Pokeverse v.s. FFverse

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
I'm not a FF fanboy. I just don't believe nonsense like Giratina raping the FFverse since it shows no capability of doing so and Arceus being uber since it showed nothing at the level of Sin.

But you're basing all of that on anime, and doing so in an incredibly ignorant fashion.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Water magic in FF causes damage and not just against enemies that are weak against it. Charizard in submerged in water in the anime? According to you, that's the weaker version when in reality. In the games, that's different.

I know, right? So when the anime < Games, imagine game Charizard. Truthfully, this happens to be an occasion where the anime doesn't contradict the games.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
It's still a fire type.

Point?

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Are we picking games or the anime? CHoose one and stick with it. In the games, Mewtwo would get heavily damaged by a Shadow Ball. Darkja is stronger than Shadow Ball and causes blindness and possible Instant Death.

Why do I have to pick one? Both are part of the canon. Your problem was you keep wanting the anime to override the games. Not how it works.

And no, MewTwo is not heavily damaged by any Shadow Ball. 😬 For one, it takes something with ability in special attacks. Without the opponent being good at it, he'd shrug it off if he even let it hit him.

Instant Death would probably fall under a no limits deal. Prove it's stronger than a Shadow Ball, too.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
It damages anybody unless they have immunity to it.

So no force behind it? Cool, they'll go for a swim.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
No, it is a game mechanic. Do you honestly believe Tauros can use a horn attack better than Nidoking just because it's a normal type?

Lol, yeah. Especially since Tauros is stronger.

Sin, unless the OP specified, games are the absolute and deflaut cannon here. Anime is not used at all unless specifed. ScreamPaste had already confirmed that anime is not to be used so any further continuation of it is consider irrelevent or trolling.

So stop trying to use it as a canon.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
But you're basing all of that on anime, and doing so in an incredibly ignorant fashion.

In the games, the cosmic Pokemon are even weaker and could be taken down by non-legendaries.

I know, right? So when the anime < Games, imagine game Charizard. Truthfully, this happens to be an occasion where the anime doesn't contradict the games.

Yes it does. Charizard cannot survive being submerged in water.

Point?

It would have some resistance to lava.

Why do I have to pick one? Both are part of the canon. Your problem was you keep wanting the anime to override the games. Not how it works.

Mewtwo is weaker in the games. 1 Megahorn can cripple it and it would lose in 1 on 1 fight against Tyranitar.

And no, MewTwo is not heavily damaged by any Shadow Ball. 😬 For one, it takes something with ability in special attacks. Without the opponent being good at it, he'd shrug it off if he even let it hit him.

Except this Mew using it. In the games, it has pretty high stats and would do some damage with a Shadow Ball.

Instant Death would probably fall under a no limits deal. Prove it's stronger than a Shadow Ball, too.

YouTube video

YouTube video

So no force behind it? Cool, they'll go for a swim.

It does have force. Why do you think the FFX party get damaged when Seymour uses it?

Lol, yeah. Especially since Tauros is stronger.

Nidoking's horn pierces through diamond. Tauros can't.

In the games, the cosmic Pokemon are even weaker and could be taken down by non-legendaries.

Yes it does. Charizard cannot survive being submerged in water.

It would have some resistance to lava.

Mewtwo is weaker in the games. 1 Megahorn can cripple it and it would lose in 1 on 1 fight against Tyranitar.

MewTwo in the games is one of the few pokemon with a deific stat distribution.

Except this Mew using it. In the games, it has pretty high stats and would do some damage with a Shadow Ball.

Also, posting a video of pokemon battle revolution wifi battles is somehow proof shadowball is less powerfull? I had some EXTREME lulz. Your argument sucks, and is baseless.

Nidoking's horn pierces through diamond. Tauros can't.

In conclusion: Your arguments all suck. They're based on gameplay, or inconsistencies in the anime which are dismissed by the superior canon of the games. You use a bunch of baseless assumptions and makes claims that FF > without any actual logic behind that stance other than "FF looks kooler". 😬

Your own side agrees your arguments suck. Rethink them and come back. 😐

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
In the games, the cosmic Pokemon are even weaker and could be taken down by non-legendaries.

