I stand by my earlier quote
Originally posted by BUSTER1
As I have said before on similar threads, without bfr, Juggy wins-not easily though.
Pure strength:Hulk>Juggs
Durability:Juggs>>Hulk
Stamina:Juggs>>Hulk
HF/Regen: equal, but Cain has the edge as his total invulnerabilty means he wont be injured, and so won't have to call on his HF.
Fighting skill:equal
I see fight being long and hard, lasting several days-but Juggy won't tire and won't be hurt, so he eventually wears Hulk down.
Originally posted by SamZEDBfring because you don't have the time to continually just beat everyone who gets in your way was explained in the book. The Hulk even addressed his previous losses and that they didn't pertain to this new smarter, stronger Hulk.
It would've been a debate if you tried to provide any arguments at all. Other than a bfr in the book. So far it was me explaining why Juggeranut is superior in every way and you ignoring it because you don't like it.Why would I be upset with his abilities, I could honestly give a crap about Hulk even if he stomps Thanos one day, but it doesnt change KMC rules. PIS is PIS. The whole story was about more powerful characters who could own Hulk in a blink jobbing to him. Its a fact.
How getting rid of him was off the table? Sorry but its just an excduse. They could've easilly send him on a trip with a oneway ticket and the whole "friendship" and "he'll come back somehow anyway" is bs excuses made for the same reason, so Hulk could kick everyone's ass via PIS.
You're talking about bias here? Basically you give Hulk the majority because he MIGHT bfr Juggernaut and think that Juggernaut for God knows what reason can't bfr him. Which you can't even explain. Also you think that Hulk can somehow overcome the power of cytorak with a PUNCH and manage to knock Juggs out even though he wasn't able to even scratch him before, not to mention you're 100% sure Juggernaut can't hurt or ko Hulk even though he hurt him and knocked him out in the past, and in the very crappy WWH story he was making Hulk bleed and Hulk was clearly hurt by the punches yet you say Juggs wont be able to eventually knock him out and you CAN'T explain ANY of it. You just go "nananana limitless strength nananana" And call ME biased and a hater...😬 My reasoning is pretty simple. When a character that normally should stomp another character who is much less powerful than him but gets stomped on for the sake of a story with silly excuses like "friendship" etc it's PIS. That's what happened with Reed and that's what happened with Strange. Dont get me started on the Sentry. And I know WWH is SUPPOSEDLY stronger than Hulk, thank you, doesnt change the fact that he failed to hurt Juggs and was getting hurt just like any other version of the Hulk Juggs faced so stop even trying to use "WWH is different" as an argument. He's gonna get knocked out just the same. Maybe with 2 extra punches. And now you throw random Juggernaut losses to prove a point? Of him getting cheapshotted by Skaar? Helps your case a lot... :facepalm: Ok Hulk got his ass kicked by Spider-man. Twice or even three times. Yay? I can think of half a dozen streetlevelers who beat the Hulk. So dont go there, its WWH vs Juggernaut fight we're talking about and Juggernaut is superior in every way, that's all that matters. And yes WWH hf was crap, took him several pages to heal his eyes, ignore it all you like its a fact, normal Hulk had better display of HF.
You calling me biased is kinda funny. My reasons - Juggs got the strength, better HF, shields, unstopability, can't die, can't tire, has easilly hurt WWH with a few punches and knocked out Hulk before, is indestructible, and his durability >>>>>>>>>>> WWH's AND on top of that can BFR Hulk onto sun. While Hulk got "limitless strength" that for some reason wasnt a match for Juggernaut's strength, a healing factor that doesnt save him from Juggernaut's punches and small TINY chance of bfr. And going by that you give him the majority and call ME biased and a hater.🤨 Oh yeah AND he's smarter too. Yay for him. Reed, Strange aside you failed to counter any of my arguments or even try to explain why all the options Juggernaut has wouldnt work. You simply base the outcome of the fight on the simple fact that you like Hulk a lot. And that's ridiculous.
