The Wrecking Crew vs Ares God of War

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That's it. The underlined part. He was contrasting how Wrecker lashes out in a blind rage, but he himself swore an oath to take no lives.

As you should be well aware from reading Thor, he takes punishment and bides his time looking for ways to defeat his foes without harming them. And as you clearly recognized, he was short on time and Wrecker was berserking. Thor couldn't stop him in such short order without killing him. Which is why when he realized he could use the third railing + Mjolnir's magic, he immediately turned the battle around by stopping his crowbar with a single hand, flipping him over and disenchanting him. He held back during the fight.

Yes, but he had 15 minutes to investigate why the building was originally shaking as stated on-panel. Had he been so absolutely rushed that it would have cost the hospital patient his life, he would have killed the Wrecker because he had no choice. As it stands, he had enough time to tussle with him for a bit while holding back to [b](i) try to talk sense into him and/or (ii) figure out how to stop him without killing him. He held back.

Just because Thor can ragestomp Wrecker who he's become more used to fighting over the years, doesn't mean Wrecker can't be nearly as powerful as him. Like I said, this doesn't diminish the Wrecker's power, but he can't apply it effectively (relatively speaking). [/B]

Read the whole thing as noted that's the only option he was left too and didn't want to do it.

That's nice, but Thor even admitted Wrecker was his equal. No he wasn't holding back his power in the fight, he just didn't want to kill Wrecker and he wasn't even close to coming even to that point as Wrecker already took Thor's blows before when he wanted it to end quick and it literally didn't phase him.

That's nice, but once again Thor admitted Wrecker was his equal in strength and tried right off the bat to take him down and failed.

Why? Wrecker has fought Thor to a standstill before on other occasions.

Also that's just one member of the Crew, what's to stop Thunderball from stealing Ares strength?

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/Avengers-Unplugged04-11.jpg*

*That's mortal Hercules

^ Do the Wrecking Crew get a little girl in danger to distract Ares during battle? If so, then it's possible (though Ares isn't as much a softy as Herc).

Originally posted by -K-M-
Read the whole thing as noted that's the only option he was left too and didn't want to do it.

That's nice, but Thor even admitted Wrecker was his equal. No he wasn't holding back his power in the fight, he just didn't want to kill Wrecker and he wasn't even close to coming even to that point as Wrecker already took Thor's blows before when he wanted it to end quick and it literally didn't phase him.

That's nice, but once again Thor admitted Wrecker was his equal in strength and tried right off the bat to take him down and failed.

Why? Wrecker has fought Thor to a standstill before on other occasions.

Wrecker's power seems to be nearly equal to his own. He's admitted that plenty of times. It doesn't stop Thor from ragestomping him quickly because Thor is an exponentially more skilled fighter and can apply his power far more effectively. Thor did hold back. You can ignore that as much as you like, but it's a running theme in all their fights.

Being nearly equal in strength doesn't prevent Thor from ragestomping him. Thor's got two distinct advantages that allows him to do so, should he decide not to hold back. And this occurs with greater frequency the more they fight.

Wrecker has fought Thor to a standstill before when Thor's held back.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I did read the whole thing. I also posted it. And Thor held back. He was running out of time and if pressed, he could stop holding back and just outright kill him as he has done to other poor foes in the past. But in this case, Thor refused to unleash himself until there was absolutely no choice. Luckily, Thor found that choice when he realized he could disenchant him.

Wrecker's power seems to be nearly equal to his own. He's admitted that plenty of times. It doesn't stop Thor from ragestomping him quickly because Thor is an exponentially more skilled fighter and can apply his power far more effectively. Thor did hold back. You can ignore that as much as you like, but it's a running theme in all their fights.

Being nearly equal in strength doesn't prevent Thor from ragestomping him. Thor's got two distinct advantages that allows him to do so, should he decide not to hold back. And this occurs with greater frequency the more they fight.

Wrecker has fought Thor to a standstill before when Thor's held back.

Except no where was it said he held back his power...nope nope nope. He didn't want to kill Wrecker and only said that in the subway while prior Thor tried to take Wrecker out quick...and he failed. He didn't even phase Wrecker with his "brute-blitz". He wasn't even close to killing Wrecker and thus far didn't have any real advantage over Wrecker. To say he could easily kill him is silly.

Except when Thor beat Wrecker at that time as noted he was weakened as he was power-sharing with the Crew reducing his power. It was only until his training with Ulik that changed. It's a running theme in all their fights? Endulge me where in all their fights does Thor say he holds back? The one time where he sneak attacked them in the pool and were severely damaged from taking the lightening attack (in the pool) when they wern't expecting it?

