Originally posted by psycho gundam
maybe thor was trying to butter him up with that compliment, wrecker isn't that smart.abd seriously, he isn't thor's equal though, that is pretty evident in the grand scheme of things.
Heh! but no.
Ideally no I wouldn't say so either (sans Tanaraq upgrade or some outrageous energy boost). My point is if he can give a fight to Thor in multiple occasions why would Ares stomp him and the Crew?
Originally posted by -K-M-
Heh! but no.Ideally no I wouldn't say so either (sans Tanaraq upgrade or absorb lots amount of energy). My point is if he can give a fight to Thor in multiple occasions why would Ares stomp him and the Crew?
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
a sharp axe and completely different mindset and morality, i would imagine would make the difference. 😬
You can literally say the same thing about the Crew and their weapons. If we want to become specific Ikaris one-shotted Ares.
Originally posted by -K-M-Let's take these in chronological order:
-Ulik training (Thor #418 [Vol.1])
-Energy Absorption-Avengers #16 [Vol.3]:
-Dimensional Interface (Thor #171-Wrecker, Alpha Flight #119-Crew)
-Tanaraq upgrade (Omega Flight #3-Lost this)
1) The Ulik training from Thor #418 is valid because they learned new abilities and have demonstrated their use thereafter. But the bottom-line is, it still didn't stop Thor from ragestomping them thereafter.
2) Dimensional Interface from Thunderstrike #14 (which you likely meant) and Alpha Flight #119 is invalid because apparently you think those comics suggested that Wrecker found a way to amp himself with energies from the dimension Loki banished him to. And thereafter, you apparently believe Thunderball found a way for all four members to amp themselves through those dimensional energies.
Both premises are false: (i) Wrecker may have been aware of why he was being amped in the first scan, but he never managed to control and harness that ability as shown in the second scan; and (ii) Thunderball only found a way to redistribute the energies they shared freely without relying on Wrecker. He never found a way to harness those interdimensional energies with his trans-dimensional power siphon. Indeed, he actually invented that machinery "long before" Wrecker was banished by Loki. The machinery has nothing to do with the interdimensional energies.
Do you know exactly why I am so sure of both conclusion? Because the entire Wrecking Crew begins losing their powers due to the artificial Ragnarok in Journey Into Mystery #505:
This is utter proof that Wrecker never learned to harness the interdimensional energies outside of Thunderstrike #14 otherwise he would have just replenished his waning power. It's also utter proof that Thunderball couldn't use his machine to harness those interdimensional energies either, since his power is diminishing as well. Bottom-line is they never demonstrated an ability to harness those interdimensional energies thereafter.
^ continued:
3) Energy Absorption from Avengers vol.3 #16-18 is invalid because the so-called upgrade was just an unstable poor-man's substitute for their original Asgardian powers. They literally state that themselves in the first scan. And while Monica Rambeau does amp them increasingly over a few issues, (making them formidable), she demonstrates its unreliability by purposefully recharging them over and over again to burn them out like how "a rechargeable battery does as it wears out" as stated in the scond scan:
And whether you argue they retain this ability and that makes them more formidable to Thor than before, that's garbage. In Thor vol.2 #28, the Wrecking Crew go after Thor and the Warrior's Three because, again, their Zola-given abilities are a poor-man's substitute. Wrecker literally admits, " [R]emember how we used to have soopernatural Asgardian powers that made us stronger than we are now?" in the first scan:
So they go out and drain energies from them and they're restored to their original state. And you know what happens to them after all these supposed "upgrades" you're trying to rely on? Bottom-line is they get immediately ragestomped by Thor:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0So tell me again how the first three upgrades (which aren't really upgrades at all) and a non-existent fourth upgrade (which you admit they lost during Omega Flight already) changes how Thor can ragestomp them? These Wrecking Crew "upgrades" are myths. And made-up myths don't change how Thor has ragestomped the Wrecking Crew multiple times. If you wish to continue this discussion, let me know.
============
[b]Wrecking Crew
============Thor vs Wrecking Crew again, from Thor vol. 2 #29:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsWreckingCrew05v229.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsWreckingCrew06.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsWreckingCrew07.jpg[/B]
thor #171 and thor #191 wrecker says the same line about too many do gooders and lessening that number by killing thor almost word for word. strange
herc basically two pages the entire crew though, but it was after getting his ass handed to him by them first, without thor they could have kept going on a downed herculese though. hmmmm
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Let's take these in chronological order:[b]1)
The Ulik training from Thor #418 is valid because they learned new abilities and have demonstrated their use thereafter. But the bottom-line is, it still didn't stop Thor from ragestomping them thereafter.2) Dimensional Interface from Thunderstrike #14 (which you likely meant) and Alpha Flight #119 is invalid because apparently you think those comics suggested that Wrecker found a way to amp himself with energies from the dimension Loki banished him to. And thereafter, you apparently believe Thunderball found a way for all four members to amp themselves through those dimensional energies.