Not. At. All. If something happens it still happens and you cannot ignore it simply because you disagree with it. This isn't cbr so it isn't a board where the comics mean nothing and everything is based on powersets alone.
They already sent him away once and that didn't work. Look it wasn't your story to tell so please stop with how you would have done it it doesn't matter. This was all addressed.
Hulk did bfr him while you conclude Juggs can is beyond me when Hulk is smarter, can get stronger as he sees fit, and is quicker anyways.
This was all addressed and a more powerful Hulk who defeated this character twice in one story and stated what happened in the past is irrelevant. You don't seem to understand that a more powerful version of a character means less powerful versions don't carry the same weight here in a debate. Hulk crushed his helmet and stood him up and then easily dismissed him. He was injured worse by the mutant teams and he still stomped all of them than by juggs. Hulk won Juggs lost so please accept reality.
That's where you are wrong the writer rammed the point home Hulk was a lot badder than we usually see him at and smarter when fighting. He could still be beaten but not by someone like the juggernaut who is a brick who is less intelligent, has strength limits, etc. Hulk already bested him and bled more by the prior teams of mutants he faced.
How does juggs have the strength when they were even? Does Hulk's strength increase as battles progress or not?
This is WW Hulk not Hulk so your examples are irrelevant. I don't use Juggs losses to justify 8th day Juggs losing. You need to realize the obvious here before debate can continue.
How did WW Hulk lose? What happened to other Hulks is irrelevant by the way. You have nothing. Hulk clearly wins this again.
Originally posted by quanchi112And that would've been fine if he COULD'VE beaten him but he couldn't. Even the writers themselvs couldn't think of a way for Hulk to beat him, hence the PIS solution.
Bfring because you don't have the time to continually just beat everyone who gets in your way was explained in the book. The Hulk even addressed his previous losses and that they didn't pertain to this new smarter, stronger Hulk.
Originally posted by quanchi112😬 Ok. Squirrel Girl beating Thanos. Spider-man beating Hulk. Spider-man beating Firelord. Deathstroke owning Flash. Deathstroke owning Jusitce League. Black Panther owning SIlver Surfer. Venom beating Superman. You are perfectly fine with all that as well? And let me guess if I make a Squirrel Girl vs Thanos thread you will argue in SG's favor? Right... I do not ignore anything because I disagree, I simply know PIS when I see it, that is exactly why KMC has PIS CIS rules. And I unlike you take it into account.
Not. At. All. If something happens it still happens and you cannot ignore it simply because you disagree with it. This isn't cbr so it isn't a board where the comics mean nothing and everything is based on powersets alone.
originally posted by quanchi112Ofcourse it wasn't. It was a "look how badass Hulk is, he's so badass and angry he can beat anyone" kind of story. And while its fun to read, I wouldn't suggest you use it on a vs forum. Hulk comes back, Strange blinks and Hulk is gone, he somehow comes back again in 10 years Strange blinks again and Hulk is gone again. A fight between them that goes by a different scenario and ends with Strange losing is pis. You know I could create a Strange vs Hulk thread and you'll see how it goes.
They already sent him away once and that didn't work. Look it wasn't your story to tell so please stop with how you would have done it it doesn't matter. This was all addressed.
Originally posted by quanchi112Juggernaut is stronger as proven on pannel. Hulk being faster (combat speed) is a speculation. And "smarter" its not a spelling bee. Since Juggernaut is as strong or even stronger he can grab Hulk and throw him into space. Heck that would've been possible even IF he weren't as strong. There I explained how Juggs can bfr Hulk. Now you please explain what makes that so absolutely impossible.
Hulk did bfr him while you conclude Juggs can is beyond me when Hulk is smarter, can get stronger as he sees fit, and is quicker anyways.