Except he didn't...as shown.

haha no.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Do the Wrecking Crew get a little girl in danger to distract Ares during battle?

What? He wasn't even fighting the whole crew just Bulldozer and Piledriver and he actually sneak attacked them first. Then Thunderball came out of nowhere and did that attack. I was posting that scan to show he can sap his strength, which he showed he can.

Also T-Ball's wrecking ball has easily caught Spider-Man (Wrapped him up) so is it really unlikely he wouldn't catch the much slower Ares?

KM ftown.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
KM ftown.

I don't even know what that means 🙁

Originally posted by -K-M-
Because he was in prison the whole time and no where was it said or shown he got powered up other then being smarter. Which as shown when Ulik trained him made him more powerful

But he clearly says he was stronger and smarter. Ulik's training made him more versatile sure, but it never increased his strength. It allowed him to apply his raw power to different aspects such as teleportation etc.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Right from the very start he said his time was precious and tried to take out Wrecker early...and he failed. Where did it say or show Thor could kick it up a notch? He was holding his crowbar back with his hammer. Also no he wasn't keeping himself in check as nor where was that stated, and Thor did state multiple times Wrecker was his equal and wanted to end it quick to save the life..but couldn't. So can Wrecker though.

It was near the end that he comments on how time was nearly out so he kicked it up a notch. He held back his crowbar with a single arm and even Wrecker exclaims disbelief at it. What do you think that was intended to imply? He tried to flip him over and he hit Wrecker try to get him to leave, and the Wrecker trips him. That's the extent of his attacks against the Wrecker. The entire time it seemed as if Thor tried to find an alternative way to defeat the Wrecker without killing him. It was near the end when he had no choice that he kicked it up a notch and luckily found an alternative way. The subway rail. Of course he held himself in check. Wrecker even comments on him afraid on using Mjolnir on him and Thor expresses fear of killing him. He said his power equaled him once. Yes, he tried his best to end it without resorting to putting Wrecker down permanently. Really?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ummm...no they wern't. They were screaming in pain. I suggest you reread it.

Where does it say that? I'm pretty sure Piledriver was smiling when it happened. Lol.

Originally posted by -K-M-
He kepted that upgrade as the rest of the Crew were banished to that dimension and came back stronger. Look at the Thunderball vs. Alpha Flight fight. That's one of the powerups I was talking about...and they kepted that.

Okay then.

Originally posted by -K-M-
and Wrecker didn't want to fight Thor, but Thor kepted trying to fight him and he was merely just pestering him. Also Thor put him on his ass? you mean one knee which didn't phase him and then he literally put Thor on his ass a second later?

😬

He didn't initially want to fight Thor but once Thor was there he even states that first he wants to beat Thor and then take it to his father. Don't act as if Thor was some annoyance. I'll give you that. The Wrecker was on one knee when we saw him again. I just recalled him having his crowbar knocked out of his hands and Thor knocking him backwards and I believe we saw a foot or both in the air. Describe phase. Thor was not hurt either. Just knocked off his feet.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Except no where was it said he held back his power...nope nope nope. He didn't want to kill Wrecker and only said that in the subway while prior Thor tried to take Wrecker out quick...and he failed. He didn't even phase Wrecker with his "brute-blitz". He wasn't even close to killing Wrecker and thus far didn't have any real advantage over Wrecker. To say he could easily kill him is silly.

Except when Thor beat Wrecker at that time as noted he was weakened as he was power-sharing with the Crew reducing his power. It was only until his training with Ulik that changed. It's a running theme in all their fights? Endulge me where in all their fights does Thor say he holds back? The one time where he sneak attacked them in the pool and were severely damaged from taking the lightening attack (in the pool) when they wern't expecting it?

Except he didn't...as shown.

haha no.

What would be that "something" that has to change? It's painfully obvious: Thor would have to unleash his full might, (or spoken in a negative manner), he would have to stop holding back his full might. And on Thor holding back in all their fights? I'd rather not waste my time finding each piece of verbiage as you should be damn well aware they're there if you've read them all.

He didn't ragestomp Wrecker in their second canon fight in Thor #171 (the one we're discussing) because he held back.