Both premises are false: (i) Wrecker may have been aware of why he was being amped in the first scan, but he never managed to control and harness that ability as shown in the second scan; and (ii) Thunderball only found a way to redistribute the energies they shared freely without relying on Wrecker. He never found a way to harness those interdimensional energies with his trans-dimensional power siphon. Indeed, he actually invented that machinery "long before" Wrecker was banished by Loki. The machinery has nothing to do with the interdimensional energies.
Both are false? heh! Let's ignore the little detail where Wrecker and Thunderball were said to be stronger then ever. Also what did your scans show?
Do you know exactly why I am so sure of both conclusion? Because the entire Wrecking Crew begins losing their powers due to the artificial Ragnarok in Journey Into Mystery #505:
This is utter proof that Wrecker never learned to harness the interdimensional energies outside of Thunderstrike #14 otherwise he would have just replenished his waning power. It's also utter proof that Thunderball couldn't use his machine to harness those interdimensional energies either, since his power is diminishing as well. Bottom-line is they never demonstrated an ability to harness those interdimensional energies thereafter. [/B]
1) Ok? Never said that upgrade alone would even close to being enough.
2) Yeah sorry meant Thunderstrike. Both are false? heh! Let's ignore the little detail where Wrecker and Thunderball were said to be stronger then ever. Also what did your scans show? and as noted when he was fighting Alpha Flight he was getting stronger with each passing second
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/AlphaFlight118-21-1.jpg
So it was more then just redirecting energies, regarding the Journey to the Mystery they were losing their power as you noted as they were being taken away. It didn't just wear off you even said so yourself. 😬
4) Invalid Heh! Yet those absorbing energeries powers were giving Wrecker over the edge against Thor when he was stealing Photon's powers and Thor #171 Thor was impressed. If they don't have energy to steal yeah their most definetly weaker, but once they got their asgardian powers back their base strength became stronger and they retained that energy absorption ability making them have more power other then just brute strength. The Crew have far more abilities then Ares could hope for.
Heh! They got ragestomped when they were sneakattacked and just got their powers back. Hell Thunderball was out of the fight even before they knew there was a fight. While Bulldozer was in the pool Thor threw his hammer at him, and Thor uses the crowbar on Wrecker and Piledriver which as noted he can't....
1. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/SpectacularSpider-Man126-03.jpg
2. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Thor_1990_418_07.jpg
So they only ragestomped them once when he sneak attacked them, when they just got their powers back and how he took out Piledriver and Wrecker was PIS.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So tell me again how the first three upgrades (which aren't really upgrades at all) and a non-existent fourth upgrade (which you admit they lost during Omega Flight already) changes how Thor can ragestomp them? These Wrecking Crew "upgrades" are myths. And made-up myths don't change how Thor has ragestomped the Wrecking Crew multiple times. If you wish to continue this discussion, let me know.
Arn't really upgrades at all? Heh! funny as they say their upgrades in the comics, but guess you won't accept those quotes either then? Yeah I said they lost their Omega Flight, so what was the point of that comment? but really they still should have their other upgrades but of course are often ignored. For instance when was the last time we have seen Wrecker do an energy blast? We know he can do it, but never shown. Well considering the Crew have stalemated Thor, and Wrecker alone has stalemated Thor himself I think the evidence saying he can't ragestomp them is on the side of the majority of the comics rather then just the one instance your talking about where basically he sneakattacked them and took out 2 members even before they knew what was going on. Not even Hulk can ragestomp the Crew and they have fought him several times (one time, Wrecker one-shotted him). Compelling arguement 👆
haha myths? On-panel statements saying their upgrades is a myth? Oh heaven arn't you precious.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i'm with you on the crew hanging ares out to dry, he's no thor.
Agreed.
Originally posted by -K-M-That in tandem with any of these phantom upgrades you rely on haven't done anything close enough to give them any appreciable advantage over a Thor who stops holding back. Reread Thor vol.2 #29.
1) Ok? Never said that upgrade alone would even close to being enough.
Originally posted by -K-M-Wrecker was stronger than ever in that specific story. Nowhere else. One-time plot device does not a permanent upgrade make. Thunderball was simply drawing an increasing share of their shared power (perfectly plausible, if not the correct, answer): (i) nothing shows Thunderball drawing on the interdimensional energies specifically; (ii) nothing shows that the machine was deisgned to draw interdimensional energies (in fact, he designed it long before Wrecker was even banished there); and (iii) MOST IMPORTANTLY, they never show a capacity to draw on those energies thereafter.
2) Yeah sorry meant Thunderstrike. Both are false? heh! Let's ignore the little detail where Wrecker and Thunderball were said to be stronger then ever. Also what did your scans show? and as noted when he was fighting Alpha Flight he was getting stronger with each passing secondhttp://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/AlphaFlight118-21-1.jpg
So it was more then just redirecting energies, regarding the Journey to the Mystery they were losing their power as you noted as they were being taken away. It didn't just wear off you even said so yourself.
