast enough.
If RJ can counter with a feat where he reacts faster than that, then your point would be null as we go by best showings, not lowest.
In other words, you (and RJ) need to literally prove whether or not Gambit can dodge, based on King Pin's reaction feat. This isn't the typical "I don't have to prove a negative beacuse that's illogical." That's not how it works when each side can prove their point on the most literal level: either: Gambit has a reaction that is equal to or faster than King Pin's it is greater than King Pin's. It's not really proving a "negative." It's proving a positive.
Actually, the burden of proof is on the person that first claimed that the hook would "hook" Gambit. They have to prove that it goes from point A to point B faster than Gambit's best reaction feat.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not baiting you, at all. I addressed you directly, by name.How could I possibly bait you anyway? Baiting implies that I'm trying to manipulate you into replying to me and I'm not, nor could I. I don't control you.
I guess I'll just continue having my more reasonable discussion with RJ if you can't be civil or sensible about things.
-AC
Odd that you're pretending to not know what baiting is when you do it all the time. And, being civil and sensible would not be what you're doing.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It did happen onscreen, Gambit showed the speed/agility/athleticism needed to avoid the grapple hook. The entire fight with Wolvie is proof of this.The grapple hook attack happened onscreen, in Daredevil. You and AC brought it into the argument. Gambit is faster than Kingpin is. Kingpin avoided the attack, so Gambit can do so in his sleep. I am giving Gambit nothing of Kingpin's, I am merely saying Gambit is faster than him.
From a logical standpoint, I agree with you, but that's not how the rules work here (you know this) and if it suited your argument, you'd follow them to the letter, but you're not now; only because it doesn't suit you.
Originally posted by dadudemon
And, the real definition of CIS: When a character does or does not do something not within or within their ability, respectively.
Actually, I do think that is wrong. That would be PIS, because the character does something (or not) that isn't within their abity (or is) in order to advance the plot, make it work out the way the writer wants it to go. Meaning the stupidity (or unlikely ability) of the character is induced by the needs of the plot.
CIS does make more sense as being seen a stupidity that the character actually has, Batman's "no killing" rule perhaps being a good example.
Of course CIS and PIS have at times been used differently, but honestly this makes the most sense as it means there's actually a valid difference between the two and that difference is derived from the words it stands for.
Ok, this debate has gotten out of hand and some posters have proved incapable of being civil.
To that end, please heed the following declarations.
- Regardless of how it may or may not be used elsewhere, it is clear that dadude's interpretation of CIS does not match how it is used around KMC. We'll stick to how it is used here, thanks, and try not to be so hasty on accusing others of not doing things the way they are done at KMC without checking first.
- That said... it is clear that by the rules of these forums, RJ's claims about Daredevil are in essence correct. It is very clear in the films that explosions stun DD (how that works or does not work with guns is irrelevant- it is not only clear but also exceedingly important to the film that explosions DO disable him), and it is equally clear that Gambit can cause explosions. Argue as much as you like about who hits first, but it it pointless to deny that RJ has invoked a legitimate edge for Gambit.
If you don't like any of that- sorry. Stay out of the thread. Uncivil debates cause restrictions.
Overly hostile posting attitudes are under the spotlight again, so a warning to all there. If you have any responses to the above, make them in private.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Actually, I do think that is wrong. That would be PIS, because the character does something (or not) that isn't within their abity (or is) in order to advance the plot, make it work out the way the writer wants it to go. Meaning the stupidity (or unlikely ability) of the character is induced by the needs of the plot.CIS does make more sense as being seen a stupidity that the character actually has, Batman's "no killing" rule perhaps being a good example.
Of course CIS and PIS have at times been used differently, but honestly this makes the most sense as it means there's actually a valid difference between the two and that difference is derived from the words it stands for.
CIS becomes PIS when the CIS event furthers PIS.
CIS can also just further the plot, not just something stupid in the plot.
For instance, the plot calls for the hero to discover something about the murderer: he can discover it in one of two ways:
1. Ask for it and get it. (Not PIS.)
2. Beat up people that he shouldn't be able to beat up. (CIS, but still not PIS because he still gets the information required to furthe the plot.)
PIS would be if he got that information from sone that shouldn't have known.
But, Ush has spoken about how it's going to be. I don't care which way you guys want it ...but we do know that Gun shots didn't hurt him. That's stupid and inconsistant. Call it PIS, CIS, or just plain ol' "stupid." That's the point. Don't miss it for the sake of an irrelevant argument.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriWell, it's kinda like Force precog. Why didn't Vader sense the Falcon at the battle of Yavin? Or force speed, why didn't the Jedi/Sith use it all the time?
As I said, RJ; the fact that he was affected by explosions was important to the film/plot.I personally don't consider plot point induced weaknesses to be consistent, you do. We'll agree to disagree there. It's not a big deal.
-AC
Shit like that bugs me, almost as much as holes in a plot.
What gets me even more riled is when dumb decisions are made. like why did Yoda decide to face Sidious alone? He and Obi should have faced Sidious together, then faced Anakin together.
But I digress, I went WAY off topic with this post, apologies.
Originally posted by dadudemon
And, the real definition of CIS: When a character does or does not do something not within or within their ability, respectively.
Wrong. Find a source that supports what you say (you can't). If you actually genuinely think CIS is what you described as above, then not only are you incorrect, but not very smart. Even based on just logical thinking alone - how can it be due to "Stupidity" that a character shows something NOT within their abilities? Exactly.
The Definition of CIS is the same in any forum, KMC Comics Vs or otherwise, so please don't try to sidetrack a losing argument.
You have been proven wrong beyond doubt and yet you still try to retort with lies and things that just aren't true at all.
What was that thing you said awhile ago about being to accept when you are wrong?
If you want to reply with another pathetic "No my definition is right", please quote a source, otherwise I will assume you admit defeat and are just trolling.