You're well-read enough such that I cannot chalk your arguments up to innocent ignorance. You're reaching. And whatever motive you have for it doesn't justify your arbitrary dismissal of the clear truth that is reinforced on-panel: Thor holds back against the Wrecking Crew until they piss him off royally. Then follows the ragestomp.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
But he clearly says he was stronger and smarter. Ulik's training made him more versatile sure, but it never increased his strength. It allowed him to apply his raw power to different aspects such as teleportation etc.

Because he learned how to use his powers more, just like when Ulik taught him. Literally the exact same thing. Also no it gave him more strength too as he noted to Thunderball later on.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
[B]It was near the end that he comments on how time was nearly out so he kicked it up a notch. He held back his crowbar with a single arm and even Wrecker exclaims disbelief at it. What do you think that was intended to imply? He tried to flip him over and he hit Wrecker try to get him to leave, and the Wrecker trips him. That's the extent of his attacks against the Wrecker. The entire time it seemed as if Thor tried to find an alternative way to defeat the Wrecker without killing him. It was near the end when he had no choice that he kicked it up a notch and luckily found an alternative way. The subway rail. Of course he held himself in check. Wrecker even comments on him afraid on using Mjolnir on him and Thor expresses fear of killing him. He said his power equaled him once. Yes, he tried his best to end it without resorting to putting Wrecker down permanently. Really?

Yeah and? Spider-Man has done the same thing to stronger people and over-powered them (Spider-Man has even beat Thor). What else was it really implying? This isn't something rare, other people have done it with other characters and really isn't that incredible in the long run. Except as noted he tried to "brute blitz" him and failed as he wanted to end it quick. Why are you guys merely just ignoring that detail? It's like I'm hearing an echo.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Where does it say that? I'm pretty sure Piledriver was smiling when it happened. Lol.

Not stated..shown and no he wasn't smiling.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
😬

He didn't initially want to fight Thor but once Thor was there he even states that first he wants to beat Thor and then take it to his father. Don't act as if Thor was some annoyance. I'll give you that. The Wrecker was on one knee when we saw him again. I just recalled him having his crowbar knocked out of his hands and Thor knocking him backwards and I believe we saw a foot or both in the air. Describe phase. Thor was not hurt either. Just knocked off his feet.

He was an annoyance as after Thor sneak attacked him he hit Thor to the ground and began to walk away. Thor threw his hammer into Wreckers back breifly clashed Thor knocked out his crowbar and then he grabbed it back and laid Thor to the ground and once again began to walk away "Get lost Blondie! I've got other fish to fry"

Indeed, but shows Wrecker can take Thor's blows and literally shrug them off. So to say Ares is going to take out him and the Crew easily? Not going to happen.

Originally posted by -K-M-
I don't even know what that means 🙁

that goes for mungi and the crew

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your justifications for ignoring Thor's own words and every single one of their other fights are exceptionally weak. Thor states he is sworn to kill nobody (even one such as Wrecker). That necessarily suggests that killing him is an option, if he allowed himself to. Ergo, if killing him is an option, then "something" has to change in the fight for Thor to do so, because he wasn't coming even close to killing him at that point.

What would be that "something" that has to change? It's painfully obvious: Thor would have to unleash his full might, (or spoken in a negative manner), he would have to stop holding back his full might. And on Thor holding back in all their fights? I'd rather not waste my time finding each piece of verbiage as you should be damn well aware they're there if you've read them all.

He didn't ragestomp Wrecker in their second canon fight in Thor #171 (the one we're discussing) because he held back.

You're well-read enough such that I cannot chalk your arguments up to innocent ignorance. You're reaching. And whatever motive you have for it doesn't justify your arbitrary dismissal of the clear truth that is reinforced on-panel: Thor holds back against the Wrecking Crew until they piss him off royally. Then follows the ragestomp.

Thor's own words have said Wrecker' is his equal, and that was from a Thor who was serious. So you will accept one but not the other? Oh right he said he could kill them when he sneak attacked the Crew and this is when they first got their powers back and before their further upgrades? Sooo..point?

I have read them and no he doesn't say he constantly holds back in all his fights with the Crew. Also as I mentioned he even beat the Crew when they were significantly weaker.

No he didn't, he said he didn't want to kill as he doesn't want to kill anyone. So does that mean Thor holdsback against everyone now? No. The one way he could win as noted was to kill Wrecker as he said, but even in the fight Thor wasn't even close to doing it.

Not reaching this is fact, and in countless times they have shown to be close in power and have stalemated before. The only other time when he ragestomped them was in Thor #304 [Vol.1], but that of course was a weaker Crew. So point?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Because he learned how to use his powers more, just like when Ulik taught him. Literally the exact same thing. Also no it gave him more strength too as he noted to Thunderball later on.

