Darkseid and Dr Doom vs Thanos and Lex Luthor

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Thanos clone took him out of the picture through devious means.

Thor had all kinds of goodies so to say he wasn't powered up is ignorant. Classic Thor can't even beat a Thanos clone on his own well this one anyways.

I am just saying if it were as easy as time traveling then Thanos wouldn't be the monster threat he is.

Neither can Doom but Thanos can time travel with his tech.

Yes, and Thanos has done better so what's your point?

At the end of the arc Seid was dead. That's not called great planning when someone you are facing up against easily kills you.

Elaborate sure, but like always he fails and goes down hard in the end against the heroes despite the alliances and all that. I determine planning and effectiveness based on success.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Thanos clone took him out of the picture through devious means by waiting until he was weakened from the Dark Gods assault and having his drink roofie'd. See? Devious.

Thanos clone had all kinds of goodies so to say he wasn't powered up is ignorant. Thanos clone can't even beat a Thor on his own well this one anyways.

I am just saying if it were as easy as time traveling then Thanos wouldn't be the monster threat he is except for when he's been utterly helpless against time manipulation before.

Neither can Thanos but Doom can time travel with his tech.

Yes, and by other people's standards, Darkseid has done better so what's your point?

At the end of the arc Thanos was dead before he could fix his own mess. That's not called great planning when you purportedly change your career and end up screwing everything up and getting killed before fixing things.

Elaborate sure, but like always he fails and goes down hard in the end against the heroes despite the alliances and all that. I determine planning and effectiveness based on success. But somehow, I still favor Thanos

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And elaborated:

Thanos clone also had multiple chances to kill Thor throughout the story.

Are you saying Thanos can easily be beaten by this tactic?

Are you saying Thanos can't time travel here?

When has Darkseid done way better?

Thanos was killed yes but due to Drax's cheapshot and his newest incarnation's anti Thanos powers. Thanos was correct that releasing Galactus would turn the tide so kudos to Thanos once again.

Thanos has been successful and has lost due to a subconscious flaw he seemed to overcome in marvel's the end. A hero can step up and beat darkseid it happens all the time but a hero can only beat Thanos if he subconsciously allows it and that seems to have gone to the wasteside.

The circumstances surrounding Drax killing Thanos were unique only to Drax.

^ More irony:

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Thanos clone was an experiment of Thanos' and it failed. Which is exactly the point. Failed. F. A. I. L. E. D.

Thanos clone also had multiple chances to kill Thor throughout the story while being helped by Mangog and amped.

Are you saying Thanos can easily be beaten by this tactic? I know he can, because he's been utterly helpless against time manipulation before but I just want to make sure again.

Are you saying Thanos can't time travel here? Because showing me my own irony wasn't clear.

When has Darkseid done way better? Because by my own standards, he hasn't and by other people's he has. So since I only care for my own standards, I don't know.

Thanos was killed yes but due to Drax's cheapshot and his newest incarnation's anti Thanos powers for which Thanos was utterly helpless against despite assuring his life through THOTU. Thanos was correct that releasing Galactus would turn the tide so kudos to Thanos once again for causing the mess in the first place and failing to clean it up.

Thanos has been successful and has lost due to a subconscious flaw he seemed to overcome in marvel's the end. A hero can step up and beat darkseid it happens all the time but a hero can only beat Thanos if he subconsciously allows it and that seems to have gone to the wasteside except for when Warlock killed Thanos the first time and except for Annihilation and except for Squirrel Girl and other furry creatures.

The circumstances surrounding Drax killing Thanos were unique only to Drax. After all, it's not like a unique element was put inside a bullet to kill Darkseid. Pfft.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ More irony:

Do you understand what an experiment is?

So I guess only team 1 can use time travel because doom is on that team and you really want him to win.

So I guess you concede to rambling about Darkseid and can't even give examples. Nicely done and so quickly for you to boot.

Thanos had his back turned and was trying to do something when he was cheapshotted and was unaware of Drax' new powers. He wasn't omnipotent at the time and seemed content with death so it's still a win for Thanos considering his history.

It was cleaned up as Galactus was freed. Thanos was right yet again.

Warlock's ghost killed thanos and considering all the allies warlock had at the time it's no wonder he was defeated that one time by a ghost of someone he already killed once.

Sg isn't canon to the real Thanos.

Darkseid didn't have his back turned and was mortally wounded by a human being right in front of him. Thanos was murdered by a cheapshot which makes it entirely different.

I honestly don't see Luthor bringing much to the table here. I think Thanos by himself will hold his own and get some wins, but in the end it won't be enough. Team 1 6/10.. mostly because Doom is Lex clear superior in my mind.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So gaining allies is a problem? I guess then this discards Darkseid since he usually has the aid of an entire planet and has sought out Metron to meet his own ends countless times. Doom also recently used Loki's help and was nearly beaten to death by Thor. How impressive for Doom.