Originally posted by quanchi112 [/B]You ask me not to bring their past encounters saying they are irrelevant, yet you bring up Hulk defeating a weakened Juggernaut who isn't even 1/10 of his normal abilities and think this somehow proves your point, dont kid yourself. Juggernaut defeating Hulk before is not irrelevant as the gap (if there's any at all) between normal POed Hulk and WWH is tiny. It proves Hulk can be knocked out by Juggernaut's punches. And even WWH was getting hurt by Juggernaut's punches. Since Hulk's punches are useless against Juggs its pretty much a onesided beating, a test of Hulk's durability and looking at his condition after 3 punches its safe to say he was gonna drop sooner or later, most likely sooner. If you're gonna insist that Hulk can take such punishment all day you really should try to back it up with something, because judging by the very WWH book you like so much the PISy bfr is the only thing that saved him brom getting his ass kicked.
This was all addressed and a more powerful Hulk who defeated this character twice in one story and stated what happened in the past is irrelevant. You don't seem to understand that a more powerful version of a character means less powerful versions don't carry the same weight here in a debate. Hulk crushed his helmet and stood him up and then easily dismissed him. He was injured worse by the mutant teams and he still stomped all of them than by juggs. Hulk won Juggs lost so please accept reality.[/B]
Originally posted by quanchi112He can't be beaten by someone like Juggernaut based on what? And how's Juggs strength limited? By what? So far we didnt get to see his upper limit, he was alway a match for a pissed off Hulk and already PHYSICALLY overpowered WWH. What on earth makes you so sure that his class 100+ punches that are rivaling Hulk's own wont put Hulk down evntually? It was made pretty clear that he can be hurt by Juggernaut's punches and his healing factor doesnt make him untouchable, simply lets him heal the damage but it has its limits. And Juggs punches are more than enough to bypass those limits. Nothing suggests otherwise. You got it all wrong, it's Juggernaut who cant be beaten by a brick because Hulk has nothing to offer but his strength, while Hulk CAN be beaten with enough brute strength. And Juggs has more than enough.
That's where you are wrong the writer rammed the point home Hulk was a lot badder than we usually see him at and smarter when fighting. He could still be beaten but not by someone like the juggernaut who is a brick who is less intelligent, has strength limits, etc. Hulk already bested him and bled more by the prior teams of mutants he faced.
Originally posted by quanchi112They were even for a while with Juggeranut eventually overpowering him. It was a test of strength. WWH is not stronger than Juggernaut. It seems to me you think he's class 100 like Thing or Colossus.😬
How does juggs have the strength when they were even? Does Hulk's strength increase as battles progress or not?
Originally posted by quanchi112But you use a weakened version of Juggernaut losng to WWH.😬 And you must understand something - Gap between Hulk and WWH does NOT = gap between Juggernaut and 8th day Juggernaut. Not even between Superman and sundipped Superman. Not even between classic Spider-man and upgraded Spider-man. The gap is TINY. He might be more durable and smarter, strength and hf can be argued and that's IT. And this gap makes from little to know difference seeing how WWH was damaged by Juggernaut's punches JUST like ordinary Hulk was damaged by them. He's upgrated I give you that, but thinking that it makes him ubeatable by a juggernaut level character is a false assumption that controdicts the very book WWH appeared in.
This is WW Hulk not Hulk so your examples are irrelevant. I don't use Juggs losses to justify 8th day Juggs losing. You need to realize the obvious here before debate can continue.
Originally posted by quanchi112How did WW Hulk lose? What happened to other Hulks is irrelevant by the way. You have nothing. Hulk clearly wins this again.
Both can BFR, Their speed roughly =, their skills roughly =, their strength roughly =, yet Juggernaut CAN hurt and ko Hulk while Hulk CAN'T hurt or ko Juggernaut. Hence I give Juggernaut the majority, this is my simple logical chain. I honsetly dont understand yours.
Originally posted by SamZEDHe bfr'd him to beat him. That's what happened and it was eezy peezy. Bottom line is it occurred and isn't pis by any means.
