Darkseid and Dr Doom vs Thanos and Lex Luthor

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Agreed. There is ZERO support for any stance either way. It's all speculation.

Example: Living Tribunal tasked Silver Surfer with retrieving the Infinty Gems from Rune. There is no evidence either way that Rune prevented LT from retrieving the Gems himself. But just because there is no evidence either way doesn't make that explanation just as plausible as LT simply choosing not to.

Or to be facetious: there isn't any support either way that a pink bunny threatened Kronos with death if he used time manipulation. Doesn't make that explanation more plausible than the two already proferred, i.e., Thanos prevents it, Kronos chooses not to.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Thanos' own vulnerabilities,

Hiding behind the whole "subconscious unworthiness over ultimate power" excuse in the face of the aforementioned defeats is wholly wrong.

^ Yes. And that has everything to do with every time he's lost ultimate power and little, or nothing, to do with his other defeats that don't involve ultimate power.

^^ I was only pointing out that detail concerning your quote regarding said detail.

But yea, that aside (in terms of losing "ultimate power"😉
you're right, he's lost before,
like nearly everyone else has, .. including Doom. 😛

Doom has never lost, he just chooses not to win.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ I was only pointing out that detail concerning your quote egarding said detail.

But yea, that aside (in terms of losing "ultimate power"😉 you're right, he's lost before, like nearly everyone else has, .. including Doom.

he;s abstract now so...he died and then gained power. 😖hifty:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

I still don't think you understand the context of my statement. Thanos losing ultimate power is a result of his subconcious unworthiness to hold ultimate power. That has little, or nothing, to do with Thanos being killed by Warlock or killed by Drax respectively since neither of those defeats involved Thanos gaining ultimate power.

Originally posted by Mr Master

^^ I was only pointing out that detail concerning your quote regarding said detail.

But yea, that aside (in terms of losing "ultimate power"😉
you're right, he's lost before,
like nearly everyone else has, .. including Doom. 🙂

^ ...

You win this round, Inspector Gadget. uhuh

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Zero support either way doesn't result in your explanation that "Thanos prevents Kronos from manipulating time" becoming just as plausible as "Kronos simply chooses not to."

[b]Example: Living Tribunal tasked Silver Surfer with retrieving the Infinty Gems from Rune. There is no evidence either way that Rune prevented LT from retrieving the Gems himself. But just because there is no evidence either way doesn't make that explanation just as plausible as LT simply choosing not to.

Or to be facetious: there isn't any support either way that a pink bunny threatened Kronos with death if he used time manipulation. Doesn't make that explanation more plausible than the two already proferred, i.e., Thanos prevents it, Kronos chooses not to. [/B]

The facts are these... You are speculating that Kronos is just choosing not to time manipulate Thanos. You have zero proof that is the case, and thus what I said is spot on.

Furthermore, just because Thanos showed a vulnerability to time manipulation ONCE in his history doesn't make that a known and always exploitable weakness for him. This isn't Kryponite for superman where there is a long laundry list of times this has been shown to be a known weakness. One time something affecting Thanos, doesn't come near the volume of evidence like in the above example I gave. So to say Thanos has a weakness to time manipulation when its only occured once, which could very well be past off as normal comic book plot, not a verifiable known weakness everytime.

^ What I said is spot on too. Your explanation holds less credence than Kronos simply choosing not to but holds more credence than the pink bunny that threatened Kronos if he did. Still zero evidence on all accounts.

Conflating Thanos' helplessness against time manipulation = it being his kryptonite is something that you advanced intentionally as a straw-man or unintentionally as lack of comprehension.

Conflating Kronos' non-use of time manipulation against him = Thanos being immune from it is also something you advanced despite the illustrative pink bunny example and comics rule #106, "Changing the past doesn't change the present (except when it does)."

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ What I said is spot on too. Your explanation holds less credence than Kronos simply choosing not to but holds more credence than the pink bunny that threatened Kronos if he did. Still zero evidence on all accounts.

Conflating Thanos' helplessness against time manipulation = it being his kryptonite is something that you advanced intentionally as a straw-man or unintentionally as lack of comprehension.

Conflating Kronos' non-use of time manipulation against him = Thanos being immune from it is also something you advanced despite the illustrative pink bunny example and comics rule #106, "Changing the past doesn't change the present (except when it does)."

False on two accounts..

You said it was a known weakness of Thanos. YOu specifically said he's vulnerable to time manipulation. One instance where that occured is hardly evidence of known verifiable and everytime weakness. If something happens on multiple occasions we can say it's a known weakness. Just because SS is KO'd by a rock thrown by Kallnark doesn't mean he's vulnerable to rocks hitting his dome. It happened once and thus that is near enough proof to substantiate anything.

Furthermore, show me ONE PLACE where Thanos was the one stopping the manipulation of Kronos. I laid out another possible explanation and nothing more. I never once said.. In my opinion...never once stated something as a fact. I only gave a possible explanation as did you.

^ I didn't even once say Thanos had a weakness to time manipulation. Read the thread. Him being susceptible to it on-panel =/= it being his kryptonite. Don't straw-man me.

You laid out a possible explanation that holds less water than Kronos choosing not to do it. Let's set aside Thanos being helpless against time manipulation on-panel for a minute. You still haven't understood that the lack of positive evidence for all possibilities doesn't make all possibilities equally plausible.