Whether we disagree on whether such an ability ever existed in the first place, it's irresponsible to ignore that they never drew on it thereafter. After all, they were using Zola's crappy substitute to draw on random sources when stripped of their Asgardian-borne powers, so why not use this wonderful doohicky to draw on these interdimensional energies? That informs me quite well what's occurring now, and what occurred then: Wrecker never figured out how to re-access those interdimensional energies. Thunderball's machine only gave him access to free power-sharing of their current pool of power (as returned from Loki upon his defeat) in a bid to be leader (which failed). It never drew on those interdimensional energies.
^ continued:
Originally posted by -K-M-They're restored to their original state. They had no more use for Zola's unreliable substitute upgrades. Why would they use inferior abilities when their original Asgardian-borne abilities exceed them? They're utterly superfluous: "Hey, I have sh1tty energy absorption capabilities now." "Hey, I just got my superior Asgardian-borne energy absorption abilities back!!" "Idea! Let me keep using the sh1tty energy absorption abilities!" . . . Come to think of it, they might just be stupid enough to do that.
4) Invalid Heh! Yet those absorbing energeries powers were giving Wrecker over the edge against Thor when he was stealing Photon's powers and Thor #171 Thor was impressed. If they don't have energy to steal yeah their most definetly weaker, but once they got their asgardian powers back their base strength became stronger and they retained that energy absorption ability making them have more power other then just brute strength. The Crew have far more abilities then Ares could hope for.
Originally posted by -K-M-I don't buy the "Thor ambushed them so it doesn't count" excuse. Still ragestomped them. Badly. As he has done before when he's lost his patience. This speaks against the establishment of these phantom upgrades in the first place. You can't ignore that they haven't used it to gain any appreciable advantage over Thor. Wrecker has been smacked by his own crowbar several times, usually by strong people. No need to think too hard about it.
Heh! They got ragestomped when they were sneakattacked and just got their powers back. Hell Thunderball was out of the fight even before they knew there was a fight. While Bulldozer was in the pool Thor threw his hammer at him, and Thor uses the crowbar on Wrecker and Piledriver which as noted he can't....1. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/SpectacularSpider-Man126-03.jpg
2. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Thor_1990_418_07.jpgSo they only ragestomped them once when he sneak attacked them, when they just got their powers back and how he took out Piledriver and Wrecker was PIS.
Originally posted by -K-M-Wrecking Crew have held their own when Thor holds back. Everytime he's pushed past the limits of his patience, he ragestomps them with his full strength/powers. Using low feats from Hulk who has been knocked out by less than even a jobbing Wrecking Crew doesn't change that.
Arn't really upgrades at all? Heh! funny as they say their upgrades in the comics, but guess you won't accept those quotes either then? Yeah I said they lost their Omega Flight, so what was the point of that comment? but really they still should have their other upgrades but of course are often ignored. For instance when was the last time we have seen Wrecker do an energy blast? We know he can do it, but never shown. Well considering the Crew have stalemated Thor, and Wrecker alone has stalemated Thor himself I think the evidence saying he can't ragestomp them is on the side of the majority of the comics rather then just the one instance your talking about where basically he sneakattacked them and took out 2 members even before they knew what was going on. Not even Hulk can ragestomp the Crew and they have fought him several times (one time, Wrecker one-shotted him). Compelling arguementhaha myths? On-panel statements saying their upgrades is a myth? Oh heaven arn't you precious.
Twisting comics for your own purposes in contravention of logic doesn't = on-panel upgrade. You haven't established their existence/use, much less their game-changing nature.
Heh! I only read one part of your post and that was all I needed to read. Did you seriously say it doesn't matter that Thor sneak attacked them? He even took two members of the Crew out before they even knew what was going on and did something which is stated in the comic he can't? Heh! and your telling me I'm twisting things around, but good to know sneak attacks are accurate portrayals though. I got to remember that.
Wild Shadow the majority thinks the Crew wins
Just read a recent hulk comic... Where hulk easily handles all four wrecking crew members who were asking for a ransom or they would destroy mount rushmore... After defeating them Thor arrives and bloodies hulk up... Hulk in turn wtfpwns Thor with his own hammer.
Hulk ftw. Hehe.
Err. But ares still loses here. :-)
Originally posted by rotiart
Just read a recent hulk comic... Where hulk easily handles all four wrecking crew members who were asking for a ransom or they would destroy mount rushmore... After defeating them Thor arrives and bloodies hulk up... Hulk in turn wtfpwns Thor with his own hammer.Hulk ftw. Hehe.
Err. But ares still loses here. :-)
I still can't believe they ended the thor vs. hulk fight the way they did.