Let's use some more of that there gameplay, yeah?

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Yes it does. Charizard cannot survive being submerged in water.

Unless, you know, he had done it before.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
It would have some resistance to lava.

The lava isn't what we were using it for, lol. You put out normal flames by smothering it, you know that, right? Charizard's flame > normal flame.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Mewtwo is weaker in the games. 1 Megahorn can cripple it and it would lose in 1 on 1 fight against Tyranitar.

Hardly. MewTwo uses Aura Sphere. The two are in separate tiers for a reason. Use more gameplay. 👆

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Except this Mew using it. In the games, it has pretty high stats and would do some damage with a Shadow Ball.

Good job reiterating what I already said. It takes some ability to hurt him with a shadow ball.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
It does have force. Why do you think the FFX party get damaged when Seymour uses it?

Maybe they can't swim? Maybe it's because you're using gameplay which means they can't move from that specific spot unless it's their turn?

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Nidoking's horn pierces through diamond. Tauros can't.

I actually based that on stats, which was bad. However, Nidoking's horn is merely hard enough. It doesn't mean he is stronger.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Maybe they can't swim? Maybe it's because you're using gameplay which means they can't move from that specific spot unless it's their turn?

Water (The spell) can hurt Tidus, and he plays Blitzball, aka Drowning Ball. He can literally sleep underwater.

Thought Blitz Ball was anti-gravity. 😐

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol? You mean the cosmic pokemon who come this || close to destroying and remaking the entire universe, individually, in the games?

Where's your proof that they did? How do you think those Pokemon were defeated? Did the player have to sing songs to make it go away.

Been disproven, stop repeating yourself.

That was the anime. You proved nothing outside of it.

There's no oxygen in lava to sustain a flame, it would be just as fdangerous to him as water, if not more so.

Yet Pokemon like Magmar and Magcargo have lava elements and still are considered fire type. Charizard would have resistance.

You're using gameplay mechanics, and you're still wrong. 😐 I've stalled out Tyranitars with my MewTwo before, and killed them with freakin' flamethrower which Tyranitar resists. Conversely, MewTwo has aurasphere which is 4x effective, and is faster by about base 80 speed which translates into something like an extra 200 in the stat?

Also, posting a video of pokemon battle revolution wifi battles is somehow proof shadowball is less powerfull? I had some EXTREME lulz. Your argument sucks, and is baseless.

Shadow Ball is just a glob of shadow shot at the foe. Darkja is much more damage (over 8000) than that and can inflict blindness or instant death. That's still weaker than his Banishing Ray which does 1000 more damage. Just remember that Zodiark is so powerful that he had to remain the rest of its life as a child.

Firstly, megahorn is a bug type attack, not a normal type attack, and secondly you're using a terrible example along with terrible logic to try and dismiss the idea that pokemon of a specific type are better at using those types of moves. Why would a normal type be better at breathing fire thna a fire type? Makes no sense.

Why would Kabutops' Slash attack be weaker than Persian's Slash? Kabutops has scythe arms.

There is no normal type that can naturally learn Flamethrower outside of a tutor. This is not like having Mewtwo learn Aura Ball and Shadow Ball or Rhydon learning Mega Horn.

In conclusion: Your arguments all suck. They're based on gameplay, or inconsistencies in the anime which are dismissed by the superior canon of the games. You use a bunch of baseless assumptions and makes claims that FF > without any actual logic behind that stance other than "FF looks kooler". 😬

The canon of the games haven't proven that the cosmic Pokemon are planet busters or anywhere past that. And why would FF magics all of a sudden be non-canon? And why FF elemental magics have no effect on Pokemon? It's you who makes no sense. And I'm not basing my logic on FF looking kooler.

Your own side agrees your arguments suck. Rethink them and come back. 😐

Your arguments sucked way before I decided to revive the thread.

Maybe they can't swim? Maybe it's because you're using gameplay which means they can't move from that specific spot unless it's their turn?

Tidus and Wakka are both expert swimmers and are involved in a sport that requires players to be underwater for long periods of time. Rikku can also swim. Besides, having the ability to swim or not has nothing to do with surviving a water spell.