And that would've been fine if he COULD'VE beaten him but he couldn't. Even the writers themselvs couldn't think of a way for Hulk to beat him, hence the PIS solution.
😬 Ok. Squirrel Girl beating Thanos. Spider-man beating Hulk. Spider-man beating Firelord. Deathstroke owning Flash. Deathstroke owning Jusitce League. Black Panther owning SIlver Surfer. Venom beating Superman. You are perfectly fine with all that as well? And let me guess if I make a Squirrel Girl vs Thanos thread you will argue in SG's favor? Right... I do not ignore anything because I disagree, I simply know PIS when I see it, that is exactly why KMC has PIS CIS rules. And I unlike you take it into account.
Ofcourse it wasn't. It was a "look how badass Hulk is, he's so badass and angry he can beat anyone" kind of story. And while its fun to read, I wouldn't suggest you use it on a vs forum. Hulk comes back, Strange blinks and Hulk is gone, he somehow comes back again in 10 years Strange blinks again and Hulk is gone again. A fight between them that goes by a different scenario and ends with Strange losing is pis. You know I could create a Strange vs Hulk thread and you'll see how it goes.
Juggernaut is stronger as proven on pannel. Hulk being faster (combat speed) is a speculation. And "smarter" its not a spelling bee. Since Juggernaut is as strong or even stronger he can grab Hulk and throw him into space. Heck that would've been possible even IF he weren't as strong. There I explained how Juggs can bfr Hulk. Now you please explain what makes that so absolutely impossible.You ask me not to bring their past encounters saying they are irrelevant, yet you bring up Hulk defeating a weakened Juggernaut who isn't even 1/10 of his normal abilities and think this somehow proves your point, dont kid yourself. Juggernaut defeating Hulk before is not irrelevant as the gap (if there's any at all) between normal POed Hulk and WWH is tiny. It proves Hulk can be knocked out by Juggernaut's punches. And even WWH was getting hurt by Juggernaut's punches. Since Hulk's punches are useless against Juggs its pretty much a onesided beating, a test of Hulk's durability and looking at his condition after 3 punches its safe to say he was gonna drop sooner or later, most likely sooner. If you're gonna insist that Hulk can take such punishment all day you really should try to back it up with something, because judging by the very WWH book you like so much the PISy bfr is the only thing that saved him brom getting his ass kicked.
He can't be beaten by someone like Juggernaut based on what? And how's Juggs strength limited? By what? So far we didnt get to see his upper limit, he was alway a match for a pissed off Hulk and already PHYSICALLY overpowered WWH. What on earth makes you so sure that his class 100+ punches that are rivaling Hulk's own wont put Hulk down evntually? It was made pretty clear that he can be hurt by Juggernaut's punches and his healing factor doesnt make him untouchable, simply lets him heal the damage but it has its limits. And Juggs punches are more than enough to bypass those limits. Nothing suggests otherwise. You got it all wrong, it's Juggernaut who cant be beaten by a brick because Hulk has nothing to offer but his strength, while Hulk CAN be beaten with enough brute strength. And Juggs has more than enough.
They were even for a while with Juggeranut eventually overpowering him. It was a test of strength. WWH is not stronger than Juggernaut. It seems to me you think he's class 100 like Thing or Colossus.😬
But you use a weakened version of Juggernaut losng to WWH.😬 And you must understand something - Gap between Hulk and WWH does NOT = gap between Juggernaut and 8th day Juggernaut. Not even between Superman and sundipped Superman. Not even between classic Spider-man and upgraded Spider-man. The gap is TINY. He might be more durable and smarter, strength and hf can be argued and that's IT. And this gap makes from little to know difference seeing how WWH was damaged by Juggernaut's punches JUST like ordinary Hulk was damaged by them. He's upgrated I give you that, but thinking that it makes him ubeatable by a juggernaut level character is a false assumption that controdicts the very book WWH appeared in.Why? PLEASE explain to me WHY and HOW does he take the majority? 30 posts and you didn't yet tell me. Lets compare notes. Arguents like "smarter" and "more educated" aside we have:
Both can BFR, Their speed roughly =, their skills roughly =, their strength roughly =, yet Juggernaut CAN hurt and ko Hulk while Hulk CAN'T hurt or ko Juggernaut. Hence I give Juggernaut the majority, this is my simple logical chain. I honsetly dont understand yours.
