Surfer should take this. CIS free fights aren't as much about who can do the most, but who can do the most with the greatest ease. Yeah Thor can do most of the same stuff Surfer can, but much of it he can't do as easily. For instance Thor's hammer gives him the ability to fly fast enough to stay in the fight, it gives him sufficient absorption capabilities to absorb energy attacks from Supes and Surfer, it gives him ranged attacks powerful enough to hurt the other combatants, and it gives him forcefields strong enough to withstand his opponents attacks... but Thor's going to be far more limited than Surfer in how many of those options he can exersise at one time. If he's using his hammer to keep up with one of his opponents in flight, he's not going to be able to use it to block/absorb attacks from other directions. If he's raising a forcefield, he's not firing an energy blast.
Surfer's board also gives him a major advantage in a fight like this since he can send it to attack/defend against one opponent while engaging a different opponent or have it lend a hand attacking his current opponent.
Here's what the power of that reactor did:
Here Thor tries and albeit fails trying to contain the energy of the reactor.
To Thor's credit though, it didn't look like the standard absorption.
Originally posted by Ambient
Early 90's, however there's been a lot of changed..Surfer absorb/destroyed something similar, the null wave.. supposedly destroy anything in existence..
Scans or issue number? Never read this myself or maybe I just forgot.
I doubt Norrin could do this though. Even current Surfer was near death's door from the simple strain of directing the Big Crunch. I highly doubt he can absorb anything as powerful as being able to destroy anything in existence.
Fun fact: The gods Thor will be fighting in Matt Fraction's arc are powerful enough to stave off the Big Crunch. I hope Thor kicks ass.
Originally posted by Ambient
good luck.. Try making some sense into that missed..lol
Okay.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer should take this. CIS free fights aren't as much about who can do the most, but who can do the most with the greatest ease. Yeah Thor can do most of the same stuff Surfer can, but much of it he can't do as easily. For instance Thor's hammer gives him the ability to fly fast enough to stay in the fight, it gives him sufficient absorption capabilities to absorb energy attacks from Supes and Surfer, it gives him ranged attacks powerful enough to hurt the other combatants, and it gives him forcefields strong enough to withstand his opponents attacks... but Thor's going to be far more limited than Surfer in how many of those options he can exersise at one time. If he's using his hammer to keep up with one of his opponents in flight, he's not going to be able to use it to block/absorb attacks from other directions. If he's raising a forcefield, he's not firing an energy blast.Surfer's board also gives him a major advantage in a fight like this since he can send it to attack/defend against one opponent while engaging a different opponent or have it lend a hand attacking his current opponent.
Thor's flown while encircled in a vortex before. So yes he can defend himself and fly at the same time.
He can also absorb energy from all directions drawing them into the hammer head, so flying and absorbing attacks is no problem.
It depends on what kind of force field he creates. If he creates a vortex it will only take a moment but in that moment he won't be able to attack unless he uses some lightning.
This is of course not taking into account the fact that Thor can fly at speeds that would allow him to keep up with his opponents without Mjolnir, unleash energy attacks that would definitely hurt his opponents without Mjolnir, create force fields with a simple raise of his hand etc. He doesn't normally do this but C.I.S. is off.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor's flown while encircled in a vortex before. So yes he can defend himself and fly at the same time.He can also absorb energy from all directions drawing them into the hammer head, so flying and absorbing attacks is no problem.
It depends on what kind of force field he creates. If he creates a vortex it will only take a moment but in that moment he won't be able to attack unless he uses some lightning.
This is of course not taking into account the fact that Thor can fly at speeds that would allow him to keep up with his opponents without Mjolnir, unleash energy attacks that would definitely hurt his opponents without Mjolnir, create force fields with a simple raise of his hand etc. He doesn't normally do this but C.I.S. is off.
Since when has his hammer ever been able to absorb an energy blast that's coming from behind him? All his absoption feats I'm aware of have him blocking the blast.
Since when can he fly faster than light without his hammer or raise forcefields powerful enough to hinder the opposition without his hammer? And when has he ever used an energy blast without his hammer while he did anything else? I mean I know he can pull out blasts without his hammer, but given the speed of all his opponents multitasking feats would be nice to support his being able to pull out a hammerless blast while still using his hammer defensively.
^Yes he could do that too. He can enter or exit his vortex's at will. Heck, his even created a vortex that was intangible and invisible to anyone else besides those he allowed but he entered and exited it just fine.