I actually based that on stats, which was bad. However, Nidoking's horn is merely hard enough. It doesn't mean he is stronger.

There's no proof that Tauros' horns are stronger than Nidoking's. Mewtwo has a higher attack stat than Machoke. Does that mean he can lift a sumo wrestler with one finger?

Where's your proof that they did? How do you think those Pokemon were defeated? Did the player have to sing songs to make it go away.

Giratina in platinum.

That was the anime. You proved nothing outside of it.

Yet Pokemon like Magmar and Magcargo have lava elements and still are considered fire type. Charizard would have resistance.

Shadow Ball is just a glob of shadow shot at the foe. Darkja is much more damage (over 8000)

You used gameplay mechanics as your evidence Darkja is stronger? Seriously, lol? You trollin'?
1. Darkja has no eveidence to support it's even the same /kind/ of dark as in pokemon.
2. Darkja is certainly not ghost type, either.
3. Got a feat for it? OVER EIGHT THOUSAND!11 isn't a feat, it's a gameplay number.

The canon of the games haven't proven that the cosmic Pokemon are planet busters or anywhere past that. And why would FF magics all of a sudden be non-canon? And why FF elemental magics have no effect on Pokemon? It's you who makes no sense. And I'm not basing my logic on FF looking kooler.

So, what /are/ you basing your arguments on? Absolutely nothing? Because that's what it sounds like. You have ten million assertions with no evidence to back them up and are intentionally underrating pokemon so badly it's kind of depressing.

There's no proof that Tauros' horns are stronger than Nidoking's. Mewtwo has a higher attack stat than Machoke. Does that mean he can lift a sumo wrestler with one finger?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Azelf, Mesprit, and Uxie.

Giratina in platinum.

Ok, I can accept that. They still have to deal with Ultimecia, Necron, Cloud of Darkness, Neo Exdeath, Hyne, and Cosmos.

And yet you use the anime in your arguments.

I wasn't using any anime today

Resistance to 0 oxygen environments? O RLY NOW? haermm

Alright then, Charizard has no resistance to lava. I wonder if there's any FF character that uses lava. 😖hifty:

BAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA.

You used gameplay mechanics as your evidence Darkja is stronger? Seriously, lol? You trollin'?
1. Darkja has no eveidence to support it's even the same /kind/ of dark as in pokemon.
2. Darkja is certainly not ghost type, either.
3. Got a feat for it? OVER EIGHT THOUSAND!11 isn't a feat, it's a gameplay number.

There's no other way to show which attack is stronger. If we use anime, Shadow Balls aren't even that strong.

Dark Pokemon attacks either deal with darkness and negativity or are just plain physical attacks (Crunch, Bite). Dark FF magic are embodiments of darkness used as an offensive. It will be as effective as Dark Pokemon attack just like a Blizzaga will be supereffective against a Venusaur.

I had some lulz. You didn't play pokemon, did you? Palkia and Dialga almost destroyed and remade the universe when Cyrus assembled the red chain from the Jewels he took from Azelf Uxie and Mesprit.

I didn't play anything after Generation 2. If you had gave me the Bulbapedia link to the Red Chain, I would've been convinced about Palkia and Dialga:

"The Red Chain is mentioned throughout the Team Galactic Headquarters in Veilstone City, during the player's infiltration late in the game. Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn succeed in capturing Mesprit, Uxie, and Azelf, respectively, bringing them to the Headquarters, where Charon extracts the gems from their bodies to create the Red Chain.

Cyrus duplicates the chain through technological means (it is not explained how, just that it was done), and, despite being defeated by the player, travels with Mars, Jupiter, and a plethora of Grunts to Spear Pillar at the top of Mt. Coronet, blasting away a priceless, ancient painting that depicts the creation of Sinnoh to get there.

Mars and Jupiter manage to hold both the player and his or her rival back just long enough for Cyrus to summon both Dialga and Palkia, bringing them under his control. Though the lake guardians attempt to interfere, the power of the two legendary Dragons is far too much, and nothing can be done. Giratina, enraged, and feeling the oncoming destruction of the Pokémon world from its own world, creates a portal between the two in front of Cyrus, breaking his hold over Dialga and Palkia, and draws him into the Distortion World to prevent further destruction of the dual universes. All is still not well, however, and although Cyrus has been stopped and the Red Chains destroyed, the very fabric of spacetime is in danger due to Giratina's portal between the two worlds, leaving it up to the player to find and defeat Cyrus one last time and close the portal between the worlds to prevent their mutual annihilation"

This is all the evidence I need.

