Bowser vs Cloud

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
If you think so, do you have another explanation why the entire planet is still OK even though Supernova animation showed the entire solar system destroyed?

Dissidia is another explanation, it's shows the attack w/o the animation that people use to call his attack an illusion. It can still hurt his enemies, and if you get his bravery up high enough to do some heavy damage, it can kill his enemies in one shot.

Come on people, your asking for logic to come out of a science fiction video game. The Mario games stretch real world physics a lot more than the Final Fantasy series does, and can easily be written off as toon force.

I'm still curious how you guys think Cloud will ever hurt Bowser. 😐

Also, Cloud will get hit eventually, and he can be hurt by bullets. Your supernova is invalid!

Same as Bowser dieing in lava in one game but not another.

SMG/SM64 Bowser was never hurt by lava.

A few things:

1. How does Sephiroth having a Supernova attack mean Cloud has the force of a real supernova? I believe this is the point that The Scenario touched on.

2. From past arguments about that attack, it's an illusion. Does it even actually do physical damage or does it just trick Cloud into thinking he took damage?

3. The Supernova is not all Bowser took. It's merely the only part I mentioned. He also took the black hole, and whatever it was that all the Luma's diving into the black hole created. That's pretty epic stuff.

4. Perhaps Sephiroth's Supernova is...COOLFORCE?! Damn it. Scenario, that is just so much friggin' fun to say.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'm still curious how you guys think Cloud will ever hurt Bowser. 😐

Also, Cloud will get hit eventually, and he can be hurt by [b]bullets. Your supernova is invalid! [/B]

Easy enough counter... as I said earlier in the post, Mario is able to hurt, and defeat Bowser simply by avoiding his attacks and punching him. How is it that a being that you guys claim is so powerful is able to get whipped on by Mario every time they fight each other, but yet he can survive a supernova? Mario definitely doesn't have the force of a supernova, yet that doesn't stop him from coming out victorious. Cloud has a lot more powerful attacks than Mario does, so this shouldn't be a problem for him either. I find your supernova invalid too 😛

Easy enough counter... as I said earlier in the post, Mario is able to hurt, and defeat Bowser simply by avoiding his attacks and punching him. How is it that a being that you guys claim is so powerful is able to get whipped on by Mario every time they fight each other, but yet he can survive a supernova? Mario definitely doesn't have the force of a supernova, yet that doesn't stop him from coming out victorious. Cloud has a lot more powerful attacks than Mario does, so this shouldn't be a problem for him either. I find your supernova invalid too

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
A few things:

1. How does Sephiroth having a Supernova attack mean Cloud has the force of a real supernova? I believe this is the point that The Scenario touched on.

2. From past arguments about that attack, it's an illusion. Does it even actually do physical damage or does it just trick Cloud into thinking he took damage?

3. The Supernova is not all Bowser took. It's merely the only part I mentioned. He also took the black hole, and whatever it was that all the Luma's diving into the black hole created. That's pretty epic stuff.

4. Perhaps Sephiroth's Supernova is...COOLFORCE?! Damn it. Scenario, that is just so much friggin' fun to say.

1.)I noticed that he meant the force of a supernova being his attacks after I posted. I never claimed that he did though, I said that he survived an attack from Sephiroth that had the force of a supernova.

2.) It does cause them to take damage, considering that after the cut scene, which is the only claim that helps you claim it as an illusion, they get hurt by it. Damage isn't part of the illusion. It takes place after it. Also, Supernova has no claim to be an illusion in Dissidia. It is an actual attack that Sephiroth uses to kill his enemies. I don't see how after his knocks them into the supernova and defeats them is an illusion at all. After it happens, they were still defeated.

3.) Yes, right after the supernova, there was a blackhole that sucked everyone into it, not just Bowser. I doubt that whatever the Lumas created by jumping in the black hole was anything you can use to help Bowser's durability. The only conclusion I can make from the Lumas jumping in, was using their power to save everyone, including Bowser, from certain death. It reversed the black hole and sent everyone, including Bowser, back safely, and created a new galaxy.

4.) Hmmm... perhaps all the the durability feats your giving Bowser from the end of Mario Galaxy is.... TOONFORCE?!! Dammit that was just as fun to say. 😄

If Bowser can tank lava and a supernova, but not Mario, wouldn't it be more logical to say that he just has insanely high heat-resistence rather than defence against bladed-weapons?

If Bowser can tank lava and a supernova, but not Mario, wouldn't it be more logical to say that he just has insanely high heat-resistence rather than defence against bladed-weapons?

Didnt he like the rest get saved? He was right by Mario and Peach at the end.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If Bowser can tank lava and a supernova, but not Mario, wouldn't it be more logical to say that he just has insanely high heat-resistence rather than defence against bladed-weapons?

Thank you, finally some support. These people refuse to think that Bowser can be hurt at all. It's as if they have deluded themselves into thinking that Bowser is some kind of invincible Nintendo god. 😆

Originally posted by BloodRain
Didnt he like the rest get saved? He was right by Mario and Peach at the end.