And that made him stronger? Fine, but for whatever reason he stated he was stronger than before. Okay.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yeah and? Spider-Man has done the same thing to stronger people and over-powered them (Spider-Man has even beat Thor). What else was it really implying? This isn't something rare, other people have done it with other characters and really isn't that incredible in the long run. Except as noted he tried to "brute blitz" him and failed as he wanted to end it quick. Why are you guys merely just ignoring that detail? It's like I'm hearing an echo.

"Yeah and?" What do you think it was supposed to show? Thor sees that there might not be any other option, so he grabs Wrecker and jumps off the train with him against his will. He then holds back his bar with one arm to his disbelief. What do you think this was intended to show besides Thor being able to kick it up a notch? Honestly, your ignoring something that's pretty damn obvious. That's nice for Spider-Man. His done some impressive feats when going all out. How does this affect or change what we are talking about at all? You mean during the Infinity Crusade, where Invisible Woman, Thor and the rest attack him and somehow knock themselves out? Okay and that changes what happened here how? Brute blitz? You mean him flipping Wrecker over, then punching him and telling him to begone? Who's ignoring it?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Not stated..shown and no he wasn't smiling.

Then we have different interpretations. They did not seem to be in pain to me. Wrecker was even standing over Thor about to hit him and he was even talking just fine.

Originally posted by -K-M-
He was an annoyance as after Thor sneak attacked him he hit Thor to the ground and began to walk away. Thor threw his hammer into Wreckers back breifly clashed Thor knocked out his crowbar and then he grabbed it back and laid Thor to the ground and once again began to walk away "Get lost Blondie! I've got other fish to fry"

Lol. Sneak attack? Thor flew at him and even calls him out. As a matter of fact, he doesn't even hit him first. Wrecker hits Thor while his in the air and knocks him down. A sneak attack is what happened in Thor #171 when Wrecker jumps from behind and gets him in something akin to a bear hug. That fight was a basic stalemate. Thor and Wrecker each hurt each other once and knock each other down once. Wrecker wanted to put Thor on his ass and move on. That's all. Don't act as if Thor was not even an obstacle.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Indeed, but shows Wrecker can take Thor's blows and literally shrug them off. So to say Ares is going to take out him and the Crew easily? Not going to happen.

Describe shrug off. Just because we didn't hear him yell out doesn't mean he wasn't phased or anything. Thor knocked the crowbar down and knocked him back. They even thought Thor was going in for the kill but unfortunately that energy re-energized him, and he absorbed it, putting him back into the game.

I don't doubt that Ares would own the utter shit out of the Crew if they fought recently.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Thor's own words have said Wrecker' is his equal, and that was from a Thor who was serious. So you will accept one but not the other? Oh right he said he could kill them when he sneak attacked the Crew and this is when they first got their powers back and before their further upgrades? Sooo..point?

I have read them and no he doesn't say he constantly holds back in all his fights with the Crew. Also as I mentioned he even beat the Crew when they were significantly weaker.

No he didn't, he said he didn't want to kill as he doesn't want to kill anyone. So does that mean Thor holdsback against everyone now? No. The one way he could win as noted was to kill Wrecker as he said, but even in the fight Thor wasn't even close to doing it.

Not reaching this is fact, and in countless times they have shown to be close in power and have stalemated before. The only other time when he ragestomped them was in Thor #304 [Vol.1], but that of course was a weaker Crew. So point?

Yes. Thor holds back against the Wrecking Crew. Anybody who's read their fights and ignores that is nothing short of ignorant.

YES. Thor holds back against ALL his mortal foes. And he has ALWAYS treated the Wrecking Crew that way. If you don't even know this simple immutable fact about Thor, then you're not as well-read as I had assumed. Thor had a choice to kill Wrecker. He chooses not to. But his choosing not to break his oath PRESUPPOSES that he has the choice. And that choice is predicated on something changing with Thor, i.e., not holding back anymore. Don't be dense.

Thor has plenty of opponents who possess peer-like power. But against ineffectatious blokes like the Wrecking Crew, such power doesn't save them from getting ragestomped.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And that made him stronger? Fine, but for whatever reason he stated he was stronger than before. Okay.