Actually, Machamp's attack stat is higher by 20, still, for MewTwo to lift a sumo wrestler with one finger would be a patheticly easy feat. 😬 Wth?

It's Machoke and Mewtwo has no evidence of that kind of superstrength or any. Without TK.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Ok, I can accept that. They still have to deal with Ultimecia, Necron, Cloud of Darkness, Neo Exdeath, Hyne, and Cosmos.

So which ones of those are the Void? They're the only ones that matter.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Alright then, Charizard has no resistance to lava. I wonder if there's any FF character that uses lava. 😖hifty:

You crazy? Your entire point to Charizard was saying he dies if his tail flame goes out. So how did you get a zero resistance to lava out of that?

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
There's no other way to show which attack is stronger. If we use anime, Shadow Balls aren't even that strong.

Dark Pokemon attacks either deal with darkness and negativity or are just plain physical attacks (Crunch, Bite). Dark FF magic are embodiments of darkness used as an offensive. It will be as effective as Dark Pokemon attack just like a Blizzaga will be supereffective against a Venusaur.

Your method is incredibly flawed. For one, FF stat limits are much higher than Pokemon's. Not because they're more powerful, that would be a retarded assumption. All it means is that the math behind the numbers is different, as is how the stats relate.

So, somehow out of all that you'd still think FF Dark is the same as Pokemon Dark? And I'm sorry, but if FF attacks are going to benefit from types, they are going to play the whole game and be disadvantaged by types. As in, if they were the same Darkness, Fighting and Bug are super effective against them.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
I didn't play anything after Generation 2. If you had gave me the Bulbapedia link to the Red Chain, I would've been convinced about Palkia and Dialga:

This is all the evidence I need.

I had told you already.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
It's Ma[b]choke and Mewtwo has no evidence of that kind of superstrength or any. Without TK. [/B]

Stats aren't always going to reflect total abilities, because Pokemon stats can only go so high. Slaking does not have the same strength level as Regigigas, despite having the same attack stat.

Regigigas still has a high attack stat because he's so strong, but that's all. Having a stat at that level does not mean you have continent transporting strength.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
So which ones of those are the Void? They're the only ones that matter.

Neo Exdeath since he's the manifestation of the Void (and that's the reason he looks twisted and disturbing).

You crazy? Your entire point to Charizard was saying he dies if his tail flame goes out. So how did you get a zero resistance to lava out of that?

I said resistance not immunity.

Your method is incredibly flawed. For one, FF stat limits are much higher than Pokemon's. Not because they're more powerful, that would be a retarded assumption. All it means is that the math behind the numbers is different, as is how the stats relate.

So, somehow out of all that you'd still think FF Dark is the same as Pokemon Dark? And I'm sorry, but if FF attacks are going to benefit from types, they are going to play the whole game and be disadvantaged by types. As in, if they were the same Darkness, Fighting and Bug are super effective against them.

You're ignoring the obvious. It's Pokemon that have those weaknesses while FF has different ones. If things were made neutral, Pikachu would explode when put into water. Don't be in denial that there is a FF monster that can kill Mewtwo in one attack (or at least injure it).

I had told you already.

It was vague 😠

Stats aren't always going to reflect total abilities, because Pokemon stats can only go so high. Slaking does not have the same strength level as Regigigas, despite having the same attack stat.

Regigigas pulling continents is a myth.

Regigigas still has a high attack stat because he's so strong, but that's all. Having a stat at that level does not mean you have continent transporting strength.

Myth

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Neo Exdeath since he's the manifestation of the Void (and that's the reason he looks twisted and disturbing).

K.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
I said resistance not immunity.

Yeah. And "zero resistance" means no resistance, which for some reason you jumped to Charizard having after Scream said "Resistance to environments with no oxygen? ORLY?"