Do you understand what an experiment is?

So I guess only team 1 can use time travel because doom is on that team and you really want him to win.

So I guess you concede to rambling about Darkseid and can't even give examples. Nicely done and so quickly for you to boot.

Do you understand what a failed experiment is?

So I guess you remembered when Thanos was utterly helpless against time manipulation. And I hope you are remembering when Thanos admitted apprehensions over time travelling himself.

So I guess you concede to being hypocritical about Thanos and can't even get over it. Nicely done and without any quaneuver this time.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos had his back turned and was trying to do something when he was cheapshotted and was unaware of Drax' new powers. He wasn't omnipotent at the time and seemed content with death so it's still a win for Thanos considering his history.

It was cleaned up as Galactus was freed. Thanos was right yet again.

Warlock's ghost killed thanos and considering all the allies warlock had at the time it's no wonder he was defeated that one time by a ghost of someone he already killed once.

Sg isn't canon to the real Thanos.

Darkseid didn't have his back turned and was mortally wounded by a human being right in front of him. Thanos was murdered by a cheapshot which makes it entirely different.

Thanos was also wrong about his own life-assuring wishes.

Be happy in your delusion. Squirrel Girl is canon as are Thanos' other defeats that had nothing to do with subconsciously being unworthy of ultimate power.

I just referenced the irony over your reliance on unique elements. I could care less about your further petulance and self-serving rationalizations surrounding Thanos' death.

"Thanos' other defeats that had nothing to do with subconsciously being unworthy of ultimate power."

To this quote only... Your saying this was never stated on panel?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor had all kinds of goodies so to say he wasn't powered up is ignorant.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
"Thanos' other defeats that had nothing to do with subconsciously being unworthy of ultimate power."

To this quote only... Your saying this was never stated on panel?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Criticizing those who are assisted and amped (in this case Odin-armored Thor) while aggarandizing Thanos clones who are assisted and amped is irony, if not utter hypocrisy.

Do you understand what a failed experiment is?

So I guess you remembered when Thanos was utterly helpless against time manipulation. And I hope you are remembering when Thanos admitted apprehensions over time travelling himself.

So I guess you concede to being hypocritical about Thanos and can't even get over it. Nicely done and without any quaneuver this time. Or the whole thing was an utter failure since Thanos decided to change his nihilistic ways and stop obsessing over destroying the universe and then ended up assisting in bringing the universe to the brink of destruction anyway. Oh, and failing to use THOTU to assure his life despite supposedly doing just that. Pure win.

Thanos was also wrong about his own life-assuring wishes.

Be happy in your delusion. Squirrel Girl is canon as are Thanos' other defeats that had nothing to do with subconsciously being unworthy of ultimate power.

I just referenced the irony over your reliance on unique elements. I could care less about your further petulance and self-serving rationalizations surrounding Thanos' death.

Yes, but it was just an experiment.

You still keep dodging. Why is Doom the only one who can time travel here?

I am asking for examples you cannot provide. This in turn means you conceded.

A change in character isn't failure it's a change in character.

The universe survived as Thanos knew it would when Galactus was freed.

The thotu didn't make him immortal so it seems you are just upset over Doom's recent failures and are failing to attack Thanos a bigger player than someone like Doom( a guy who gets his ass handed to him by Thor).

Sg isn't canon and it occurred off panel anyways.

I get it you don't care about the facts I don't think you ever have. Context is a word you come in clash with all the time it would appear.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
And the Thanos clone wasn't powered up ?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No, I'm referencing his other defeats that had nothing to with his subconcious unworthiness of ultimate power.

^ I could care less about your farcical excursions into lambasting Darkseid's failures while excusing Thanos' failures. You even go so far as mocking Thanosi's opponents for amps/assists in battles where the Thanosi himself has assists/amps. Complete hypocrisy.

Of course, this is all in addition to conveniently forgetting certain facts about Thanos' own vulnerabilities, i.e., helplessness against time manipulation and Thanos' own explanations as to why he doesn't time travel into the past. I could argue that you completely shut them out of your mind, but that doesn't stop me from holding them against your arguments.

Then there are your laughable rationalizations over Thanos' own defeats. Screaming Squirrel Girl isn't canon doesn't make it non-canon. Ignoring Warlock's and Drax's victories over him doesn't make them disappear. Hiding behind the whole "subconscious unworthiness over ultimate power" excuse in the face of the aforementioned defeats is wholly wrong. And of course, you can't get over how Thanos literally failed to succeed at his own attempted change in character. He wanted to change his nihilistic ways and ended up aiding a creature ironically named Annihilus who nearly brought the universe to destruction and couldn't even clean up his own mess. And somehow, Thanos came out on top in these defeats/failures? Absurd.

