Soul Reaver vs. Master Sword (Actually it's Raziel vs. Link)

Originally posted by Burning thought
Fanon is the only thing you seem to have actually....

If they were then in a few jumps Raziel could make great distance between them both, and his thread only sucks because Raziel is not truly defeatable here. Yeh, thats fanon because his spells are fine.

What are you talking about? I just pointed out Raziel did the same as the Sages, only Raziel does not even have to use magic for it.....and their attempt was truly poor, if their supposed to powerful magically they would have done more than that. Do they even have feats?

Right. 🙄

No, he can be beaten. It doesn't matter if he comes back right away or not. And they are useless. Whether you think it's fanon or not, the MS can reflect his spells.

That is not even close to the same as the Sages. He levitated a sword, the Sages have done far more with their powers throughout Hyrule history.

The Sages are definitely powerful, but they can't match Ganon with his Triforce of Power.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Right. 🙄

No, he can be beaten. It doesn't matter if he comes back right away or not. And they are useless. Whether you think it's fanon or not, the MS can reflect his spells.

That is not even close to the same as the Sages. He levitated a sword, the Sages have done far more with their powers throughout Hyrule history.

The Sages are definitely powerful, but they can't match Ganon with his Triforce of Power.

Your not defeated if you can re-materialise as soon as your down. The MS cannot, its never done so to AOE and its not shown to do it to anything thats not a slow moving bolt, in gameplay no less.

You keep giving me ambigous answers like "done far more with their powers" but never an actual feat.

Then how did they seal him despite him having the trueforce in link to the past.

Then how did they seal him despite him having the trueforce in link to the past.

This is not stated, show Link sealing Ganon at the beginning of Link to the past. Link only fights Ganon in the Dark realm after defeating Agahnim.

Theres no menstion of him being with the wise sages and knights of hyrule.

facepalm
Imprisoning war = the game before aLttP. ..Or OoT. Most likely OoT.
Knights of Hyrule = Link's blood line.
Master Sword = Link was there.
Sages = Work with Link to seal Ganon.

Ganon does not have the trueforce in OoT though.....he does in aLttP

Link does not even get the MS until the end, he actually defeats Ganon it seems and only takes a final strike with the MS, the sages do the rest of the work. Who btw seem quite week, reading about them in Zeldapedia and apprently they are almost always imprisoned in some dungeon, some "power magic users" they are, even Zelda who is at risk in almost all the games is helpless despite being the leader of them.

reading about them in Zeldapedia

Link does not even get the MS until the end, he actually defeats Ganon it seems and only takes a final strike with the MS, the sages do the rest of the work.

Ganon does not have the trueforce in OoT though.....he does in aLttP

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Play a damn game.

See above. Play a game. This is wrong.

Nintendo made aLttP several years before OoT and hadn't planned to make OoT yet.

What like youve bothered to do with Soulreaver? 🙄 I dont have to play the game, you should provide the evidence. Your not, so Zeldapedia is doing it for me.

Its not wrong, Link loses his MS for almost the whole fight until the very end....

He knocks the Master Sword out of Link's hand, and Link is forced to fight him with other weapons. After damaging Ganon enough, Link retrieves the Master Sword, and with the help of Princess Zelda, deals a finishing blow to the monstrous creature.

How does that explain the fact he still has it in aLttP, also assuming aLttp never happened or the games before it because OoT is the first canon game then when does Ganon even get to use the triforce, all those feats of him making the darkworld no longer exist, nor does that daft slow bolts repel vid you showed.

Its not wrong, Link loses his MS for almost the whole fight until the very end....

Link uses the master sword to mess up Ganondorf before Ganon even collapses the castle.

How does that explain the fact he still has it in aLttP, also assuming aLttp never happened or the games before it because OoT is the first canon game then when does Ganon even get to use the triforce, all those feats of him making the darkworld no longer exist, nor does that daft slow bolts repel vid you showed.

We had it straight from Shiggy, the guy who invented Zelda, that OoT was the imprisoning war. Then he got drunk with soem friends and decided to split the timeline with WW and TP. Now either one could be the imprisoning war. Why Ganon has trhe full triforce is never explained, Nintendo just wanted him to.

Also, I didn't post a slow bolt repel vid? The vid I posted where you commented slow bolts, which was lol-worthy, btw, was The Legend of Zelda. Annnd that game was created in 1986, if you're actually going to try and use a gameplay mechanic from 1986 as evidence, gtfo right now.

