Evenstar's bracelet

ergh...no...i think you got him man. good job *thumbs up*

Thank you Dexx. I think I was getting a little tired of the bickering when I posted all that.

If you want I can make a movie about the world Immortality and call the movie Immortality.

Gee, Rex, you could at least try and support your arguments...

it is true that they age, but not like us. isnt it kind of like after eons they tire of the world and "die" then? so i guess for the most part they are immortal, but after living here so long they kind of grow wary of the world. i think it is almost kind of how they can die from grief, i guess they can also die from boredom. and rex very nice job on supporting your argument, but your example of gilgalad kind of doesnt work for me just because elendil would then be considered immortal as well, but very nice job.

i tried to find the passage in the silmarillion today, but gave up after 5 minutes. I get lost throught all of those pages.

Gil-Galad was an Elf that was slain, Turin. Immortality means that you cannot die under any circumstance. You get the picture.

Yep, that would be pretty tiring, wouldn't it Dexx?

oh really because to me it looks like it says that THEY ARE IMMORTAL!!
maybe you need to look a little closer next time

*smacks forehead* *bangs head on wall*

THEY ARE NOT IMMORTAL!!! THEY CAN DIE!!!

When Arwen says she will choose mortal life, it means that she will not live a million years like the rest of her kind.

Can't you read the definitions! Immortality means that an immortal person CANNOT DIE. Elves CAN DIE. Otherwise they would be UNSTOPPABLE, which they ARE NOT.

Can someone help me pound this into her head?

thats one thing I dont understand, if the books says they are immortal then that means they are immortal
but I was just saying they are immortal
I know they can die
I already posted the ways they can die, the thing is Galadriel was born in like the second age so that would mean she would at least have to be a million years old

Actually, she was born in the Years of the Trees, before the First Age. That would make her about 10,000 years old. That falls 990,000 years short of the dying age of Elves.

Years of the Trees -- about 14,325 years
First Age -- about 583 years
Second Age -- 3441 years
Third Age -- 3021 years
Fourth Age -- last recorded date 172 years

All adds up to 21,542 years. Elves couldn't have reached the age of 1 million anyway.

Where does the book say that they are immortal? Give me the passages and prove it.

oh, you are something, undomiel.
I've just remembered i have the silmarillion on my pc. I'll try and find that pasage with some key words.....i hope you won't continue with this foolishness then.

AHA!..found it

so it's bla bla bla...followed by (and this is a quote from the book) :..."neither does age subdue their strength, unless one grow weary of ten thousand centuries; and dying they are gathered to the halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence they may in time return. "

ten thousand centuries..that's like 1 000 000. A million years...yeah...enough to grown weary on

thats when they go to the grey havens

Not when they are dead and in the Halls of Mandos, Undomiel... they are way beyond the Grey Havens by then.

The guys are right; Tolkien did put a theoretical age limit of 10000 centuries on Elves.

rex, hey i was just saying that one of your examples of the use of the word immortality is how gilgalad's legend will be remembered forever making his memory immortal, well by that example a lot of the human characters would be immortal as well. i think it was your immortal meaning #2. thats all i was saying.

Oh, okay Turin, I get what your saying. We're all pretty much immortal in that sense. I was emphasising the "cannot die" part, so I was confused when you first said that.

its all good rex, so i guess they dont really grow old do they. they kind of just get bored and leave. sound right?

hm...

Hm?

umdomial.. not meaning to burst you're bubble, but elves can die of old age.. as the dewd said up there.. its takes like eons for them to die due to age.. not all elves choose to go to the grey havens.. as you've probably read in other threads abouts elves of eg legolas's breed who feel there is no need to travel to the west... those elves either die of grief or very very very very very OLD age.. they're immortal in a sense that no mortal has ever lived to see an elf die