Yes he did, and yes he was. 😄

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'm curious what makes you think Cloud is more powerful than Mario in any way shape or form? 😐

0_o ....I don't really see why this needs to be explained, but okay, I'll oblige. Cloud carries a huge ass sword with him everywhere he goes like its nothing, and he is still faster than Mario. I'm pretty sure that Mario's punches don't compare to what Cloud's swordplay can do. Cloud also has more abilities than Mario than physical attacks, or his transformations.... magic, summons, etc.
I'm curious to why you question this? Are there any feats Mario has in Galaxy to prove he is stronger?

Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
0_o ....I don't really see why this needs to be explained, but okay, I'll oblige. Cloud carries a huge ass sword with him everywhere he goes like its nothing, and he is still faster than Mario. I'm pretty sure that Mario's punches don't compare to what Cloud's swordplay can do. Cloud also has more abilities than Mario than physical attacks, or his transformations.... magic, summons, etc.
I'm curious to why you question this? Are there any feats Mario has in Galaxy to prove he is stronger?

This is certainly a post I disagree with, if you have ever played Mario RPG, Paper Mario 1&2, Super Paper Mario, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, and Super Mario Galaxy you would know that Mario has a ridiculous amount of power and powers at his disposal and plenty of speed.

Mario could trounce Cloud in every possible way. Carrying a huge ass sword does not make you more powerful.

Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
1.)I noticed that he meant the force of a supernova being his attacks after I posted. I never claimed that he did though, I said that he survived an attack from Sephiroth that had the force of a supernova.

2.) It does cause them to take damage, considering that after the cut scene, which is the only claim that helps you claim it as an illusion, they get hurt by it. Damage isn't part of the illusion. It takes place after it. Also, Supernova has no claim to be an illusion in Dissidia. It is an actual attack that Sephiroth uses to kill his enemies. I don't see how after his knocks them into the supernova and defeats them is an illusion at all. After it happens, they were still defeated.

3.) Yes, right after the supernova, there was a blackhole that sucked everyone into it, not just Bowser. I doubt that whatever the Lumas created by jumping in the black hole was anything you can use to help Bowser's durability. The only conclusion I can make from the Lumas jumping in, was using their power to save everyone, including Bowser, from certain death. It reversed the black hole and sent everyone, including Bowser, back safely, and created a new galaxy.

4.) Hmmm... perhaps all the the durability feats your giving Bowser from the end of Mario Galaxy is.... TOONFORCE?!! Dammit that was just as fun to say. 😄

1. So Cloud can't produce force equal to that of a supernova, and therefore cannot defeat Bowser.

2. An illusion is not real, the fake cannot harm the real.

3. Well whatever it was is within the black hole itself, which right there is absolute insane durability. Sending Bowser back safely doesn't eliminate the durability he gains from said feat.

4. Perhaps, but I believe the point of the Coolforce argument is to prove to everyone else that Toonforce does not matter. I shouldn't be using it on you unless you try to use Toonforce as a reason it isn't canon. I don't remember if you have, but I thought you did.

Originally posted by Cyner
This is certainly a post I disagree with, if you have ever played Mario RPG, Paper Mario 1&2, Super Paper Mario, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, and Super Mario Galaxy you would know that Mario has a ridiculous amount of power and powers at his disposal and plenty of speed.

Mario could trounce Cloud in every possible way. Carrying a huge ass sword does not make you more powerful.

This is also a post I disagree with. I have played all of the Mario games, except for the rpgs. (I only beat one of them) The powers in those games don't really apply to this thread though, the Bowser in it only applies to Mario Galaxy and 64. Seeing as how most of you were using Galaxy, that was the Mario I was comparing Cloud with.
I do know that Mario has ridiculous amounts of power in all of his games combined though.
I grew up playing them, I love Mario games, but I don't see the Mario in Galaxy being able to, as you said, trounce Cloud in every possible way. I agree, carrying a huge sword doesn't make you powerful, but the way that Cloud wields it does. Carrying something that heavy nonchalantly like it's nothing does show that Cloud has muscles, but the way that he uses his sword does show strength, and he has a lot more than physical attacks to use against his enemies.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
1. So Cloud can't produce force equal to that of a supernova, and therefore cannot defeat Bowser.

2. An illusion is not real, the fake cannot harm the real.

3. Well whatever it was is within the black hole itself, which right there is absolute insane durability. Sending Bowser back safely doesn't eliminate the durability he gains from said feat.

4. Perhaps, but I believe the point of the Coolforce argument is to prove to everyone else that Toonforce does not matter. I shouldn't be using it on you unless you try to use Toonforce as a reason it isn't canon. I don't remember if you have, but I thought you did.

1.) Neither can Mario, but that doesn't stop him from whipping on Bowser every time they clash.

2.) then why does it??? Hmmm..... it must be more than just the illusion you keep bringing up.