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
You're ignoring the obvious. It's Pokemon that have those weaknesses while FF has different ones. If things were made neutral, Pikachu would explode when put into water. Don't be in denial that there is a FF monster that can kill Mewtwo in one attack (or at least injure it).

And you're missing the obvious, if for some reason they have the properties of Dark type in Pokemon, meaning they are super effective, they play by the rules of disadvantages as well, because, you know, they have the same properties as Dark type in Pokemon. One does not come without the other.

Pikachu actually does discharge a lot of electricity when thrown into water, but I think he can control it when he wants to. Even when he doesn't want to, it doesn't hurt him.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
It was vague 😠

Simple as "I don't know what the Red Chain is, explain it please."

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Regigigas pulling continents is a myth.

So is/was Groudon making continents, Kyogre filling the oceans, Lugia quelling the fighting of the three legendary birds, Palkia and Dialga controlling Space and Time, Giritina being banished to the Reverse World and Arceus' birth creating the universe. But wait, those are all true!

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Myth

See above.

So is/was Groudon making continents, Kyogre filling the oceans, Lugia quelling the fighting of the three legendary birds, Palkia and Dialga controlling Space and Time, Giritina being banished to the Reverse World and Arceus' birth creating the universe. But wait, those are all true!

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I challenge anyone to find me a myth in fiction that didn't turn out to be true, and isn't strictly for ironic purposes.

Define "myth".

Don't agree with the weakness thing. If a grass type is hit by fira it would be super effective. Not the other way round as some FF cast have their own weakness and resistances.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice

And you're missing the obvious, if for some reason they have the properties of Dark type in Pokemon, meaning they are super effective, they play by the rules of disadvantages as well, because, you know, they have the same properties as Dark type in Pokemon. One does not come without the other.

That makes no sense since there are Pokemon that use moves that are not of their type (i.e. Lugia with Hydro Pump and Electrode with Explosion).

Pikachu actually does discharge a lot of electricity when thrown into water, but I think he can control it when he wants to. Even when he doesn't want to, it doesn't hurt him.

Pikachu isn't weak against water so it wouldn't matter.

So is/was Groudon making continents, Kyogre filling the oceans, Lugia quelling the fighting of the three legendary birds, Palkia and Dialga controlling Space and Time, Giritina being banished to the Reverse World and Arceus' birth creating the universe. But wait, those are all true!

Well in that case, I'm gonna have to guess that Slaking just hits hard but doesn't have the strength. It's just like martial artists breaking stuff but not having the lifting power.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
That makes no sense since there are Pokemon that use moves that are not of their type (i.e. Lugia with Hydro Pump and Electrode with Explosion).

That doesn't make any difference to the argument. If for some reason Dark attacks in FF are strong against Pokemon, they have the same properties. If they have the same properties, they are weak against what Dark in Pokemon is weak against.

I'm not even talking about characters anymore. Even the attacks sharing the properties is good enough.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Pikachu isn't weak against water so it wouldn't matter.

Then why did you even bring it up?

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Well in that case, I'm gonna have to guess that Slaking just hits hard but doesn't have the strength. It's just like martial artists breaking stuff but not having the lifting power.

Or you could realize that stats don't have to perfectly represent EVERY Pokemon's abilities and it may merely be something given to them for game play purposes.

They still usually reflect abilities, but not necessarily in relation to other Pokemon.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
That doesn't make any difference to the argument. If for some reason Dark attacks in FF are strong against Pokemon, they have the same properties. If they have the same properties, they are weak against what Dark in Pokemon is weak against.

FF characters aren't Pokemon and can make supereffective hits on Pokemon. Fire Pokemon attacks would do more damage on Shiva than a Rock attack. Does that mean Fire Pokemon are weak against Ice now?

Then why did you even bring it up?

Because you and Scream keep bringing up that dumb effective/weakness thing.

You are either not getting it, or are just plain terrible with reading comprehension.

I am not talking about FF characters anymore.

If Dark FF attacks are strong against certain Pokemon, they are weak against certain Pokemon. Being strong means they would share the same properties as Dark type Pokemon attacks. If they share the same properties, they are also weak against other Pokemon types. One does not come without the other.