ANNND Ganon was invisible during that fight. It's the second last game in the series, and Ganon only has the triforce of power.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Wrong.

Link uses the master sword to mess up Ganondorf before Ganon even collapses the castle.

They're both canon, you tool.

We had it straight from Shiggy, the guy who invented Zelda, that OoT was the imprisoning war. Then he got drunk with soem friends and decided to split the timeline with WW and TP. Now either one could be the imprisoning war. Why Ganon has trhe full triforce is never explained, Nintendo just wanted him to.

Also, I didn't post a slow bolt repel vid? The vid I posted where you commented slow bolts, which was lol-worthy, btw, was The Legend of Zelda. Annnd that game was created in 1986, if you're actually going to try and use a gameplay mechanic from 1986 as evidence, gtfo right now.

I am talking about the beast form at the end, but your going off point, point is Ganon is defeated without the MS. Link just used the MS for a finisher.

They cant both be canon when we have the trueforce being defeated by weak old sorcerors in one, and Link defeating Ganon with and without the MS in another when hes not got the trueforce. If their supposed to be the same event then one has to be more canon, obviously OoT is. regardless it does not change my points, it could just harm yours.

I am not the one trying to use it as evidence remember, you posted it and your the one trying to use it for evidence.

I am talking about the beast form at the end, but your going off point, point is Ganon is defeated without the MS. Link just used the MS for a finisher.

They cant both be canon when we have the trueforce being defeated by weak old sorcerors in one, and Link defeating Ganon with and without the MS in another when hes not got the trueforce. If their supposed to be the same event then one has to be more canon, obviously OoT is. regardless it does not change my points, it could just harm yours.

haermm now you're claiming aLttP Isn't canon, GJ. 😆

I am not the one trying to use it as evidence remember, you posted it and your the one trying to use it for evidence.

I proved my point though, Link can fight invisible enemies far, far more powerful than Raziel, and win.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ganon was knocked over without it, not defeated.

haermm now you're claiming aLttP Isn't canon, GJ. 😆

You tried to use the fact that the magic attacks on screen weren't light speed and didn't take up the whole top-down 2d 8bit screen as some sort of evidence that Ganon was weak. /Eyeroll. 😆

I proved my point though, Link can fight invisible enemies far, far more powerful than Raziel, and win.

Depends on how your using "defeat", you dont have to be killed to be defeated. He was knocked down, then Link just stabbed him in the head a few times with the MS.

No I said "they cant both" be canon, so one of them is uncanon since they cant both be the imprisoing war. If their both canon then you saying "link woz there!" is pointless since hes not even mentioned as the one who seals Ganon at all in Link to the past, only the old men do it and they overpower a trueforce wielding Ganon to do it 😆 these are the same sages who get locked up in dungeons by all kinds of daft little enemies and who are helpless without Link to keep saving them, especially Zelda.

Their slow moving bolts, simple fact. if you dont want to use that piece of gameplay then go find a cutscene instead. Its your fault for posting it.

Ganons not as powerful as Raziel in your vid, his attacks consist of little bolts. Thats what your gameplay vid shows, not a canon cutscene.

No I said "they cant both" be canon, so one of them is uncanon since they cant both be the imprisoing war.

aLttP is /after/ the imprisoning war. Reading comprehension ftw.

He was knocked down, then Link just stabbed him in the head a few times with the MS.

is pointless since hes not even mentioned as the one who seals Ganon at all in Link to the past, only the old men do it and they overpower a trueforce wielding Ganon to do it

Their slow moving bolts, simple fact. if you dont want to use that piece of gameplay then go find a cutscene instead. Its your fault for posting it.

Ganons not as powerful as Raziel in your vid, his attacks consist of little bolts. Thats what your gameplay vid shows, not a canon cutscene.

Also, stop using gameplay mechanics from 1986 and

durlaugh Claiming Zelda games aren't canon to Zelda!

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
aLttP is /after/ the imprisoning war. Reading comprehension ftw.

He was knocked down, and then Link ran to get the MS and then fight him again.

Play aLttP, you'll find you're quite wrong. The "knights" (Link) had the master sword.

Gameplay mechanic from 1986.

Ganon is much more dangerous than Raziel, period. Ganon is in my vid. The Ganon in my vid is Ganon. Ganon was invisible. Link > Invisible character > Raziel.