Originally posted by darthgoober
What vortex are you talking about?Since when has his hammer ever been able to absorb an energy blast that's coming from behind him? All his absoption feats I'm aware of have him blocking the blast.
Since when can he fly faster than light without his hammer or raise forcefields powerful enough to hinder the opposition without his hammer? And when has he ever used an energy blast without his hammer while he did anything else? I mean I know he can pull out blasts without his hammer, but given the speed of all his opponents multitasking feats would be nice to support his being able to pull out a hammerless blast while still using his hammer defensively.
Thor can create generic force fields or a vortex to defend himself. Thor has in the past created a vortex to carry himself and other people.
Thor can draw energy from different directions into his hammer head.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/AbsorbThanosEnergy1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/AbsorbThanosEnergy2.jpg
He has flown from Asgard to Earth in moments. And used the wrong route apparently. That's his greatest speed feat with or without the hammer in terms of flight. Asgard is described as being farther than the farthest galaxy and beyond mortal comprehension of space and time yet at the same time being as close as your heart. That's because Asgard exists in a dimension parallel to Earth and you can use the rainbow bridge to get their instantly or take the long route.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FlywithoutMjolnirinSpace.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FlyWithoutMjolnirInSpace1.jpg
He has casually created a force field to contain the blast of nuclear warheads.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/King%20Thor/ContainsNukes1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/King%20Thor/ContainsNukes2.jpg
He can emit energy without Mjolnir.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/King%20Thor/DefeatsDesak5.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/King%20Thor/DefeatsDesak6.jpg
His hurting Desak himself. And that guy literally drinks godly power. That's like hurting Superman with a blast of pure Solar radiation. The power must have been immense.
I can't recall Thor ever doing something akin to absorbing energy with his hammer while blasting a different opponent which is what I'm assuming your looking for. I don't see why you would ever argue though that he cannot as he has shown he can emit energy from his hands or even in an omnidirectional fashion from his body. C.I.S is not in play here so he'd use tactics his never normally used. This is something everyone's been doing for Norrin.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor can create generic force fields or a vortex to defend himself. Thor has in the past created a vortex to carry himself and other people.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor can draw energy from different directions into his hammer head.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/AbsorbThanosEnergy1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/AbsorbThanosEnergy2.jpg
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus.
He has flown from Asgard to Earth in moments. And used the wrong route apparently. That's his greatest speed feat with or without the hammer in terms of flight. Asgard is described as being farther than the farthest galaxy and beyond mortal comprehension of space and time yet at the same time being as close as your heart. That's because Asgard exists in a dimension parallel to Earth and you can use the rainbow bridge to get their instantly or take the long route.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FlywithoutMjolnirinSpace.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FlyWithoutMjolnirInSpace1.jpg
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He has casually created a force field to contain the blast of nuclear warheads.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/King%20Thor/ContainsNukes1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/King%20Thor/ContainsNukes2.jpg
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He can emit energy without Mjolnir.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/King%20Thor/DefeatsDesak5.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/King%20Thor/DefeatsDesak6.jpgHis hurting Desak himself. And that guy literally drinks godly power. That's like hurting Superman with a blast of pure Solar radiation. The power must have been immense.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I can't recall Thor ever doing something akin to absorbing energy with his hammer while blasting a different opponent which is what I'm assuming your looking for. I don't see why you would ever argue though that he cannot as he has shown he can emit energy from his hands or even in an omnidirectional fashion from his body. C.I.S is not in play here so he'd use tactics his never normally used. This is something everyone's been doing for Norrin.
Sufer on the other hand, has feats where he's absorbing energy from a distant sun while blasting with one hand and sustaining a protective field on in another dimension/universe/astral plane(hard to tell which it was) and also sustaining a forcefield while navigating his board for a friend while he's engaged in combat with someone. I'm not saying that he can use every ability he's got continuosly or anything, but we know for a fact that he can do quite a bit at once.
Originally posted by Galan007
I am quite curious what you're basing this on? I have never seen anything from Surfer that would lead me to believe his energy absorption abilities are Mjolnir-level.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Scans or issue number? Never read this myself or maybe I just forgot.
😱
Originally posted by darthgoober
Was it a defensive vortex he created to carry the people?