Because he learned more about his powers. Not hard to grasp. Echo echo echo

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
"Yeah and?" What do you think it was supposed to show? Thor sees that there might not be any other option, so he grabs Wrecker and jumps off the train with him against his will. He then holds back his bar with one arm to his disbelief. What do you think this was intended to show besides Thor being able to kick it up a notch? Honestly, your ignoring something that's pretty damn obvious. That's nice for Spider-Man. His done some impressive feats when going all out. How does this affect or change what we are talking about at all? You mean during the Infinity Crusade, where Invisible Woman, Thor and the rest attack him and somehow knock themselves out? Okay and that changes what happened here how? Brute blitz? You mean him flipping Wrecker over, then punching him and telling him to begone? Who's ignoring it?

Ummm...your the one saying that shows him clearly becoming stronger when other people even with stronger oppoents have done the same thing. It's really not that special or unique. haha your telling me I'm ignoring the obvious? Lulz, this has happened before with weaker people doing it against stronger people, and prior Thor directly said Wrecker was his equal and tried...literally tried to take Wrecker out quick and easy but couldn't and wasn't even close to doing it. Im talking about the brute blitz before the subway scene, the scene where he specifically says Wrecker is his equal. Echo echo echo.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Then we have different interpretations. They did not seem to be in pain to me. Wrecker was even standing over Thor about to hit him and he was even talking just fine. [/n]

about to hit him? He was screaming same with Piledriver as you can literally see their power escaping them. No way could even even come close to saying there were smiling 😬 All he said was "Hey what're you--?" (and the speech bubble was in jagged like something was up and screaming) and then you can see lightening coming out from them

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
[B]Lol. Sneak attack? Thor flew at him and even calls him out. As a matter of fact, he doesn't even hit him first. Wrecker hits Thor while his in the air and knocks him down. A sneak attack is what happened in Thor #171 when Wrecker jumps from behind and gets him in something akin to a bear hug. That fight was a basic stalemate. Thor and Wrecker each hurt each other once and knock each other down once. Wrecker wanted to put Thor on his ass and move on. That's all. Don't act as if Thor was not even an obstacle.

Sorry I'm talking about several Thor vs. Wrecker fights and getting cross-channeled. That comment was for Thor vol.2 fight. Yes, it definetly was but a bear hug isn't as bad as other other attacks both of them could do *shrugs*.

He even said he wasn't an obstacle and didn't want to fight him as he said had bigger fish to fry and walked off. haha that's said directly and shown in the comic itself. He wanted to move on after the first blow and moved on after the last....shown and stated. Echo echo echo.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Describe shrug off. Just because we didn't hear him yell out doesn't mean he wasn't phased or anything. Thor knocked the crowbar down and knocked him back. They even thought Thor was going in for the kill but unfortunately that energy re-energized him, and he absorbed it, putting him back into the game.

I don't doubt that Ares would own the utter shit out of the Crew if they fought recently.

No physical damage, no period on the ground for any extended period, no blood, and immedately recovered and hit him with a blow that hit him to the ground. No that's a very good indication he WASN'T phased. Yeah and? Prior he took a hammer throw to the spine from behind and was fine

If the Bendis Crew then yes, but that falls under PIS and CIS as blows (not claw attacks) have made members of the crew spit out blood. Yet recently they did better against Savage Hulk then Thor did.

I gotta go. I was just waiting for you reply so I could read it. I'll finish this tomorrow, but LOL at you referencing the new Hulk one shot. Haha. I'm going to bed smiling.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Being nearly peers in strength and power doesn't mean Thor can't ragestomp Wrecker or the entire Wrecking Crew. Your obstinancy would be admirable if Thor hadn't already ragestomped the entire Wrecking Crew on-panel.

Yes. Thor holds back against the Wrecking Crew. Anybody who's read their fights and ignores that is nothing short of ignorant.

YES. Thor holds back against ALL his mortal foes. And he has ALWAYS treated the Wrecking Crew that way. If you don't even know this simple immutable fact about Thor, then you're not as well-read as I had assumed. Thor had a choice to kill Wrecker. He chooses not to. But his choosing not to break his oath PRESUPPOSES that he has the choice. And that choice is predicated on something changing with Thor, i.e., not holding back anymore. Don't be dense.

Thor has plenty of opponents who possess peer-like power. But against ineffectatious blokes like the Wrecking Crew, such power doesn't save them from getting ragestomped.

Ok? Based on? especially when you were using examples were the Crew was significantly weaker and before their upgrades. Wrecker alone has shown to be a match for Thor (and no I DO NOT think he can beat Thor) on multple occasions and factoring in the other Crew...Ares is not stomping anything.