3.) Again, Peach, Mario, and the others survived it too considering they were sucked in. Are you saying that Peach is just as durable as Bowser? Does that mean that she can take Bowser in a fight, but for some reason, Cloud can't? Bowser clearly was hurt badly during that cut scene, how do we know that the blast and the black hole wouldn't have killed him w/o the stars saving everyone that was there.

lol oh yeah, nothing to do with the debate, but did u notice how in the cut scene when the black hole sucks everyone in. Right before the Lumas jump in to save the day, Peach is screaming for Mario to save her, but he ignores her completely because the Lumas memorized him. lmao.. that was great, I completely lost it. 😆

4.) I'm not sure, don't remember who brought it up first. It just kind of annoys me that people disagree with Sephiroth's attack being real just because of that cutscene. Video Games don't have to make perfect sense. They are just video games, and are meant for entertainment. Real world logic shouldn't have to make sense for it to be real in a game. If the developers say that something is true, despite what fans say, I don't really see how they can be wrong about it.

Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
1.) Neither can Mario, but that doesn't stop him from whipping on Bowser every time they clash.

2.) then why does it??? Hmmm..... it must be more than just the illusion you keep bringing up.

3.) Again, Peach, Mario, and the others survived it too considering they were sucked in. Are you saying that Peach is just as durable as Bowser? Does that mean that she can take Bowser in a fight, but for some reason, Cloud can't? Bowser clearly was hurt badly during that cut scene, how do we know that the blast and the black hole wouldn't have killed him w/o the stars saving everyone that was there.

lol oh yeah, nothing to do with the debate, but did u notice how in the cut scene when the black hole sucks everyone in. Right before the Lumas jump in to save the day, Peach is screaming for Mario to save her, but he ignores her completely because the Lumas memorized him. lmao.. that was great, I completely lost it. 😆

4.) I'm not sure, don't remember who brought it up first. It just kind of annoys me that people disagree with Sephiroth's attack being real just because of that cutscene. Video Games don't have to make perfect sense. They are just video games, and are meant for entertainment. Real world logic shouldn't have to make sense for it to be real in a game. If the developers say that something is true, despite what fans say, I don't really see how they can be wrong about it.

1. Mario has never actually harmed Bowser enough to kill him. In SMG all that he did was kick him off a planet after spinning him around it like a top. Bowser is still alive, easily. But as we see in the scene before his galaxy explodes, he is still capable of walking with stumbled steps. This is indicative of dizziness. There isn't a scratch on him.

2. Placebo effect? I don't know, I'm not an FF fan.

3. Mario and Peach were not sucked in. We even see Mario outside of it when the Luma leaves from underneath his hat and flies into the black hole. We know it wouldn't have killed him because the Supernova happened before the Lumas even intervened. And if a black hole were to kill him, it would be via compressing him to an incredibly small size, right away.

And Mario had to ignore Peach, without the Luma he lost his ability to move in space. He was essentially stuck where he was.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
1. Mario has never actually harmed Bowser enough to kill him. In SMG all that he did was kick him off a planet after spinning him around it like a top. Bowser is still alive, easily. But as we see in the scene before his galaxy explodes, he is still capable of walking with stumbled steps. This is indicative of dizziness. There isn't a scratch on him.

2. Placebo effect? I don't know, I'm not an FF fan.

3. Mario and Peach were not sucked in. We even see Mario outside of it when the Luma leaves from underneath his hat and flies into the black hole. We know it wouldn't have killed him because the Supernova happened before the Lumas even intervened. And if a black hole were to kill him, it would be via compressing him to an incredibly small size, right away.

And Mario had to ignore Peach, without the Luma he lost his ability to move in space. He was essentially stuck where he was.

No, maybe not enough to kill him in Galaxy, but he has in other games. Bowser's power fluctuates a lot from game to game, it's never really been consistant. Yes, Bowser was still alive after he fell in, but stumbled steps is an indicative of pain too. Walking out of it was a pretty good feat, but saying that he didn't get hurt by it at all doesn't make sense. Just because we couldn't see a scratch on him doesn't mean he wasn't hurt from the fight, thats a pretty big assumption.
Knowing that the actual supernova blast wouldn't have killed him is too. After the blast, we don't actually see Bowser until after they all were saved. Mario may not have been sucked in at that exact moment, but it being a black hole, it would have been inevitable w/o the Lumas intervening, reversing the black hole. Also, after they were saved by the stars, and Rosalia tells Mario that when stars die their dust is spread across the galaxy creating new galaxies, etc. She also says that all new life carries the essence of the stars.. even all of you. Everyone of them would have died if it wasn't for the stars intervention, they spared their lives, even Bowser's life.

lmao.... yeah I know that he couldn't have done anything to save her if he wanted to, I just found it funny as hell that he completely ignored her pleas when the Luma flew out. I have a very random and sick sense of humor, i couldn't help myself. It's just the expression on his face when it happened... I thought to myself " oh no, I have to save Peach before we get sucked in.... ooooo shiny" 😱