His done it many times. Here is one instance:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FlyWithoutMjolnir3.jpg
It obviously has protective properties. Thor is the only there who can survive in space or travel at such speeds unhindered.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but he's still aware of the attack and "willing" the hammer to absorb the energy. I've never seen him just set the absorption to "on" while he goes on about his buisness...
😬
Why would he simply will his hammer to continuously absorb energy? Of course his aware of the attack. If his in a fight, he'd be ready to absorb energy if he needed to. If awareness is the problem in a fight like this he can use his senses to keep him aware of attacks from multiple sources. Or simply protect himself with a force field.
The fact that his tossed Mjolnir at energy and had Mjolnir absorb said energy shows that he can leave a command on Mjolnir to absorb energy but I've never seen him do it continuously and expecting him to do so in a normal environment is rather unreasonable.
In a fight like this he can simple will Mjolnir to continuously absorb energy. That should be no problem. It would have no strain on him.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Seems a bit odd... what book is that from?
Thor Vol. 1 162.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I wouldn't say casually, I mean he does specifically say that he can't hold it forever. He also attributes the feat to the Odin Force...Yeah, I already said that I know he can blast without his hammer, though that was another instance where he attributed it to the Odin Power.
He did it casually. He just said he can't hold it forever which is true. He can't just stay there floating. He either has to absorb the energy or disperse it. He choose to disperse it.
In those instances Thor consciously knew he had the Odin Force so he attributed a lot of his feats without Mjolnir to them. It was revealed however that subconsciously he was blocking the Odin Force with a massive barrier. He was only the King of Asgard in title as he was still the God of Thunder. This revelation happened in Thor Vol. 2 #57.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Because as you guys have mentioned a couple of times now, Thor "wills" things to happen and his will sustains the effects, but it's not as if his "will" is infinite. A human character with the proper training could run as fast a race horse, break a cinder block with one hand, and throw a 100 mile an hour fastball. But that doesn't automatically mean that he could break a cinderblock with one hand and throw a 100 mile an hour fastball with the other WHILE he's running as fast as a race horse. We'd need to see him actually doing all of them at once before we could credit him with that kind of multitasking ability.
When I walk down the street while eating, I'm willing myself to do those things. It seems as if your just trying to find reasons as to why Thor cannot do something that should be no problem to him in such a situation. Something as simply as blasting an opponent while absorbing energy or defending himself is something Thor should be capable of doing easily.
Willpower is something Thor that Thor does not lack at all. He has plenty of willpower to spare. His willpower is truly the most godly think about him in my personal opinion. It's why when his in a human body he can keep toiling in slavery for hours while Gods around him die over the stress and by all rights his human body should have died long ago. It's why Thor can will himself to overpower a being who has all of Thor's own strength added to his own Class 75 strength. It's why Thor can stalemate or hurt beings that should technically be above him.
Heck, at times I really do think Thor's willpower is infinite despite the notion being silly. I mean, he has willed himself to literally resist his weight multiplied infinitely.
Lack of willpower is NOT a problem for Thor.
And it's his want and need that affects Mjolnir more than his will in my opinion. He want's Mjolnir to absorb energy and it does. He doesn't have to exert any force of will over it. It obeys his commands without question except in certain circumstances when other forces were in play.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Sufer on the other hand, has feats where he's absorbing energy from a distant sun while blasting with one hand and sustaining a protective field on in another dimension/universe/astral plane(hard to tell which it was) and also sustaining a forcefield while navigating his board for a friend while he's engaged in combat with someone. I'm not saying that he can use every ability he's got continuosly or anything, but we know for a fact that he can do quite a bit at once.
I never argued Norrin can't do what you mention.
Originally posted by AmbientHeh, there were extenuating circumstances behind a few of those feats. So the fact that you still chose to acknowledge them in lieu of that leads me to believe Surfer's absorption feats aren't as plentiful or as uber as you're claiming.
A plenty; nearly draining Molecule Man of all his energies, absorbing energies from a blackhole, the crunch feat, absorbing energies that could destroy half a universe, a lot more...
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His done it many times. Here is one instance:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/FlyWithoutMjolnir3.jpgIt obviously has protective properties. Thor is the only there who can survive in space or travel at such speeds unhindered.
😬
Why would he simply will his hammer to continuously absorb energy? Of course his aware of the attack. If his in a fight, he'd be ready to absorb energy if he needed to. If awareness is the problem in a fight like this he can use his senses to keep him aware of attacks from multiple sources. Or simply protect himself with a force field.