Sg beat Thanos of panel and it's not recognized anyways. Spiderman isn't in Hulk's league while Hulk is in Juggernaut's. Just because you give extreme examples that doesn't cut the mustard here. Hulk was a mega threat and one beyond some idiot like the Juggernaut. If the point of their confrontation was WW Hulk was out his league why was he standing toe to toe with him?
Strange can beat Hulk if he wants to but Juggs isn't Strange. I accept the fact that someone with all the options that Strange has can easily defeat the Hulk and it was even stated in the comic. The only reason Hulk beat him is he outsmarted him and Strange came back merged with some evil force he couldn't control.
The writer stated they were going toe to toe with strength and the damage was being redirected underground. If Juggs was stronger he would have won but they were portrayed as equals with a mildy irritated Hulk, nothing more. Wow.
When has Juggs grabbed someone and siomply launched them into space? At this point I don't even know if you read these comics. Hulk learned combat on Sakaar an dhow to focus much better and control himself much greater an dremain focused. Juggs focus was so off he was easily bfr'd so no it's not a spelling bee but we've already seen how stupid Juggs can be in combat an dhow overmatched he is.
WW Hulk beat him again at his best so again you have nothing. Juggs taking him on at half or less of his full power just shows how stupid the man is. WW Hulk matched him easily and showed more focus and easily dismissed Juggs.
We've already seen him bfr Juggs so we know it's possible so I already gave you an example of how he does so. The other example is getting angry enough to just beat him up. I have stated this from the beginning and common sense along with the actual showing from ww hulk backs me up. WW Hulk all day.
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33I really don't like this new gimmick of yours you trying to be humorous. It's not in you. You seem as witty as the character you seem to enjoy. If you think a guy who claims Juggs rockets him into space for the majority is winning please think again.
Quan, bow out gracefully.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I really don't like this new gimmick of yours you trying to be humorous. It's not in you. You seem as witty as the character you seem to enjoy. If you think a guy who claims Juggs rockets him into space for the majority is winning please think again.
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Quan, bow out gracefully.
Originally posted by Omega VisionRelax child. Now explain to me what I have stated that's incorrect in this thread. we come here to debate not complain and flare up with anger in every thread.
facepalm
Nice quick edit to cover up the insult. The mods can still see what you edited it from by the way.
Originally posted by quanchi112In other words examples that are convenient to you you recognise but the ones you dont like you ignore. Hulk might as well be as strong as Luke Cage because his punches would be equelly useless against Juggernaut's shields. So your "he's in the league" doesnt make it less of a BS excuse since he just like anyone else cant hurt Juggernaut physically. As fr bfr it doesnt even take Colossus level of strength to sidestep like that, yet I doubt you'd give Colossus the win. So what's the difference? Colossus also might bfr Juggs the same and his attacks would also be useless against Juggs. He also takes the majority in your book? Truth is that was a PISy excuse to save Hulk's ass from beating. Sorry, but its either one way or another, either admit that was PIS or accept all bad writing and PIS events for a fact and never argue against say SG being >>> Thanos on the forum since it "happened" in the book.
He bfr'd him to beat him. That's what happened and it was eezy peezy. Bottom line is it occurred and isn't pis by any means.Sg beat Thanos of panel and it's not recognized anyways. Spiderman isn't in Hulk's league while Hulk is in Juggernaut's. Just because you give extreme examples that doesn't cut the mustard here. Hulk was a mega threat and one beyond some idiot like the Juggernaut. If the point of their confrontation was WW Hulk was out his league why was he standing toe to toe with him?