Irony is a word you fail to comprehend, despite your ringing success in demonstrating it with each of your inane self-serving arguments. Bravo.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I could care less about your farcical excursions into lambasting Darkseid's failures while excusing Thanos' failures. You even go so far as mocking Thanosi's opponents for amps/assists in battles where the Thanosi himself has assists/amps. Complete hypocrisy.

Of course, this is all in addition to conveniently forgetting certain facts about Thanos' own vulnerabilities, i.e., helplessness against time manipulation and Thanos' own explanations as to why he doesn't time travel into the past. I could argue that you completely shut them out of your mind, but that doesn't stop me from holding them against your arguments.

Then there are your laughable rationalizations over Thanos' own defeats. Screaming Squirrel Girl isn't canon doesn't make it non-canon. Ignoring Warlock's and Drax's victories over him doesn't make them disappear. Hiding behind the whole "subconscious unworthiness over ultimate power" excuse in the face of the aforementioned defeats is wholly wrong. And of course, you can't get over how Thanos literally failed to succeed at his own attempted change in character. He wanted to change his nihilistic ways and ended up aiding a creature ironically named Annihilus who nearly brought the universe to destruction and couldn't even clean up his own mess. And somehow, Thanos came out on top in these defeats/failures? Absurd.

Irony is a word you fail to comprehend, despite your ringing success in demonstrating it with each of your inane self-serving arguments. Bravo.

A few things... Obviously I haven't seen every scan on Thanos but can you please post the scans that reference Thanos being helpless against time manipulation and not being able to time travel. Even though we've seen him take SS time traveling so I'm not sure how this fits in with that. Furthermore, this weakness to time manipulation that you speak of... If this is true then why hasn't Cronos dealt with Thanos long long ago. Afterall he's the best Eternal time manipulator and yet he has been able to do nothing to Thanos in this regard. How is this possible?

As far as the defeats you referenced.. I don't think anybody is saying they didn't happen but some context is also important to take into account. The Drax situation really shouldn't need any explanation. As far as warlock goes.. again this was the weakest version of Thanos and has never been replicated again. He was also taken by surprise from warlock coming out of and using the Soul Gem. Also taking into account that Thanos One-shotted warlock and killed him with ease prior to him being taken by surprise. I hope nobody is saying they didn't happen but some context also sheds some light on the defeats.

^ Thanos was helpless against Rune who stopped time and stole his Reality Gem. Thanos can time travel, but he chooses not to time travel to the past as he explains in Marvel: The End. Kronos probably doesn't use time manipulation on Thanos because he chooses not to, not because Thanos prevents him from doing so. Or maybe he doesn't use it simply because he has almost no feats and is hardly ever seen or mentioned in comics.

Context notwithstanding, neither of those defeats, nor his defeat at the hands of Squirrel Girl, are excused by his subconscious unworthiness of ultimate power. Which was an assertion advanced and rebutted.

^^^^^^ In Re: Last paragraph. I agree, I didn't know that notion was being used to explain his defeats.

In Re: Kronos.. It could be because Thanos does prevent him from doing so. It could be that just chooses not to or his hardly seen in comics. All are possible. However, neither are more plausible than Thanos preventing him from doing so. As I could logically point out that Kronos.. despises Thanos and has always wanted him dead for all the havoc he's caused. Therefore, it would make little logical sense he would do nothing, or go through the trouble of manipulating Drax Dna, if it a simple task for him to do via Time manipulation. We simply don't know why he hasn't, and none are more reasonable explanations than the other.

^ Kronos has been seen in like... all of five comics outside of Infinity Gauntlet. Who knows why he does what he does. But nothing has been shown to suggest that Thanos himself is immune to time manipulation, except in the instance where, in fact, he was utterly susceptible to it.

The very simple explanation behind why he chose to empower an agent is that same old tired comic book rule, you can't change the past and any attempts to do so just creates a divergent reality (except when it doesn't). And this is far more reasonable than assuming Thanos prevents Kronos from messing with time.

Either way, a lack of information regarding Kronos can't be used to conclude anything regarding Thanos, and is thus irrelevant until an explanation is provided.

^ The lack of information regarding Kronos is exactly relevant for pointing out that there is no support that Thanos prevents Kronos from manipulating the timestream to kill Thanos himself.

Which leads you back to the fact that Thanos is susceptible to time manipulation and the usual comic book rule is in effect (except when it's not), i.e. "changes in the past just make a divergent reality and don't change the present."

or maybe the writers didn't want to apply the "why do the flash's fights last more than a panel?" type thing in to their stories cause it just compromises any attempt at a plot.

and kronos' attempt at beating thanos was no worse than temporal bfr, unless he was actually removing the real thanos from the timestream so that no diversions occured, there's no point to it.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Either way, a lack of information regarding Kronos can't be used to conclude anything regarding Thanos, and is thus irrelevant until an explanation is provided.

Agreed. There is ZERO support for any stance either way. It's all speculation.

Originally posted by quanchi112
And being killed in rock of ages despite his success and being beaten in final crisis despite his success.