Also, stop using gameplay mechanics from 1986 and

durlaugh Claiming Zelda games aren't canon to Zelda!

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Imprisoning_War

Despite some contradictions, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time seemingly covers the Imprisoning War and the events in the run up to its outbreak, namely the Great Cataclysm.

years after the Hyrulean Civil War, Ganon learned of the mythical Triforce and began recruiting an army to seize control of Hyrule and steal the sacred relic. Learning of this, the King of Hyrule called upon the Knights of Hyrule and Seven Wise Men to protect the Sacred Realm. To do this, the wise men began searching for a hero to wield the Master Sword and ultimately protect the land of Hyrule. While they were doing this, however, Ganon attacked. The Knights of Hyrule fought him off vigorously, and the Seven Wise Men arrived just in time to finish him off; sealing him in the Dark World,

Turns out Link had no part in it at all, not until aLttp which is kinda true in what you said but it still covers the imprisoning war.

The Seven Maidens of A Link to the Past are supposedly the descendants of the Seven Sages of Ocarina of Time, and yet while the Seven Sages are of differing races, the Maidens all appear to be human. This is furthered by the fact that the Seven Wise Men are all depicted as human as well. This all seems to be a form of retcon however, and the A Link to the Past backstory has come to be considered non-canonical by many.

Its no wonder its considered non canon because it has a lot of errors, but as I said. Your making a red herring and your making a fool of yourself in the process because all in all, Ganon was still screwed over by old men despite having the trueforce.

The whole vid is a gameplay vid, so its not actual evidence, if you dont want me to use the vids then dont post sad little gameplay vids please.

Its no wonder its considered non canon because it has a lot of errors, but as I said. Your making a red herring and your making a fool of yourself in the process because all in all, Ganon was still screwed over by old men despite having the trueforce.

Hey, you know what, you just destroyed your own argument, GJ.

The aLttP back story is what people consider non-canon.. That's the part you keep trying to milk and create misinformation about anyway. GJ.

The whole vid is a gameplay vid, so its not actual evidence, if you dont want me to use the vids then dont post sad little gameplay vids please.

Your rebuttal?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Hey, you know what, you just destroyed your own argument, GJ.

The aLttP [b]back story is what people consider non-canon.. That's the part you keep trying to milk and create misinformation about anyway. GJ.

Ganon was invisible. Ganon > Raziel. Link won.

Your rebuttal? [/B]

Not really, my argument has many levels but you would have no understand of what a real argument is.

Then Ganon never creates the Darkworld and he has no trueforce feats. The trueforce also has no feats.

Nah, sorry. Your argument does not ring true, now your just making your daft little statements without argueing like you usually do. Your "argument" if it could ever be called one is a trash heap based on fanon and gameplay mechanics 😆

To translate: You have no argument. I win again. That's what, the eighth time today?

The eighth time today youve actually dodged showing evidence, relied on fanon, shown denile and then bombed out when your argument fell to the ground around you lol.

Your arguments, which have all fallen apart or destroyed themselves hinge on:

Raziel being superhuman, you have no proof of this by your own logic, and yet you make exceptions. Even if we allow you to except your own logic, Raziel is inferior to Link in every category.

Raziel's invisiblity. Link has beaten superior enemies when they were invisible. Raziel's invisibility has a 2 second cast time.

Raziel somehow avoiding or dodging the spin attack which occurs faster than he can react to, outranges him, and has a large area of effect.

Raziel's screwed.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Your arguments, which have all fallen apart or destroyed themselves hinge on:

Raziel being superhuman, you have no proof of this by your own logic, and yet you make exceptions. Even if we allow you to except your own logic, Raziel is inferior to Link in every category.

Raziel's invisiblity. Link has beaten superior enemies when they were invisible. Raziel's invisibility has a 2 second cast time.

Raziel somehow avoiding or dodging the spin attack which occurs faster than he can react to, outranges him, and has a large area of effect.

Raziel's screwed.

Thats a lie, once again this whole list of rubbish is statements based solely on your opinion. Go find some vids or at least some good info to back up your fanon and transform it to canon.

Also another fun fact:

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time is confirmed by Miyamoto to be the first game canonically in the series, making that game's incarnation the first Link and arguably the most famous one of all due to his status as the legendary Hero of Time.

1 second cast time, and they were not superior, not by a long shot, they were actually quite pathetic.