Originally posted by quanchi112And that doesn't scream PIS to you?😬 Seriously? Again. Strange - snaps fingers. Hulk - dies. Anything beyond that and especially Hulk winning - happens for the sake of a story.
Strange can beat Hulk if he wants to but Juggs isn't Strange. I accept the fact that someone with all the options that Strange has can easily defeat the Hulk and it was even stated in the comic. The only reason Hulk beat him is he outsmarted him and Strange came back merged with some evil force he couldn't control.
Originally posted by quanchi112Yeah, except Juggernaut DID overpower him. He was the one who pushed Hulk back, its a fact. They were standing and Juggernaut in order to make the first step had to push Hulk back and he did it. And Juggernaut would have won if it wasn't for the bfr and Hulk leaving because he was in a "rush" iow didn't want to get his ass kicked since he knows he cant do jack to Juggernaut. Also make up your mind sometimes you say Hulk is obviously stronger, then you say they were evenly matched in strength. I say Juggernaut was clearly shown to be stronger and the book back me up.
The writer stated they were going toe to toe with strength and the damage was being redirected underground. If Juggs was stronger he would have won but they were portrayed as equals with a mildy irritated Hulk, nothing more. Wow.
Originally posted by quanchi112And it takes years of karate training and learning space martial arts in order to just grab a physically inferior guy and toss him into space or another country?😬 Again, Juggernaut is physically capable of bfring Hulk just as ease or even easier and smarts has nothing to do with it, even mmore so has nothing to do with MA skills. So my qestion stands, please explain to me why is it impossible to bfr Hulk?
When has Juggs grabbed someone and siomply launched them into space? At this point I don't even know if you read these comics. Hulk learned combat on Sakaar an dhow to focus much better and control himself much greater an dremain focused. Juggs focus was so off he was easily bfr'd so no it's not a spelling bee but we've already seen how stupid Juggs can be in combat an dhow overmatched he is.
Originally posted by quanchi112Now you're just getting desperate, unless by "beat him again" you mean knocked him out with his bare hands, which he didn't, you got nothing. All he did was beat a depowered Juggs who was Colossus level at best. Yay for him, so there's no "again". There's only Juggernaut owning Hulk in the past, Juggernaut as easilly hurting WWH with his punches as he hurt any other Hulk and Hulk gettin his ass saved from Juggernaut via a ridiclulous bfr just so the hero of the story would make it to the end of the story alive. So this is another claim you'll have to back up- What makes you think Juggernaut cant ko Hulk physically seeing how his punches hurt him just like they hurt any other version of the Hulk?
WW Hulk beat him again at his best so again you have nothing. Juggs taking him on at half or less of his full power just shows how stupid the man is. WW Hulk matched him easily and showed more focus and easily dismissed Juggs.
Originally posted by quanchi112You repeating "WWH all day" without explaining it doesn't help your case either. It's as possible that Juggernaut will BFR Hulk and you failed to explain why that can't happen. We already established that your "happened in the book" argument can be said about lotsa stuff including SG owing Thanos so unless you can back your claim up there's no reason to believe that Juggernuat cant bfr Hulk, common sense says he can. As for "getting angry enough" argument no offence but its ridiculous and hundreds of miles away from "common sense". Its you speculation nothing else. You have no proof that WWH can physically get through the cytorak spell, through shields and invulnerability when attacks well beyong Hulk's punches failed to do so. Even concidering that as an option screams "bias". Again, ill repeat myself givving you another chance to try and prove any of it wrong:
We've already seen him bfr Juggs so we know it's possible so I already gave you an example of how he does so. The other example is getting angry enough to just beat him up. I have stated this from the beginning and common sense along with the actual showing from ww hulk backs me up. WW Hulk all day.
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