Ok, please show me these quotes then with the Crew. Show me what I'm ignoring.

Has he now? Because he has said otherwise. So what do we take for face value then? Hmmm.... Also Thor had a chance to kill Wrecker? haha when? Seriously when did Thor have the upperhand in the fight before the rail track part? Seriously....are you ok? You may be sleepy. Not dense this is stated and shown, which you clearly don't like but not suprized.

Lulz, yet he really only has steamrolled them two times. One when they were significantly weaker before their countless upgrades, and other time when he sneak attacked them and they just got their powers back and before more of their upgrades. Also the Crew have powers and abilities themselves, their not just brutes.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I gotta go. I was just waiting for you reply so I could read it. I'll finish this tomorrow, but LOL at you referencing the new Hulk one shot. Haha. I'm going to bed smiling.

I think it's garbage myself, and down right outrageous they did that to him and having the battle just 3 pages? Bullcrap.

Nite.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ok? Based on? especially when you were using examples were the Crew was significantly weaker and before their upgrades. Wrecker alone has shown to be a match for Thor (and no I DO NOT think he can beat Thor) on multple occasions and factoring in the other Crew...Ares is not stomping anything.

Ok, please show me these quotes then with the Crew. Show me what I'm ignoring.

Has he now? Because he has said otherwise. So what do we take for face value then? Hmmm.... Also Thor had a chance to kill Wrecker? haha when? Seriously when did Thor have the upperhand in the fight before the rail track part? Seriously....are you ok? You may be sleepy. Not dense this is stated and shown, which you clearly don't like but not suprized.

Lulz, yet he really only has steamrolled them two times. One when they were significantly weaker before their countless upgrades, and other time when he sneak attacked them and they just got their powers back and before more of their upgrades. Also the Crew have powers and abilities themselves, their not just brutes.

If you can't even help but recognize the first one that occurs in their second canon fight, I find your request to be rather dubious. Further elaborated below.

You're suggesting that Thor has said that he doesn't restrain his might while on Earth? Tell me you're joking. Thor had the choice to kill Wrecker in their fight in Thor #171. And he literally stated "But I am sworn to take no life ... not even such as his! I must find another way ... and by the Golden Gates ... I shall!" And guess what? By the Golden Gates, he did find another way. He literally refused to unleash his might on him and kill him. What aren't you getting:

Let's discuss these countless upgrades that make everything so much more different now. You and I. Right now. Issue #'s, if not scans.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Significantly weaker because of which upgrades exactly? Issue #'s, if not scans. I'm aware of how you reference several of them, but lay it out and we'll discuss them here and now (or tomorrow).

-Ulik training (Thor #418 [Vol.1])
-Energy Absorption-Avengers #16 [Vol.3]:
-Dimensional Interface (Thor #171-Wrecker, Alpha Flight #119-Crew)
-Tanaraq upgrade (Omega Flight #3-Lost this)

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you can't even help but recognize the first one that occurs in their second canon fight, I find your request to be rather dubious. Further elaborated below.

Thor #171 isn't their second canon fight. 1st was Thor #148 and the second was Thor #149. Show me where he says in each of their fights he holds back as you claim?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're suggesting that Thor has said that he doesn't restrain his might while on Earth? Tell me you're joking. Thor had the choice to kill Wrecker in their fight in Thor #171. And he literally stated "But I am sworn to take [b]no life ... not even such as his! I must find another way ... and by the Golden Gates ... I shall!" And guess what? By the Golden Gates, he did find another way. He literally refused to unleash his might on him end kill him. What aren't you getting:[/b]

haha wow because he said he swore he won't kill means he was close to killing Wrecker? lulz, and I'm being the unreasonable one here? Silly me. Show me where Thor ANYWHERE in the fight even came close to killing Wrecker or even beating him. Hell I'll even accept a scan of Thor making Wrecker bleed and as you say he could have killed him there must be the scan right? No? Oh, then why are you making that claim? Wrecker says he can kill Thor in other apperances do we take that as face value? No, as he has never came close to killing Thor (Sans the weakened fight), as actions speak louder then words and not once in that fight did Thor even come close to killing Wrecker in the least.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Yeah and? So that means we have never seen Thor's full power as he doesn't always go for the kill shot? Hmmmm...interesting.

but...but...but what about the scene prior Thor even admits Wrecker is just as strong as him and tried to take Wrecker out quick and easy and failed...so we will accept one comment but ignore the other? Interesting.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/Thor171-14.jpg