The fact that his tossed Mjolnir at energy and had Mjolnir absorb said energy shows that he can leave a command on Mjolnir to absorb energy but I've never seen him do it continuously and expecting him to do so in a normal environment is rather unreasonable.
In a fight like this he can simple will Mjolnir to continuously absorb energy. That should be no problem. It would have no strain on him.
Thor Vol. 1 162.
He did it casually. He just said he can't hold it forever which is true. He can't just stay there floating. He either has to absorb the energy or disperse it. He choose to disperse it.
In those instances Thor consciously knew he had the Odin Force so he attributed a lot of his feats without Mjolnir to them. It was revealed however that subconsciously he was blocking the Odin Force with a massive barrier. He was only the King of Asgard in title as he was still the God of Thunder. This revelation happened in Thor Vol. 2 #57.
When I walk down the street while eating, I'm willing myself to do those things. It seems as if your just trying to find reasons as to why Thor cannot do something that should be no problem to him in such a situation. Something as simply as blasting an opponent while absorbing energy or defending himself is something Thor should be capable of doing easily.
Willpower is something Thor that Thor does not lack at all. He has plenty of willpower to spare. His willpower is truly the most godly think about him in my personal opinion. It's why when his in a human body he can keep toiling in slavery for hours while Gods around him die over the stress and by all rights his human body should have died long ago. It's why Thor can will himself to overpower a being who has all of Thor's own strength added to his own Class 75 strength. It's why Thor can stalemate or hurt beings that should technically be above him.
Heck, at times I really do think Thor's willpower is infinite despite the notion being silly. I mean, he has willed himself to literally resist his weight multiplied infinitely.
Lack of willpower is NOT a problem for Thor.
And it's his want and need that affects Mjolnir more than his will in my opinion. He want's Mjolnir to absorb energy and it does. He doesn't have to exert any force of will over it. It obeys his commands without question except in certain circumstances when other forces were in play.
I never argued Norrin can't do what you mention.
Kids are crying so I can't continue an extended debate with this level of involvement(have to step away every couple of minutes), but I'll respond to this one tomorrow...
Iight man. Take your time.
Originally posted by Galan007
Heh, there were extenuating circumstances behind a few of those feats. So the fact that you still chose to acknowledge them in lieu of that leads me to believe Surfer's absorption feats aren't as plentiful or as uber as you're claiming.
Context. It's important people. I could just as well say Thor contained the energies of a reactor with the power to nullify creation as it would sound a lot more impressive. However I said something akin to "Thor tried to contain and eventually failed." in my original post despite it sounding less impressive because it's important.
It just pisses me off when people throw around feats when the context or full story behind them would change someone's view of them in terms of impressiveness.
I challenge someone to post scans or issue numbers of feats that support Norrin being on the level of Mjolnir in terms of energy absorption as I have not seen any.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusQFT.
Iight man. Take your time.Context. It's important people. I could just as well say Thor contained the energies of a reactor with the power to nullify creation as it would sound a lot more impressive. However I said something akin to "Thor tried to contain and eventually failed." in my original post despite it sounding less impressive because it's important.
It just pisses me off when people throw around feats when the context or full story behind them would change someone's view of them in terms of impressiveness.
I challenge someone to post scans or issue numbers of feats that support Norrin being on the level of Mjolnir in terms of energy absorption as I have not seen any.
I'm not saying Surfer doesn't have some good absorption feats under his belt, but if you're going to claim he's got absorbing prowess on Mjolnir's level, you'd better have some solid/unquestionable evidence to support that claim... And I for one, doubt such proof exists.
Originally posted by Galan007
QFT.I'm not saying Surfer doesn't have some good absorption feats under his belt, but if you're going to claim he's got absorbing prowess on Mjolnir's level, you'd better have some solid/unquestionable evidence to support that claim... And I for one, doubt such proof exists.
Agreed. If there was evidence to support Norrin being on the level of Mjolnir in terms of energy absorption I would have no doubt read the evidence in question, seen the scans or at the very least heard of it by this point. I'll concede if there is such evidence but since neither of the things I've listed has happened I'm skeptical.
Originally posted by Galan007
QFT.I'm not saying Surfer doesn't have some good absorption feats under his belt, but if you're going to claim he's got absorbing prowess on Mjolnir's level, you'd better have some solid/unquestionable evidence to support that claim... And I for one, doubt such proof exists.