Feel free to meander around that simple, immutable truth. Next time you say it's possible that Thanos prevents Kronos from using time manipulation to kill him, I'll embrace your standards and respond that it's equally possible that Thanos blows Kronos' dong to temporarily appease Kronos each time he threatens to use it on him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I could care less about your farcical excursions into lambasting Darkseid's failures while excusing Thanos' failures. You even go so far as mocking Thanosi's opponents for amps/assists in battles where the Thanosi himself has assists/amps. Complete hypocrisy.

Of course, this is all in addition to conveniently forgetting certain facts about Thanos' own vulnerabilities, i.e., helplessness against time manipulation and Thanos' own explanations as to why he doesn't time travel into the past. I could argue that you completely shut them out of your mind, but that doesn't stop me from holding them against your arguments.

Then there are your laughable rationalizations over Thanos' own defeats. Screaming Squirrel Girl isn't canon doesn't make it non-canon. Ignoring Warlock's and Drax's victories over him doesn't make them disappear. Hiding behind the whole "subconscious unworthiness over ultimate power" excuse in the face of the aforementioned defeats is wholly wrong. And of course, you can't get over how Thanos literally failed to succeed at his own attempted change in character. He wanted to change his nihilistic ways and ended up aiding a creature ironically named Annihilus who nearly brought the universe to destruction and couldn't even clean up his own mess. And somehow, Thanos came out on top in these defeats/failures? Absurd.

Irony is a word you fail to comprehend, despite your ringing success in demonstrating it with each of your inane self-serving arguments. Bravo.

The Thanosi already could have beaten Thor but due to the plot he didn't. That's just a clone who was more successful when taking on asgard with Odin than Doom was without Thor at the time. Thor showed up and ruined Doom's plan and beat him silly and relies on Loki to save him. Not an impressive prep showing at all.

Again, if it's a tactic Doom can implement so can Thanos. That's my point and always has been.

The Sg incident isn't canon so there's no need for me to scream it. Thanos already killed warlock once so who's ignoring it. It was a much weaker Thanos who already killed him once. Drax cheapshotted him with new powers so again what am I ignoring?

It bothers you I am winning this debate doesn't it?

Thanos set about to fix it and was correct about Galactus fixing it. He ended up with Death anyways so again he came out on top even in death.

Thanos solos.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Most likely because Darkseid's story is that of the Tyrant who overextends his reach and ultimately falls, its part of his character to eventually die in final combat with his son so in the end no matter how many victories he might achieve his end is predetermined. Besides its not like Thanos has that good a record of ultimate success, indeed most of his famous stories involve him gaining and losing Ultimate Power. Going by your "he lost in the end therefore he sucks regardless of how effective he was in the run-up to the end" logic Thanos is the biggest loser in comics.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I didn't even once say Thanos had a weakness to time manipulation. Read the thread. Him being susceptible to it on-panel =/= it being his kryptonite. Don't straw-man me.

You laid out a possible explanation that holds less water than Kronos choosing not to do it. Let's set aside Thanos being helpless against time manipulation on-panel for a minute. You still haven't understood that the lack of positive evidence for all possibilities doesn't make all possibilities equally plausible.

Feel free to meander around that simple, immutable truth. Next time you say it's possible that Thanos prevents Kronos from using time manipulation to kill him, I'll embrace your standards and respond that it's equally possible that Thanos blows Kronos' dong to temporarily appease Kronos each time he threatens to use it on him.

So if you're helpless against something you wouldn't consider that a weakness towards said thing?

Originally posted by quanchi112

Except Orion didn't kill him. You can excuse his defeats which come off as humiliating but it's all you do when it comes to darkseid.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Don't stand in a river and call me wet Quan. You've spent the last few pages making excuses for Thanos's defeats. And yes Orion did defeat him but even then Darkseid snatched victory by assassinating him with a Time Bullet. In the end Darkseid's evil was always going to lose to Superman as shown by Superman canceling him out with a countervibration.
You are so obsessed with Thanos being above Darkseid that you lowball DS mercilessly and treat him like some Mid-Tier Schmuck by ignoring his high showings while only focusing on his scant few defeats, a lot of which are examples of serious PIS and/or CIS. You ignore context in regards to Thanos's victories while always attempting to show context (even when none exists) to Thanos's losses.

In a crossover you don't have to be beaten by Superman. Darkseid has become his whipping boy. What showings I am ignoring?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I haven't excuses his defeats I have simply stated the reasoning and the context behind them which is entirely different than Darkseid's defeats.

In a crossover you don't have to be beaten by Superman. Darkseid has become his whipping boy. What showings I am ignoring?

He has not become his whipping boy by any stretch of the imagination, most of their encounters have either ended in stalemates (I know, I know, you have trouble understanding that word) or victories for DS. Superman has beaten him all of two times out of perhaps ten or twelve in-continuity encounters and in both cases they were horribly written.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Read his respect thread and you'll understand that Darkseid isn't and should never lose to a High Herald character barring a serious plot device.

He has not become his whipping boy by any stretch of the imagination, most of their encounters have either ended in stalemates (I know, I know, you have trouble understanding that word) or victories for DS. Superman has beaten him all of two times out of perhaps ten or twelve in-continuity encounters and in both cases they were horribly written.

So you concede Superman is on Darkseid's level and they are peers unlike Thanos. Good.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have many of his comics so please point out the ones I am forgetting.

So you concede Superman is on Darkseid's level and they are peers unlike Thanos. Good.